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Archive 2015 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory He...

naturephoto1
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p.1 #1 · p.1 #1 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

My new Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM was just delivered late this past Friday from the Leica Shop in Austria. I have begun to run some initial test on the lens which is being used on my just modified A7r by Kolar Vision with the thin sensor stack. I am mounting the lens on my Hawk's Factory Helicoid V5. I know that I need to run tests closer to infinity and to work on the proper color and WB with the new sensor mod. But, I have noticed for some closer work that the right corners in particular are not holding focus compared to the center and to the left corners. So I am not sure if this is an issue requiring shimming my Helicoid or if there is a problem with the lens (is it decenterd). I hope it is not the lens and this can be easily resolved; I don't want to have to exchange the lens in Austria.

So I have run a series of tests focusing on the large island in the center of my Kitchen. I focused on the screw of the outlet or the upper corners of the granite counter top at f1.4 and f5.6. The counter top extends beyond the flat surface of the Island "wood" finish. After the first tests and subsequent that are not posted, I moved the tripod and the camera again which you will see below and in the subsequent posts. I know that this is not a perfect test by any means, but it will give me an idea. I tried to position and to level and measure the distance from the tripod mounted camera (on the left and the right) from the flat surface of the Island.

The images of the set ups for the 6 set ups are posted in this and the subsequent post. The detailed 100% images are posted in the posts that follow the first 2 posts.

All Photos presented are as they were imported/exported from LR6 without any adjustments but the default settings. Sized in PS CS6 and posted as JPEG files and close shots at 100%.

I may have been off on some of the focusing. But, I hope that we can determine and resolve the issue. It is going to take me a little time to post all of the photos, so bear with me.

Rich

1st set-up f1.4. Focused on center screw of outlet

2nd set-up f5.6 Focused on center screw of outlet

3rd set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

4th set-up f5.6 Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

5th set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Edited on Nov 23, 2015 at 12:31 PM · View previous versions

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:23 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #2 · p.1 #2 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

This is the 6th set-up for review.

Rich

6th set-up f5.6. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:31 AM

Gary Clennan
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p.1 #3 · p.1 #3 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Hi Rich. I would be very surprised if it was an issue with the lens but I suppose anything could happen. LensRentals published (thanks Roger!) a great article on decentering and also a good test to check things out. I have used it and it works very well.... FYI.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/05/testing-for-a-decentered-lens-an-old-technique-gets-a-makeover

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:32 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #4 · p.1 #4 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Gary Clennan wrote:
Hi Rich. I would be very surprised if it was an issue with the lens but I suppose anything could happen. LensRentals published (thanks Roger!) a great article on decentering and also a good test to check things out. I have used it and it works very well.... FYI.

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/05/testing-for-a-decentered-lens-an-old-technique-gets-a-makeover

Hi Gary. Thanks I suspect so. I like the lens very much so far. But... Anyway, I am about to start to post all 5 100% positions in the next 6 posts. So bear with me.

Rich

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:36 AM

edwardkaraa
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p.1 #5 · p.1 #5 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I do see some minimal uneven sharpness between the left and right corners but I think it's not too serious to worry about. Impossible to tell if it's the lens or the adapter, unless you have access to an M body to test the lens, or another M mount lens to test the adapter. Anyhow if it was my lens, I would consider it within acceptable limits, but we all have different demands. The ultimate test would be wide open slanted horizon at infinity.

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:43 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #6 · p.1 #6 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

5 100% positions as shown in Set-up 1 in the first post are below.

Rich

1st set-up f1.4. Focused on center screw of outlet

Upper left corner 1st set-up f1.4. Focused on center screw of outlet

Upper Right corner 1st set-up f1.4. Focused on center screw of outlet

Lower Left corner 1st set-up f1.4. Focused on center screw of outlet

Lower Right corner 1st set-up f1.4. Focused on center screw of outlet

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:44 AM

hiepphotog
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p.1 #7 · p.1 #7 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich,

Assuming that you were parallel with the table, I think there are three factors that could cause this:

1. The lens: can you use another lens on the same set-up to see if the top right corner would have the same issue?

2. The adapter: do you have another adapter (Phigment?) that you can do the same test on?

3. The camera: this could be either the mount or the sensor. This would require you to make sure that it's not your adapter or lens that causes the problem. Ilija told me that he standardized the process to get the sensor's planarity right. I can say that the loaner A7RII I got doesn't have any issue.

Of course, there are combinations of the three above, but it would require more testings to say

.

You don't need to shim the Hawk's adapter. It has an adjustable infinity lock holding by two small screws. AFAIK, It's the only one on the market right now with this feature. Let us know how it goes.

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:47 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #8 · p.1 #8 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

5 100% positions as shown in Set-up 2 in the first post are below.

Rich

2nd set-up f5.6 Focused on center screw of outlet

Upper Left corner 2nd set-up f5.6 Focused on center screw of outlet

Upper Right corner 2nd set-up f5.6 Focused on center screw of outlet

Lower Left corner 2nd set-up f5.6 Focused on center screw of outlet

Lower Right corner 2nd set-up f5.6 Focused on center screw of outlet

Nov 23, 2015 at 10:59 AM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #9 · p.1 #9 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

As mentioned,you need to eliminate the variables one by one. I would start/test/suspect the adapter and then the body first.

Nov 23, 2015 at 11:02 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #10 · p.1 #10 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

5 100% positions as shown in Set-up 3 in the first post are below.

Rich

3rd set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Upper Left corner 3rd set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Upper Right corner 3rd set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Lower Left corner 3rd set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Lower Right corner 3rd set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Nov 23, 2015 at 11:19 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #11 · p.1 #11 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

5 100% positions as shown in Set-up 4 in the first post are below.

Rich

4th set-up f5.6 Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Upper Left corner 4th set-up f5.6 Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Upper Right corner 4th set-up f5.6 Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Lower Left corner 4th set-up f5.6 Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Lower Right corner 4th set-up f5.6 Focused on Granite Crystals of Left Corner of Counter Top

Nov 23, 2015 at 11:31 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #12 · p.1 #12 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

5 100% positions as shown in Set-up 5 in the first post are below.

Rich

5th set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Upper Left corner 5th set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Upper Right corner 5th set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Lower Left corner 5th set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Lower Right corner 5th set-up f1.4. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Nov 23, 2015 at 11:42 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #13 · p.1 #13 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

5 100% positions as shown in Set-up 6 in the second post are below.

Rich

6th set-up f5.6. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Upper Left corner 6th set-up f5.6. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Upper Right corner 6th set-up f5.6. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Lower Left corner 6th set-up f5.6. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Lower Right corner 6th set-up f5.6. Focused on Granite Crystals of Right Corner of Counter Top

Nov 23, 2015 at 11:50 AM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #14 · p.1 #14 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

hiepphotog wrote:
Rich,

Assuming that you were parallel with the table, I think there are three factors that could cause this:

1. The lens: can you use another lens on the same set-up to see if the top right corner would have the same issue?

2. The adapter: do you have another adapter (Phigment?) that you can do the same test on?

3. The camera: this could be either the mount or the sensor. This would require you to make sure that it's not your adapter or lens that causes the problem. Ilija told me that he standardized the process to get the sensor's planarity right....Show more →

---------------------------------------------

Tariq Gibran wrote:
As mentioned,you need to eliminate the variables one by one. I would start/test/suspect the adapter and then the body first.

Actually I have 2 other adapters on which t I can check the lens. I have the Phigment adapter as well as an older Hawk's Factory Helicoid V2.5. The older Helicoid is a little tighter on the lens than I would like but I can try it just the same. In any event, I can try the lens on the other adapters as well as other lenses on the Hawk's Factory Helicoid V5. I had forgotten about being able to make the adjustments on this adapter. I never got a straight answer as to how to adjust the infinity stop for the adapter from the manufacturer unfortunately.

But, I can try these variables. I do not intend to go into the kind of depth and time that I did for this initial round, but I can certainly try. I will also have to try on some distance checks of the lens though it may not be at infinity.

Any other suggestions and observations would be most appreciated.

Rich

Nov 23, 2015 at 12:00 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #15 · p.1 #15 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
---------------------------------------------

Actually I have 2 other adapters on which t I can check the lens. I have the Phigment adapter as well as an older Hawk's Factory Helicoid V2.5. The older Helicoid is a little tighter on the lens than I would like but I can try it just the same. In any event, I can try the lens on the other adapters as well as other lenses on the Hawk's Factory Helicoid V5. I had forgotten about being able to make the adjustments on this adapter. I never got a straight answer as to how to adjust the infinity stop...Show more →

Try some of your other "known" good lenses on the body since the lobotomy of the A7r, particularly the R28. That should maybe give an indication if there is an alignment issue with the sensor or mount that developed since you had it worked on.

You also need to do a distance, infinity test - as you mention - as what you see in your examples may change dramatically at normal shooting distances.

Nov 23, 2015 at 12:11 PM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #16 · p.1 #16 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Tariq Gibran wrote:
Try some of your other "known" good lenses on the body since the lobotomy of the A7r, particularly the R28. That should maybe give an indication if there is an alignment issue with the sensor or mount that developed since you had it worked on.

You also need to do a distance, infinity test - as you mention - as what you see in your examples may change dramatically at normal shooting distances.

Hi Tariq,

That is a good idea. But scientifically speaking that is 2 variable at once. In this case, I am checking both another lens as well as a different adapter (R adapter rather than an M adapter). But, I will try it. I guess that I can also check my WATE since it too uses the same adapters as the Zeiss 35mm. But, I may not see the difference as much as the 35mm because of the focal length difference. I guess that I could also check my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 M-Rokkor as well. The corners should have improved with the sensor modification and it uses the M adapters.

Rich

Nov 23, 2015 at 12:22 PM

hiepphotog
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p.1 #17 · p.1 #17 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
---------------------------------------------

Actually I have 2 other adapters on which t I can check the lens. I have the Phigment adapter as well as an older Hawk's Factory Helicoid V2.5. The older Helicoid is a little tighter on the lens than I would like but I can try it just the same. In any event, I can try the lens on the other adapters as well as other lenses on the Hawk's Factory Helicoid V5. I had forgotten about being able to make the adjustments on this adapter. I never got a straight answer as to how to adjust the infinity stop...Show more →

Rich,

So you don't have a horizon around your place? For this test, you only need to shoot at WO so it would be quick. I would:

1. Use different adapters with the same lens (i.e. ZM 35/1.4) and camera: If the corners are different between adapters, the adapter would be one of the contributors.

2. If there is no change or little difference, you can try different lenses on an adapter with the most even performance. If the top right corner's softness is consistent, it's the camera. If not, it's the lens.

For each combination above, you need to either take 1 shot or 2 shots (if doing slanted infinity). It would test less than half and hour to figure out the culprit, or at least the main one.

I'll post a quick visual guide on how to adjust the Hawk's adapter later today if you need one.

Nov 23, 2015 at 12:59 PM

zhangyue
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p.1 #18 · p.1 #18 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

Rich, shooting WO at infinity is quick way to test lens decenter or not to avoid setup error. With more than one lens, adapter, you can easily tell if it is a body issue, adapter issue or Lens issue.

Nov 23, 2015 at 01:31 PM

Tariq Gibran
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p.1 #19 · p.1 #19 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

naturephoto1 wrote:
Hi Tariq,

That is a good idea. But scientifically speaking that is 2 variable at once. In this case, I am checking both another lens as well as a different adapter (R adapter rather than an M adapter). But, I will try it. I guess that I can also check my WATE since it too uses the same adapters as the Zeiss 35mm. But, I may not see the difference as much as the 35mm because of the focal length difference. I guess that I could also check my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 M-Rokkor as well. The corners should have...Show more →

Yeah, it's just a datapoint which might be helpful if you already knew how those lenses performed on the body before you had it modded. The ultimate test for the lens though would be use on a native M body which should immediately reveal if the lens has the issue.

Nov 23, 2015 at 01:34 PM

naturephoto1
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p.1 #20 · p.1 #20 · Possible issues with Zeiss 35mm f1.4ZM or need to shim Hawk's Factory Helicoid

I have run more tests at this point. I do not think that I could have made the same error so many times. I have now run similar tests with my new Zeiss 35mm f1.4 Distagon ZM and my Minolta CLE MC 40mm f2 M-Rokkor lenses mounted on my Phigment adapter that Paul had adjusted for me to my Minolta lens as well as my Leica R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 lens. I believe that in every case the upper right corner is softer thus indicating to me that it appears that the problem is the camera. That is the sensor is not perfectly aligned. I will run more tests to confirm this.

From my observations, the Zeiss 35mm f1.4 ZM is extremely sharp on the modified sensor. By f5.6 focusing on the screw of the outlet there is sufficient DOF to cover the extreme sharpness into the corners of the left corner and not quite as well to the right corner (it is getting closer, but I believe the sensor is not quite aligned), The Minolta CLE MC 40mm lens can not keep up with the Zeiss at f5.6 and I will need to test both lenses at f8 and even f11. The Minolta is also probably not as sharp in the center as the Zeiss but it is absolutely tiny and light.

I have to better support the Leica R 28mm f2.8 Elmarit V2 wuth my left hand with the longer adapter for the purpose of smoother focus. Also, due to the field curvature of the lens focusing on the screw of the outlet does not result in as sharp an image in the corner as the Zeiss at f5.6. It might at f8 and f11, but I have to test that. When focusing the lens on the edge of the Granite counter top the crystals are quite sharp though not quite as sharp on the right corner. Additionally the screw of the outlet is also sharp focusing this way.

Rich

Nov 23, 2015 at 02:54 PM

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