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Archive 2015 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...

  
 
Bijltje
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p.25 #1 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Tried the SL yesterday at store. Works great with the M lenses and in size and weight doesn't feel that different from the M240 with M lenses.
The viewfinder is impressive and seemed in size as big as the S viewfinder.
The top display works great.
Build is very good. I wish the A7 build quality was 1/2 the quality of the SL.



The 24-90 lens is huge. Image quality looked great but I don't see myself walking around with so much weight.

What I found intressting is the T lens 18-56. It fits the SL great, makes it compact and good to handle. If you like me only need a 24-90 equalivent AF lens for special occasions were there is no time to change a lens, or because the girlfriend doesn't like to manual focus it can be a great alternative to the big 24-90.

Of course no full frame but cropmodus since its a crop lens.

According to the shopowner I wasn't the only one who tried this combo. It feels like a very logical combination.



Nov 11, 2015 at 08:25 AM
hiepphotog
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p.25 #2 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


rscheffler wrote:
Edward, reading some comments over at LUF and it would seem the SL vs. M 28 Lux performance difference is very slight. But then, I'm not subscribed to Read's reviews and can't say whether someone else's 'slight' is the same as how I would interpret it.

I wonder if it could hint at future M sensor trends... I.e. gradual easing away from sub 1mm thicknesses, or to support a dust-shake feature, which some seem to want. But that wouldn't be a good thing for most current M users with a range of glass that benefits from current sub 1mm thickness


The current M240 is already at 1mm. Personally, I think Leica is just finding an optimal thickness to play well enough with legacy M lenses while having less chance of breakage and better UV/IR rejection. The stack thickness on the SL might very be on the next M.
---------------------------------------------

edwardkaraa wrote:
The point is, we don't know yet how they compare at infinity. The difference could be accentuated, reduced, or completely reversed. However, from my own perspective, the difference at close range is less important because one rarely shoots planar subjects up close, but considering the price of the lens, and that it is an M lens after all, I would have expected exactly the opposite results. This said, I don't think Leica will sacrifice all previous M glass for the sake of one, so probably it was just easier for them to design the 28 lux this way, or maybe
...Show more

Having shot extensively M-lenses on sub-optimal platform , I have not observed any change drastic change in field curvature (such as going from bowing out to bowing in or vice versa). What I see is that the closer the focus, the less apparent DOF, the more pronounced that field curvature seems to be (make sense).

However, "better" is such a relative term. Is it only visible under pixel-peep and direct comparison? K-H and I did a comparison between the stock A7RII vs. mod on various lenses (including the 28 Elmarit and Cron 35), and the results seem to be similar to what Jono is getting on his SL. For users that can gell with Sony system, the cost of the mod plus a Sony body still offers a higher performance/price ratio (not necessary value).



Nov 11, 2015 at 10:16 AM
naturephoto1
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p.25 #3 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


hiepphotog wrote:
The current M240 is already at 1mm. Personally, I think Leica is just finding an optimal thickness to play well enough with legacy M lenses while having less chance of breakage and better UV/IR rejection. The stack thickness on the SL might very be on the next M.
---------------------------------------------

Having shot extensively M-lenses on sub-optimal platform , I have not observed any change drastic change in field curvature (such as going from bowing out to bowing in or vice versa). What I see is that the closer the focus, the less apparent DOF, the more pronounced that field curvature seems to be
...Show more

Somewhat off topic, but you didn't happen to try the 35mm Summarit on the modded A7r did you?

Thanks.

Rich



Nov 11, 2015 at 10:26 AM
airfrogusmc
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p.25 #4 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


I'm hoping that Leica releases an M-E with the new CMOSIS censor. I want less automation. Keep it simple and gadget free. We already have gadget heavy choices. Nice to have a choice that is really different.


Nov 11, 2015 at 10:56 AM
hiepphotog
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p.25 #5 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


naturephoto1 wrote:
Somewhat off topic, but you didn't happen to try the 35mm Summarit on the modded A7r did you?

Thanks.

Rich


Sorry, haven't tried that one.



Nov 11, 2015 at 11:04 AM
rscheffler
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p.25 #6 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Hiep, I was aware the M240 stack was slightly thicker, but thought it was still just below 1mm. Not that it probably makes a huge difference. IR contamination is IMO still a problem with the M240 (it has been a problem for me on some wedding shoots) and I see telltale signs of it in some of the SL DNGs I've processed.

Mitch, whatever color profile tweaks Leica applies to the final production SLs, I doubt it will be a considerable change from what we're seeing now. Proper color profile support in Lightroom and C1 will likely make more of a difference, but IMO, from processing the early SL DNGs, it reminds me a lot more of the M240 than the M9. I'd say it reminds me 80% of the M240 and very little, if anything, of the M9.

Bijltje wrote:
What I found intressting is the T lens 18-56. It fits the SL great, makes it compact and good to handle. If you like me only need a 24-90 equalivent AF lens for special occasions were there is no time to change a lens, or because the girlfriend doesn't like to manual focus it can be a great alternative to the big 24-90.


Robert, thanks for the hands-on report. Sounds similar to Adam's in some respects. I think the biggest problem with the 18-56 is spending 1450 Euro on a rather unsexy 'kit' lens just to have a 10MP crop. Of course 10MP is fine for social snaps, etc., as you're suggesting. Just reinforces to me that I think the SL would combine nicely with a few relatively compact Summicron SL primes.

Steve Spencer wrote:
Hi Edward,

Thanks for posting the link to the Leica forum thread. I found the examples from the three lenses tested there helpful, but I was surprised by how much the difference between the SL and the A7 II varied. With the 28 elmarit ASPH, neither lens was all that great even at f/8 and although the SL was clearly better the difference wasn't as dramatic as i expected. If 100% were an ideal image, I would say the SL was 60% and the A7 II was 30%. With the 35 summicron ASPH the difference in the cameras was striking.
...Show more

I think a risk is we're seeing only extreme corner crops. It does allow us to compare the SL vs. a7II but definitely ignores aspects that can be influenced by sensor topping thickness, such as mid zone and edges. From the comparisons I did with the M9 and M240 against the first generation unmodded a7 cameras, mid zone characteristics definitely shifted somewhat on the Sonys vs. the Leicas.

While the corners of the 35 Cron ASPH look better than the 28/2.8 I wonder if it will be the same story for the mid zone, which likely is more important to overall imaging characteristics? Based on MTFs, this is where the 35 Cron seems to suffer compared to the 28/2.8.

But I agree, just like with the Sony cameras, it appears it will be a case of examining each lens individually on the SL to determine whether or not it meets your requirements.



Nov 11, 2015 at 11:26 AM
adamdewilde
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p.25 #7 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


rscheffler wrote:
Hiep, I was aware the M240 stack was slightly thicker, but thought it was still just below 1mm. Not that it probably makes a huge difference. IR contamination is IMO still a problem with the M240 (it has been a problem for me on some wedding shoots) and I see telltale signs of it in some of the SL DNGs I've processed.

Mitch, whatever color profile tweaks Leica applies to the final production SLs, I doubt it will be a considerable change from what we're seeing now. Proper color profile support in Lightroom and C1 will likely make more of
...Show more


It's not my fault if my groom wears a cheap suit. None of my suits or tuxes have IR contamination problems.



Nov 11, 2015 at 02:00 PM
rscheffler
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p.25 #8 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Haha... one of the weddings I shot this year (as a second) was a very, very wealthy family... and the lapel of the groom's very expensive tux (deep navy blue), shifted color in many M240 images. Just the lapel... Wasn't a problem with my Canon images. Caused some extra PP headache for the guy I shot this for...

But yeah, I've done weddings where the guys did a group buy to save money on their suits, and had similar problems...



Nov 11, 2015 at 02:22 PM
adamdewilde
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p.25 #9 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


rscheffler wrote:
Haha... one of the weddings I shot this year (as a second) was a very, very wealthy family... and the lapel of the groom's very expensive tux (deep navy blue), shifted color in many M240 images. Just the lapel... Wasn't a problem with my Canon images. Caused some extra PP headache for the guy I shot this for...

But yeah, I've done weddings where the guys did a group buy to save money on their suits, and had similar problems...


Truthfully, I've had this happen with a few high end grooms. Lapels (even on nice tuxes) can be problematic. I was more just being funny with you :P

(My tux and bowties don't have this issue, but I'm funny about having natural fibres for everything I own)



Nov 11, 2015 at 02:57 PM
Steve Spencer
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p.25 #10 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


rscheffler wrote:
Hiep, I was aware the M240 stack was slightly thicker, but thought it was still just below 1mm. Not that it probably makes a huge difference. IR contamination is IMO still a problem with the M240 (it has been a problem for me on some wedding shoots) and I see telltale signs of it in some of the SL DNGs I've processed.

Mitch, whatever color profile tweaks Leica applies to the final production SLs, I doubt it will be a considerable change from what we're seeing now. Proper color profile support in Lightroom and C1 will likely make more of
...Show more

Ron, I think your are definitely right about seeing more than the corners. For example, I would expect the 50 lux ASPH to have a substantial mid zone dip at f/4 even though its corners looked quite good. The same for the 35 cron ASPH, but I am still optimistic from these examples. More tests with more cameras would be great, but as you must know doing such tests is a lot to ask, so I am happy with whatever people are willing to show. You certainly did a great job with your early tests on the Sony cameras (and that is very much appreciated), but not everyone is going to be willing to put that much work into the effort. I think gradually over time, however, we will learn more.



Nov 11, 2015 at 04:30 PM
davewolfs
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p.25 #11 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Any reason why we cant post a screenshot from Reid's site to show the comparison of the elmarit?

I don't recall reading a disclaimer.



Nov 11, 2015 at 09:18 PM
JonPB
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p.25 #12 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


davewolfs wrote:
Any reason why we cant post a screenshot from Reid's site to show the comparison of the elmarit?

I don't recall reading a disclaimer.


davewolfs implied:
Any reason why we cant steal Reid's work product and livelihood?


I think that sums up my opinion on the matter.

Sincerely,
Jon



Nov 11, 2015 at 09:34 PM
k-h.a.w
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p.25 #13 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


If and to what degree is the Leica SL sensor ISOless? TIA.



Nov 11, 2015 at 10:52 PM
Mitch Alland
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p.25 #14 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Very interesting review by Kristian Dowling (part 2) here.

He considers the VARIO-ELMARIT-SL 24-90mm lens far better than most competing lenses — and those only cover the 24–70mm focal range. On color, from the SL he writes:

This is where I get really excited. The colour coming from the SL is the best I’ve seen from any 35mm system camera to date. Everything from skin tones to skies and landscapes come out with great accuracy and more importantly, consistency from the AWB sensor. It’s theoretically impossible for a white balance sensor to be accurate all the time, just like an exposure meter, but the SL gets pretty close to it, in many different lighting situations...Like other recent Leica cameras, there is a slight lean towards the orange spectrum, so I reduce the orange-channel saturation a little, to get...Show more

The red-orange issue that he refers to in the last sentence echoes what Ron Scheffler wrote earlier in this thread (i.e., somewhat like that of the color rendition of the M240) — and makes me skeptical of the statement that the SL color "is the best" of "any 35m system to date". All this raises the M9 vs M240 color rendition question, on which many people are divided. I take it that the latest SL profile in Lightroom 6.3 still doesn't solve the red-orange tint for skin tones. I'll be interested to see what comes out if all this.

Edited on Nov 24, 2015 at 10:13 AM · View previous versions



Nov 24, 2015 at 06:17 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.25 #15 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


I love the shots with the Noctilux in part 2 of the Dowling review. It is clear some firmware fixes are in order, but I am still very impressed by this camera.


Nov 24, 2015 at 08:49 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.25 #16 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Yes, those Noct shots are superb! The more I see from this camera, the more I want one. Not sure if I need one but I certainly would love to own one.... Maybe on Black Friday it will be on for 50% off.


Nov 24, 2015 at 10:30 AM
clmusic
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p.25 #17 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


^ Gary, you forgot that you are a RICH dentist. Rich dentists do not care about BF discount

Joking aside, I am too very impressive with the color from this camera. I have some nice R lenses (19 V2, 28 V2, 50 E60, 180 APO, ) that I really want to try on this camera. Colors from my Nikon Df are not so impressive.



Nov 24, 2015 at 12:18 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.25 #18 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


clmusic wrote:
^ Gary, you forgot that you are a RICH dentist. Rich dentists do not care about BF discount


Haha!! So true. I may buy six of them in case there are QC issues and I get a dud. I also thank you for reminding me of my (incredible) economic status. I feel much better now. Gotta run and continue working on this nasty bicuspid a patient has....



Nov 24, 2015 at 12:26 PM
edwardkaraa
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p.25 #19 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


True Leica users never buy during discounts. They always pay the full price, and even pay a premium to get the new camera before anyone else


Nov 24, 2015 at 01:01 PM
davewolfs
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p.25 #20 · Leica SL images and specs. Looks somehow familiar...


Steve Spencer wrote:
I love the shots with the Noctilux in part 2 of the Dowling review. It is clear some firmware fixes are in order, but I am still very impressed by this camera.


17k go for it baby.



Nov 24, 2015 at 01:11 PM
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