This topic is in the 2015 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2015Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
p.20 #1Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
bjornthun wrote:
There was a question to your blog post about focusing the Loxia 21/2.8 between 2m and infinity. I too would like to hear more about that, if possible. How does this affect the practical use of the Loxia 21/2.8? This is the only thing that might hold me back regarding this lens.
Hi Bjorn,
glad to hear you like it. The focus throw between 2m and infinity is around 7mm on the outer barrel. I will have to use the original mount again to say how far you have to turn the focus ring from 2mm to reach infinity. Infinity with Loxia lenses is usually a tiny bit before the hard stop. The critical application for that is night sky photography where you have to focus on the stars very accurately. I still have to try that out.
Phillip Reeve wrote
Some early impressions on my blogHi Bjorn,
glad to hear you like it. The focus throw between 2m and infinity is around 7mm on the outer barrel. I will have to use the original mount again to say how far you have to turn the focus ring from 2mm to reach infinity. Infinity with Loxia lenses is usually a tiny bit before the hard stop. The critical application for that is night sky photography where you have to focus on the stars very accurately. I still have to try that out.
Dec 18, 2015 at 12:49 AM
p.20 #2Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
bjornthun wrote:
Your friend Jannik has done a great job! 
There was a question to your blog post about focusing the Loxia 21/2.8 between 2m and infinity. I too would like to hear more about that, if possible. How does this affect the practical use of the Loxia 21/2.8? This is the only thing that might hold me back regarding this lens.
The focusing throw from 2m to infinty is better on the Zeiss ZM Biogon 21/2.8, so I wonder why Zeiss has changed this when making an E mount lens. The same trend can be seen on the Voigtländer superwides, 15/4.5 and...Show more →
That was me posting. the focus-throw from 2m to infinity is annoying but something I'm sure I will get used to. I don't know why they have designed it this way as when I had the Leica WATE it was so easy to use the scale to find the hyperfocal distance. Really it is just a niggle with a new lens which I hope will disappear in time.
I also see what you say about the new CV lenses and won't be changing form my 15 mkIII where I know if I put it on the 10ft mark at f8 everything is in focus when viewed 1:1
Phillip Reeve wrote
Some early impressions on my blogThere was a question to your blog post about focusing the Loxia 21/2.8 between 2m and infinity. I too would like to hear more about that, if possible. How does this affect the practical use of the Loxia 21/2.8? This is the only thing that might hold me back regarding this lens.
The focusing throw from 2m to infinty is better on the Zeiss ZM Biogon 21/2.8, so I wonder why Zeiss has changed this when making an E mount lens. The same trend can be seen on the Voigtländer superwides, 15/4.5 and...Show more →
That was me posting. the focus-throw from 2m to infinity is annoying but something I'm sure I will get used to. I don't know why they have designed it this way as when I had the Leica WATE it was so easy to use the scale to find the hyperfocal distance. Really it is just a niggle with a new lens which I hope will disappear in time.
I also see what you say about the new CV lenses and won't be changing form my 15 mkIII where I know if I put it on the 10ft mark at f8 everything is in focus when viewed 1:1
Dec 18, 2015 at 01:16 AM
p.20 #3Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jannik
Another question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
Viramati
I checked the focus throw on some focus by wire lenses:
Touit 12/2.8 (=18mm angle of view on full frame) focus throw is only 7mm
Batis 25/2 focus throw is approx 5cm when turning the ring slowly and the display shows the distance and hyperfocal much better than any MF lens
Sony/Zeiss 16-35/4 focus throw is about 3-3.5cm going from 2m to infinity with the distance scale in the magnified viewfinder view.
I'm starting to seriously wonder if focus by wire lenses may be better for manual focus than the Loxia 21/2.8. The M rangefinder wides on the other hand, I think will be fine for manual focusing, but then you lose EXIF and electronic integration and only a very few of them work well with stock Sony cameras.
The Batis 25/2 and the Sony Zeiss 16-35/4 have a much better implemented focus by wire than the Touit 12/2.8, since the throw will depend on the speed with which you turn the focus ring, when compared to the Touit 12/2.8.
Another question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
Viramati
I checked the focus throw on some focus by wire lenses:
Touit 12/2.8 (=18mm angle of view on full frame) focus throw is only 7mm
Batis 25/2 focus throw is approx 5cm when turning the ring slowly and the display shows the distance and hyperfocal much better than any MF lens
Sony/Zeiss 16-35/4 focus throw is about 3-3.5cm going from 2m to infinity with the distance scale in the magnified viewfinder view.
I'm starting to seriously wonder if focus by wire lenses may be better for manual focus than the Loxia 21/2.8. The M rangefinder wides on the other hand, I think will be fine for manual focusing, but then you lose EXIF and electronic integration and only a very few of them work well with stock Sony cameras.
The Batis 25/2 and the Sony Zeiss 16-35/4 have a much better implemented focus by wire than the Touit 12/2.8, since the throw will depend on the speed with which you turn the focus ring, when compared to the Touit 12/2.8.
Dec 18, 2015 at 07:26 AM
p.20 #4Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Actually I'm quite liking the focus by wire on the Batis 25 and 85. If you go at a slower speed i can easily nail focus. It seems better than the 55 for instance. Put another way better than what I thought it would be.
Dec 18, 2015 at 07:55 AM
p.20 #5Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
bjornthun wrote:
Jannik
Another question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
Viramati
I checked the focus throw on some focus by wire lenses:
Touit 12/2.8 (=18mm angle of view on full frame) focus throw is only 7mm
Batis 25/2 focus throw is approx 5cm when turning the ring slowly and the display shows the distance and hyperfocal much better than any MF lens
Sony/Zeiss 16-35/4 focus throw is about 3-3.5cm going from 2m to infinity with the distance scale in the magnified viewfinder view.
I'm starting to seriously wonder if focus by wire lenses may...Show more →
If they had made a Batis 21 then I may have gone for that but as it is the 25 focal length is to close to the 28mm of my Leica Q to warrant it. Personally one of the reasons I went for the Loxia 21 is that I don't like the manual focus on the FE16-35, You can't tell accurately and quickly where infinity is and the displayed distance scale is really next to useless. I am beginning to get to grips with the Loxia 21 and am beginning to evaluate the focus scale to the degree that I can now quickly be sure what is going to be in focus by using the scale and a bit of practice. The IQ I am seeing is very good and it's great to have a small prime that I can keep in the bag.
Jannik
Another question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
Viramati
I checked the focus throw on some focus by wire lenses:
Touit 12/2.8 (=18mm angle of view on full frame) focus throw is only 7mm
Batis 25/2 focus throw is approx 5cm when turning the ring slowly and the display shows the distance and hyperfocal much better than any MF lens
Sony/Zeiss 16-35/4 focus throw is about 3-3.5cm going from 2m to infinity with the distance scale in the magnified viewfinder view.
I'm starting to seriously wonder if focus by wire lenses may...Show more →
If they had made a Batis 21 then I may have gone for that but as it is the 25 focal length is to close to the 28mm of my Leica Q to warrant it. Personally one of the reasons I went for the Loxia 21 is that I don't like the manual focus on the FE16-35, You can't tell accurately and quickly where infinity is and the displayed distance scale is really next to useless. I am beginning to get to grips with the Loxia 21 and am beginning to evaluate the focus scale to the degree that I can now quickly be sure what is going to be in focus by using the scale and a bit of practice. The IQ I am seeing is very good and it's great to have a small prime that I can keep in the bag.
Dec 18, 2015 at 10:28 AM
p.20 #6Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
bjornthun wrote:
Jannik
Another question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
No distance scale in the viewfinder!
I just fixed my mount issue and updated the review concerning vignetting (very interisting), coma and Tough E-Mount.
Jannik
Another question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
No distance scale in the viewfinder!
I just fixed my mount issue and updated the review concerning vignetting (very interisting), coma and Tough E-Mount.
Dec 18, 2015 at 10:38 AM
p.20 #7Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jannik, you wrote "One thing, that I find amazing, is that even the resistance and dampening of the focus and the aperture ring is the same with the Loxia 2/50mm and the Loxia 2.8/21mm."
That's interesting because my two Loxias show a different behaviour. My Loxia 50 has a rather high resisitance and high dampening while my Loxia 21 has a low resistance and low dampening. In addition when I focus very fast the Loxia 21 makes some noise (a buzzing, whirring sound like two interacting gearwheels), while the Loxia 50 is nearly noiseless.
Boris
Edited on Dec 18, 2015 at 11:11 AM · View previous versions
That's interesting because my two Loxias show a different behaviour. My Loxia 50 has a rather high resisitance and high dampening while my Loxia 21 has a low resistance and low dampening. In addition when I focus very fast the Loxia 21 makes some noise (a buzzing, whirring sound like two interacting gearwheels), while the Loxia 50 is nearly noiseless.
Boris
Edited on Dec 18, 2015 at 11:11 AM · View previous versions
Dec 18, 2015 at 11:00 AM
p.20 #8Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Bobu wrote:
That's interesting because my two Loxias show a different behaviour. My Loxia 50 has a rather high resisitance and high dampening while my Loxia 21 has a low resistance and low dampening. In addition when I focus very fast the Loxia 21 makes some noise (a buzzing, whirring sound like two interacting gearwheels), while the Loxia 50 is nearly noiseless.
Hi Boris, my two Loxia's really have a quite equal feel to them when turning the focus ring. Maybe the 2/50 is slightly more stiff but that is negligable to me. I can hear that "gear sound" with my 2.8/21 too. The 2/50 sounds more like a quiet metal noise.
Edited on Dec 18, 2015 at 11:25 AM · View previous versions
That's interesting because my two Loxias show a different behaviour. My Loxia 50 has a rather high resisitance and high dampening while my Loxia 21 has a low resistance and low dampening. In addition when I focus very fast the Loxia 21 makes some noise (a buzzing, whirring sound like two interacting gearwheels), while the Loxia 50 is nearly noiseless.
Hi Boris, my two Loxia's really have a quite equal feel to them when turning the focus ring. Maybe the 2/50 is slightly more stiff but that is negligable to me. I can hear that "gear sound" with my 2.8/21 too. The 2/50 sounds more like a quiet metal noise.
Edited on Dec 18, 2015 at 11:25 AM · View previous versions
Dec 18, 2015 at 11:05 AM
Dec 18, 2015 at 11:06 AM
p.20 #10Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Floating element in the 21?
Jannik Peters wrote:
Hi Boris, my two Loxia's really have a quite equal feel to them when turning the focus ring. Maybe the 2/50 is slightly more stiff but that is negligable to me. I can hear that "gear sound" with my 2.8/21 too. The 2/50 sounds more like a quiet metal noise.
Jannik Peters wrote:
Bobu wrote
That's interesting because my two Loxias show a different behaviour. My Loxia 50 has a rather high resisitance and high dampening while my Loxia 21 has a low resistance and low dampening. In addition when I focus very fast the Loxia 21 makes some noise (a buzzing, whirring sound like two interacting gearwheels), while the Loxia 50 is nearly noiseless.Dec 18, 2015 at 11:27 AM
p.20 #11Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
GMPhotography wrote:
Floating element in the 21?
Hi Boris, my two Loxia's really have a quite equal feel to them when turning the focus ring. Maybe the 2/50 is slightly more stiff but that is negligable to me. I can hear that "gear sound" with my 2.8/21 too. The 2/50 sounds more like a quiet metal noise.
The Loxia 21mm doesn't have a floating element so it isn't that.
Floating element in the 21?
Jannik Peters wrote
Bobu wrote
That's interesting because my two Loxias show a different behaviour. My Loxia 50 has a rather high resisitance and high dampening while my Loxia 21 has a low resistance and low dampening. In addition when I focus very fast the Loxia 21 makes some noise (a buzzing, whirring sound like two interacting gearwheels), while the Loxia 50 is nearly noiseless.The Loxia 21mm doesn't have a floating element so it isn't that.
Dec 18, 2015 at 02:14 PM
p.20 #12Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Thanks Steve I wasn,t sure. Must be the elements moving it sounds like(groups that is )
Dec 18, 2015 at 02:16 PM
p.20 #13Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Steve Spencer wrote:
Hi Boris, my two Loxia's really have a quite equal feel to them when turning the focus ring. Maybe the 2/50 is slightly more stiff but that is negligable to me. I can hear that "gear sound" with my 2.8/21 too. The 2/50 sounds more like a quiet metal noise.The Loxia 21mm doesn't have a floating element so it isn't that.
There is a sensor in the lens to tell the camera when the focus ring is turning. Could that be it?
GMPhotography wrote
Floating element in the 21?Jannik Peters wrote
Bobu wrote
That's interesting because my two Loxias show a different behaviour. My Loxia 50 has a rather high resisitance and high dampening while my Loxia 21 has a low resistance and low dampening. In addition when I focus very fast the Loxia 21 makes some noise (a buzzing, whirring sound like two interacting gearwheels), while the Loxia 50 is nearly noiseless.There is a sensor in the lens to tell the camera when the focus ring is turning. Could that be it?
Dec 18, 2015 at 02:16 PM
p.20 #14Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Viramati wrote:
Another question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
Viramati
I checked the focus throw on some focus by wire lenses:
Touit 12/2.8 (=18mm angle of view on full frame) focus throw is only 7mm
Batis 25/2 focus throw is approx 5cm when turning the ring slowly and the display shows the distance and hyperfocal much better than any MF lens
Sony/Zeiss 16-35/4 focus throw is about 3-3.5cm going from 2m to infinity with the distance scale in the magnified viewfinder view.
I'm starting to seriously wonder if focus by wire lenses may be better for manual focus than the Loxia 21/2.8. The M rangefinder wides on the other hand, I think will be fine for manual focusing, but then you lose EXIF and electronic integration and only a very few of them work well with stock Sony cameras.
The Batis 25/2 and the Sony Zeiss 16-35/4 have a much better implemented focus by wire than the Touit 12/2.8, since the throw will depend on the speed with which you turn the focus ring, when compared to the Touit 12/2.8.If they had made a Batis 21 then I may have gone for that but as it is the 25 focal length is to close to the 28mm of my Leica Q to warrant it. Personally one of the reasons I went for the Loxia 21 is that I don't like the manual focus on the FE16-35, You can't tell accurately and quickly where infinity is and the displayed distance scale is really next to useless. I am beginning to get to grips with the Loxia 21 and am beginning to evaluate the focus scale to the degree that I...Show more →
The distance information from the 16-35/4 diverges from that of the Batis 25/2. I'm inclined to believe the Batis 25/2 in this case. That said, I usually rely on the image in the viewfinder for manual focusing, so the important thing for me is a good focus throw, more than the figures on any meter/feet scale, and the 16-35/4 ZA at least has a nice focus throw for MF.
I'm going to think about the Loxia 21/2.8 and may also see what more lenses that will come for Sony FE before deciding. I'm already very happy with my 16-35/4 ZA and Batis 25/2.
bjornthun wrote
JannikAnother question: When you turn the focusing ring, is the distance shown in the viewfinder too, when the image is magnified?
Viramati
I checked the focus throw on some focus by wire lenses:
Touit 12/2.8 (=18mm angle of view on full frame) focus throw is only 7mm
Batis 25/2 focus throw is approx 5cm when turning the ring slowly and the display shows the distance and hyperfocal much better than any MF lens
Sony/Zeiss 16-35/4 focus throw is about 3-3.5cm going from 2m to infinity with the distance scale in the magnified viewfinder view.
I'm starting to seriously wonder if focus by wire lenses may be better for manual focus than the Loxia 21/2.8. The M rangefinder wides on the other hand, I think will be fine for manual focusing, but then you lose EXIF and electronic integration and only a very few of them work well with stock Sony cameras.
The Batis 25/2 and the Sony Zeiss 16-35/4 have a much better implemented focus by wire than the Touit 12/2.8, since the throw will depend on the speed with which you turn the focus ring, when compared to the Touit 12/2.8.
The distance information from the 16-35/4 diverges from that of the Batis 25/2. I'm inclined to believe the Batis 25/2 in this case. That said, I usually rely on the image in the viewfinder for manual focusing, so the important thing for me is a good focus throw, more than the figures on any meter/feet scale, and the 16-35/4 ZA at least has a nice focus throw for MF.
I'm going to think about the Loxia 21/2.8 and may also see what more lenses that will come for Sony FE before deciding. I'm already very happy with my 16-35/4 ZA and Batis 25/2.
Dec 18, 2015 at 02:24 PM
p.20 #15Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I just added bokeh and flare samples. Good news: I can't find any focus shift!
http://phillipreeve.net/blog/rolling-review-zeiss-loxia-distagon-2-821mm-t/
http://phillipreeve.net/blog/rolling-review-zeiss-loxia-distagon-2-821mm-t/
Dec 19, 2015 at 07:51 AM
p.20 #16Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Zeiss Loxia 21mm f/2.8 by Jannik Peters, auf Flickr
Zeiss Loxia 21mm f/2.8 by Jannik Peters, auf Flickr
Zeiss Loxia 21mm f/2.8 by Jannik Peters, auf Flickr
Dec 20, 2015 at 09:06 AM
p.20 #17Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
A wide angle lens review without corner crops of a planar or distant subject. 
The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?
The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?
Dec 20, 2015 at 11:12 AM
p.20 #18Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
wayne seltzer wrote:
A wide angle lens review without corner crops of a planar or distant subject.
The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?
No its about the same on the Zeiss MTF charts. The Loxia is about 2.1% whereas the ZE/ZF/MIlvus is about 2.3%. They have about the same barrel distortion in the middle 2/3rds (the Loxia has a bit less) but the ZE/ZF/Milvus has quite a bit more pincushion in the corners.
Edited on Dec 20, 2015 at 11:37 AM · View previous versions
A wide angle lens review without corner crops of a planar or distant subject.
The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?
No its about the same on the Zeiss MTF charts. The Loxia is about 2.1% whereas the ZE/ZF/MIlvus is about 2.3%. They have about the same barrel distortion in the middle 2/3rds (the Loxia has a bit less) but the ZE/ZF/Milvus has quite a bit more pincushion in the corners.
Edited on Dec 20, 2015 at 11:37 AM · View previous versions
Dec 20, 2015 at 11:36 AM
p.20 #19Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
wayne seltzer wrote:
A wide angle lens review without corner crops of a planar or distant subject.
The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?
I didn't have the Milvus so far but there should be broad experience here so that I hope someone will judge that.
Good examination. Yesterday, I could put my Loxia out in daylight for the first time and found out immediately, that it is decentered. I will post some corner crops that show the decentering. It is definitely the lens because my Loxia 2/50 performs equal in all edges. I decided to pause that review until I get a proper copy of it. I'm really disappointed. I have a ~50% decentering rate with my Sony and Zeiss new lens purchases, way too high.
I hope that Zeiss will repair my lens soon so that I can resume my review. I removed the coma part because of the decentering. The rest of the review that I posted so far should be valid with a non-perfect lens, too.
A wide angle lens review without corner crops of a planar or distant subject.
The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?
I didn't have the Milvus so far but there should be broad experience here so that I hope someone will judge that.
Good examination. Yesterday, I could put my Loxia out in daylight for the first time and found out immediately, that it is decentered. I will post some corner crops that show the decentering. It is definitely the lens because my Loxia 2/50 performs equal in all edges. I decided to pause that review until I get a proper copy of it. I'm really disappointed. I have a ~50% decentering rate with my Sony and Zeiss new lens purchases, way too high.
I hope that Zeiss will repair my lens soon so that I can resume my review. I removed the coma part because of the decentering. The rest of the review that I posted so far should be valid with a non-perfect lens, too.
Dec 20, 2015 at 11:36 AM
p.20 #20Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jannik Peters wrote:
The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?I didn't have the Milvus so far but there should be broad experience here so that I hope someone will judge that.
Good examination. Yesterday, I could put my Loxia out in daylight for the first time and found out immediately, that it is decentered. I will post some corner crops that show the decentering. It is definitely the lens because my Loxia 2/50 performs equal in all edges. I decided to pause that review until I get a proper copy of it. I'm really disappointed. I have a ~50% decentering rate with my Sony and Zeiss new lens purchases,...Show more →
Thanks for your review and your attention to the details. It is good you let us know about the problem as it may be affecting the results. I very much appreciate your efforts.
wayne seltzer wrote
A wide angle lens review without corner crops of a planar or distant subject.The wavy distortion looks stronger than ZE/ZF 21.
Is that true?
Good examination. Yesterday, I could put my Loxia out in daylight for the first time and found out immediately, that it is decentered. I will post some corner crops that show the decentering. It is definitely the lens because my Loxia 2/50 performs equal in all edges. I decided to pause that review until I get a proper copy of it. I'm really disappointed. I have a ~50% decentering rate with my Sony and Zeiss new lens purchases,...Show more →
Thanks for your review and your attention to the details. It is good you let us know about the problem as it may be affecting the results. I very much appreciate your efforts.
Dec 20, 2015 at 11:40 AM