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Archive 2015Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
p.18 #1Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
The Loxia 21mm is schedule to ship mid December.
Does anyone know the exact day the lens will arrive to the dealers?
Does anyone know the exact day the lens will arrive to the dealers?
Dec 14, 2015 at 09:24 PM
p.18 #2Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
zalmyb wrote:
A. It's much easier to quickly focus at 2.8 not just because of the light but because of the obviously thin DOF.
B. Why wouldn't one shoot at f/11 at ISO of 3200? Isn't that why we have fancy pants cameras? Why limit them then with silly manual diaphragms? First image below is shot at around those settings. That would be really hard to do looking through a stopped down lens. The next one would be even harder as I'm using a flash at f/16. I wouldn't be able to see anything in the EVF!! And the third is at...Show more →
The EVF can compensate for your settings and display an image as bright as the resulting exposure. Because of this, you can actually see the image when you're stopped down to f/16, unlike OVF's. You might even see that you really only need to be stopped down to f/8 (not in your last sample, obviously). It's one of the best fancy pants feature of the camera, since it allows you to see how far you need to stop down to get exactly the DoF you want without relying on estimated calculations. And there are a couple of fancy pants lenses designed for the mount around this focal length that give auto-everything (on top of the hundreds of adaptable Canons and now Nikon G's). The Loxia line is for people who prefer their lenses stripped down and fully manual.
A. It's much easier to quickly focus at 2.8 not just because of the light but because of the obviously thin DOF.
B. Why wouldn't one shoot at f/11 at ISO of 3200? Isn't that why we have fancy pants cameras? Why limit them then with silly manual diaphragms? First image below is shot at around those settings. That would be really hard to do looking through a stopped down lens. The next one would be even harder as I'm using a flash at f/16. I wouldn't be able to see anything in the EVF!! And the third is at...Show more →
The EVF can compensate for your settings and display an image as bright as the resulting exposure. Because of this, you can actually see the image when you're stopped down to f/16, unlike OVF's. You might even see that you really only need to be stopped down to f/8 (not in your last sample, obviously). It's one of the best fancy pants feature of the camera, since it allows you to see how far you need to stop down to get exactly the DoF you want without relying on estimated calculations. And there are a couple of fancy pants lenses designed for the mount around this focal length that give auto-everything (on top of the hundreds of adaptable Canons and now Nikon G's). The Loxia line is for people who prefer their lenses stripped down and fully manual.
Dec 14, 2015 at 10:51 PM
p.18 #3Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
davewolfs wrote:
Auto Stop Down Lens Diaphragm is not as important in mirrorless unless you have some really unique circumstances. There is a lot of misconception that it is required for some reason.
The only time things get a bit odd is in low light. The EVF can sometimes struggle and become choppy or have noise, but I expect that this can only improve (up to a certain degree).
If by "really unique" you mean "fairly frequent," "a bit" you mean "extremely," and "low" you mean "low or even moderate."
I'm not sure what you're shooting because my experience with EVFs (or LV on my D750) has been that they're too low in dynamic range to shoot at brightest mid-day and - even with auto-stop-dow, sometimes - get too noisy to shoot past late afternoon (or indoors). WYSIWYG is the future for sure, and OVFs are on the way out, but for me it's a few years away at least.
For now, yeah, not having an "A" option on the aperture ring reduces my interest in the Loxia drastically (well, for now as I mentioned I've given up on EVF and gone back to a DSLR, so my Loxia interest is zero, but imagining I came back to mirrorless for an A7r3 or A7r4...)
Auto Stop Down Lens Diaphragm is not as important in mirrorless unless you have some really unique circumstances. There is a lot of misconception that it is required for some reason.
The only time things get a bit odd is in low light. The EVF can sometimes struggle and become choppy or have noise, but I expect that this can only improve (up to a certain degree).
If by "really unique" you mean "fairly frequent," "a bit" you mean "extremely," and "low" you mean "low or even moderate."
I'm not sure what you're shooting because my experience with EVFs (or LV on my D750) has been that they're too low in dynamic range to shoot at brightest mid-day and - even with auto-stop-dow, sometimes - get too noisy to shoot past late afternoon (or indoors). WYSIWYG is the future for sure, and OVFs are on the way out, but for me it's a few years away at least.
For now, yeah, not having an "A" option on the aperture ring reduces my interest in the Loxia drastically (well, for now as I mentioned I've given up on EVF and gone back to a DSLR, so my Loxia interest is zero, but imagining I came back to mirrorless for an A7r3 or A7r4...)
Dec 15, 2015 at 03:03 AM
p.18 #4Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Fred Miranda wrote:
Does anyone know the exact day the lens will arrive to the dealers?
My dealer told me mid-january here in Germany.
Does anyone know the exact day the lens will arrive to the dealers?
My dealer told me mid-january here in Germany.
Dec 15, 2015 at 03:10 AM
p.18 #5Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Jannik Peters wrote:
My dealer told me mid-january here in Germany.
So says now B&H Photo Video and my local dealer in Norway.
Fred Miranda wrote
Does anyone know the exact day the lens will arrive to the dealers?So says now B&H Photo Video and my local dealer in Norway.
Dec 15, 2015 at 03:21 AM
p.18 #6Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Fred Miranda wrote:
The Loxia 21mm is schedule to ship mid December.
Does anyone know the exact day the lens will arrive to the dealers?
My dealer says end of January here in Germany.
I preordered the day it was anounced.
The Loxia 21mm is schedule to ship mid December.
Does anyone know the exact day the lens will arrive to the dealers?
My dealer says end of January here in Germany.
I preordered the day it was anounced.
Dec 15, 2015 at 03:32 AM
p.18 #7Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Seems like I had big luck! One local dealer in Germany got a few Loxia 21mm and I could press the "Buy it now"-Button fast enough. It should be here within the next few days.
I just saw, that one more dealer has it avialable here in Germany. The shipping should have started!
Edited on Dec 15, 2015 at 05:56 AM · View previous versions
I just saw, that one more dealer has it avialable here in Germany. The shipping should have started!
Edited on Dec 15, 2015 at 05:56 AM · View previous versions
Dec 15, 2015 at 05:35 AM
p.18 #8Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
You did, nothing here in the US yet. I'm first on my dealers list by I'm hoping it's mid January anyway for me. No money left for this year. I got wiped out with Christmas. Santa stocking is low. Lol
Dec 15, 2015 at 05:55 AM
p.18 #9Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Just picked mine up so bye bye WATE hello Loxia. More later
Edited on Dec 15, 2015 at 09:45 AM · View previous versions
Edited on Dec 15, 2015 at 09:45 AM · View previous versions
Dec 15, 2015 at 08:45 AM
p.18 #11Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Would love to post some images but it would seem I can't without some sort of special membership status
Dec 15, 2015 at 12:36 PM
p.18 #12Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Viramati wrote:
Would love to post some images but it would seem I can't without some sort of special membership status
try flickr and use their embed BB code
Would love to post some images but it would seem I can't without some sort of special membership status
try flickr and use their embed BB code
Dec 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM
p.18 #13Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Phillip Reeve wrote:
try flickr and use their embed BB code
Going gently by Viramati, on Flickr
In this image viewed 1:1 I am seeing a stunning level of detail across the frame and right into the corners
Fire Exit by Viramati, on Flickr
Viramati wrote
Would love to post some images but it would seem I can't without some sort of special membership statusGoing gently by Viramati, on Flickr
In this image viewed 1:1 I am seeing a stunning level of detail across the frame and right into the corners
Fire Exit by Viramati, on Flickr
Dec 15, 2015 at 12:50 PM
p.18 #14Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Lee Saxon wrote:
I'm not sure what you're shooting because my experience with EVFs (or LV on my D750) has been that they're too low in dynamic range to shoot at brightest mid-day and - even with auto-stop-dow, sometimes - get too noisy to shoot past late afternoon (or indoors). WYSIWYG is the future for sure, and OVFs are on the way out, but for me it's a few years away at least.
Lee,
what EVFs were you using? i've never had trouble with my oldish a7 in low light – it's always much brighter than any slr finder i've used and noise doesn't inhibit things till long after i'd just be using the focus scale and guessing framing with an optical finder.
dynamic range in bright sunlight is certainly still a problem though.
I'm not sure what you're shooting because my experience with EVFs (or LV on my D750) has been that they're too low in dynamic range to shoot at brightest mid-day and - even with auto-stop-dow, sometimes - get too noisy to shoot past late afternoon (or indoors). WYSIWYG is the future for sure, and OVFs are on the way out, but for me it's a few years away at least.
Lee,
what EVFs were you using? i've never had trouble with my oldish a7 in low light – it's always much brighter than any slr finder i've used and noise doesn't inhibit things till long after i'd just be using the focus scale and guessing framing with an optical finder.
dynamic range in bright sunlight is certainly still a problem though.
Dec 15, 2015 at 04:17 PM
p.18 #15Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I spoke to my B&H source and it seems that the first pre-orders batch will be shipped out at the beginning a January. If this changes, I will be updated.
Dec 15, 2015 at 04:56 PM
p.18 #16Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
In a way this delay maybe a good thing. At least according to rumor Sony will announce on the 5th so that could help on a buying decision.
Dec 15, 2015 at 07:09 PM
p.18 #17Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
freaklikeme wrote:
B. Why wouldn't one shoot at f/11 at ISO of 3200? Isn't that why we have fancy pants cameras? Why limit them then with silly manual diaphragms? First image below is shot at around those settings. That would be really hard to do looking through a stopped down lens. The next one would be even harder as I'm using a flash at f/16. I wouldn't be able to see anything in the EVF!! And the third is at f/16 and 1/8 of a second, that's pretty dim...The EVF can compensate for your settings and display an image as bright as the resulting exposure. Because of this, you can actually see the image when you're stopped down to f/16, unlike OVF's. You might even see that you really only need to be stopped down to f/8 (not in your last sample, obviously). It's one of the best fancy pants feature of the camera, since it allows you to see how far you need to stop down to get exactly the DoF you want without relying on estimated calculations. And there are a couple of fancy pants lenses...Show more →
Even at 6400 and 1/15? What's the refresh rate? I can't believe that the EVF is brighter at f/16 than a regular viewfinder at 2.8 or whatever. Especially when using a flash. And I use f/16 so I could zone focus quickly. No matter how you put it it's not a feature to have a manually stopped down lens. Why not just make it an option (like every SLR). Why would anyone want a fully manual lens (in regard to stopping down the aperture). It's not even like "the good old days". The good old days have automatic diaphragms or rangefinder focusing...
zalmyb wrote
A. It's much easier to quickly focus at 2.8 not just because of the light but because of the obviously thin DOF.B. Why wouldn't one shoot at f/11 at ISO of 3200? Isn't that why we have fancy pants cameras? Why limit them then with silly manual diaphragms? First image below is shot at around those settings. That would be really hard to do looking through a stopped down lens. The next one would be even harder as I'm using a flash at f/16. I wouldn't be able to see anything in the EVF!! And the third is at f/16 and 1/8 of a second, that's pretty dim...
Even at 6400 and 1/15? What's the refresh rate? I can't believe that the EVF is brighter at f/16 than a regular viewfinder at 2.8 or whatever. Especially when using a flash. And I use f/16 so I could zone focus quickly. No matter how you put it it's not a feature to have a manually stopped down lens. Why not just make it an option (like every SLR). Why would anyone want a fully manual lens (in regard to stopping down the aperture). It's not even like "the good old days". The good old days have automatic diaphragms or rangefinder focusing...
Dec 15, 2015 at 09:59 PM
p.18 #18Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
zalmyb wrote:
Why would anyone want a fully manual lens (in regard to stopping down the aperture). It's not even like "the good old days". The good old days have automatic diaphragms or rangefinder focusing...
well, if i was a manufacturer i would enjoy not having to build irises that have to move fast.
i actually also prefer viewing at working aperture at least 95% of the time and don't like awkward reaches for DOF preview buttons. that's because most of my shooting is in the f/8 or larger range with normal to longer focal lengths, where i like being able to see my actual dof. if i shot more often at f/11 or smaller with ultrawides i'm sure i'd want auto aperture. given that this is an ultrawide lens though, i think complaining about the lack of auto aperture is valid.
Why would anyone want a fully manual lens (in regard to stopping down the aperture). It's not even like "the good old days". The good old days have automatic diaphragms or rangefinder focusing...
well, if i was a manufacturer i would enjoy not having to build irises that have to move fast.
i actually also prefer viewing at working aperture at least 95% of the time and don't like awkward reaches for DOF preview buttons. that's because most of my shooting is in the f/8 or larger range with normal to longer focal lengths, where i like being able to see my actual dof. if i shot more often at f/11 or smaller with ultrawides i'm sure i'd want auto aperture. given that this is an ultrawide lens though, i think complaining about the lack of auto aperture is valid.
Dec 15, 2015 at 10:10 PM
p.18 #19Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Viramati wrote:
try flickr and use their embed BB codehttps://farm6.staticflickr.com/5801/23667286582_495236e9ff_b.jpg
Going gently by Viramati, on Flickr
In this image viewed 1:1 I am seeing a stunning level of detail across the frame and right into the corners
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5738/23408246159_d58f25db02_b.jpg
Fire Exit by Viramati, on Flickr
That looks fantastic
I also find the A7 EVF not optimal to find critical focus UWA, and it does matter. The ZM18 is really good on the Kolari but it took me many tries just to find the sweet spot for large DOF shots. The RF is way easier in this regard. But maybe the A7r2 has less noisy EVF. Tonite I missed a very simple shot with the CV 35/1.2 in low light because of the EVF noise.
As to WATE vs other stuff: On the Leicas it's widely considered not at the level of ZM18 or SEM18, and certainly not like the SEM21, which is the strongest UWA M lens ever made. But the WATE is very good. And obviously it's been way better than those lenses on the stock sonys. When I could not get satisfaction UWA in late 2013 with A7 I thought about a WATE. The M9 was cheaper Now I've had nearly two years of just sick UWA performance, instead of the "WATE" for the real deal, the Loxia 21/2.8......which still isn't here 
No regrets, just relived I don't have to fight you guys to find one
Now, where's the 18 or 15? Another year I guess. One thing they do seemed to have learned from Leica: trickle out the new stuff, lest one item hurts the sales of the previous. I know the CV v3 is pretty decent. But not like this Loxia
philber wrote:
Charlie, of all people you should understand that no exalted WA lens designed for thin cover glass can be praised for its performance on the dismal A7 cameras....
Phillipe, I'm beginning to suspect humping that Otus around is making you grumpy
But this lens should cheer you up by the looks of it.
Phillip Reeve wrote
Viramati wrote
Would love to post some images but it would seem I can't without some sort of special membership statusGoing gently by Viramati, on Flickr
In this image viewed 1:1 I am seeing a stunning level of detail across the frame and right into the corners
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5738/23408246159_d58f25db02_b.jpg
Fire Exit by Viramati, on Flickr
That looks fantastic
I also find the A7 EVF not optimal to find critical focus UWA, and it does matter. The ZM18 is really good on the Kolari but it took me many tries just to find the sweet spot for large DOF shots. The RF is way easier in this regard. But maybe the A7r2 has less noisy EVF. Tonite I missed a very simple shot with the CV 35/1.2 in low light because of the EVF noise.
As to WATE vs other stuff: On the Leicas it's widely considered not at the level of ZM18 or SEM18, and certainly not like the SEM21, which is the strongest UWA M lens ever made. But the WATE is very good. And obviously it's been way better than those lenses on the stock sonys. When I could not get satisfaction UWA in late 2013 with A7 I thought about a WATE. The M9 was cheaper
Now I've had nearly two years of just sick UWA performance, instead of the "WATE" for the real deal, the Loxia 21/2.8......which still isn't here No regrets, just relived I don't have to fight you guys to find one
Now, where's the 18 or 15? Another year I guess. One thing they do seemed to have learned from Leica: trickle out the new stuff, lest one item hurts the sales of the previous. I know the CV v3 is pretty decent. But not like this Loxia
philber wrote:
Charlie, of all people you should understand that no exalted WA lens designed for thin cover glass can be praised for its performance on the dismal A7 cameras....
Phillipe, I'm beginning to suspect humping that Otus around is making you grumpy
But this lens should cheer you up by the looks of it. Dec 15, 2015 at 10:41 PM
p.18 #20Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
uhoh7 wrote:
Tonite I missed a very simple shot with the CV 35/1.2 in low light because of the EVF noise.
but would you have been able to hit it manual focusing with a dslr?
Tonite I missed a very simple shot with the CV 35/1.2 in low light because of the EVF noise.
but would you have been able to hit it manual focusing with a dslr?
Dec 15, 2015 at 11:22 PM