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Archive 2015Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
p.17 #1Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
In fact, I expect the Loxia 21 to out peform the WATE@21mm. Charlie, of all people you should understand that no exalted WA lens designed for thin cover glass can be praised for its performance on the dismal A7 cameras....
Nov 29, 2015 at 02:08 PM
p.17 #2Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
philber wrote:
In fact, I expect the Loxia 21 to out peform the WATE@21mm. Charlie, of all people you should understand that no exalted WA lens designed for thin cover glass can be praised for its performance on the dismal A7 cameras....
I agree Phillipe. In fact, it looks to me from the samples and the MTFs that the Loxia 21 has very similar performance to the Leica M 21 SEM and although bigger is half a stop faster. Charlie you know what high praise that is and exactly what it means in performance relative to the WATE.
In fact, I expect the Loxia 21 to out peform the WATE@21mm. Charlie, of all people you should understand that no exalted WA lens designed for thin cover glass can be praised for its performance on the dismal A7 cameras....
I agree Phillipe. In fact, it looks to me from the samples and the MTFs that the Loxia 21 has very similar performance to the Leica M 21 SEM and although bigger is half a stop faster. Charlie you know what high praise that is and exactly what it means in performance relative to the WATE.
Nov 29, 2015 at 02:13 PM
p.17 #3Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Gosh! I was so excited about this lens, as I really wanted to try out a A7 system (currently using Nikon, mostly shot families and weddings). I don't mind the AF, but why doesn't lens diaphragm close down automatically?! That is beyond ridiculous and is a deal breaker for me. I usually shoot around f/8 (and smaller) at fast moving subjects... 
Nov 29, 2015 at 05:40 PM
p.17 #4Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I'm thinking about selling my 25 Batis for the 21 Loxia, just because of the focal length. Not easy, because the Batis is a great lens with very minimal field curvature. Such a flat field is quite exceptional for a 24/25mm lens. It makes judging DOF much easier, especially on a 42MP sensor.
Nov 29, 2015 at 05:43 PM
p.17 #5Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
If the 25 Batis had been a Loxia, I'd have been all over it. But as a bulky AF-only lens... practically no interest.
Nov 29, 2015 at 06:11 PM
p.17 #6Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
If you guys want to see how the WATE (on the M240) compares to the 18mm & 21mm SEM, I have samples on my blog.
http://www.wyvernpix.com/blog/
http://www.wyvernpix.com/blog/
Nov 30, 2015 at 08:29 PM
p.17 #7Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Andrew Gough wrote:
If you guys want to see how the WATE (on the M240) compares to the 18mm & 21mm SEM, I have samples on my blog.
http://www.wyvernpix.com/blog/
Andrew, thank you for the comparison. If you put the center and corner on the same plane of focus, you would be surprised that the SEM 18 will get outclassed by the WATE at 16 and 18.
If you guys want to see how the WATE (on the M240) compares to the 18mm & 21mm SEM, I have samples on my blog.
http://www.wyvernpix.com/blog/
Andrew, thank you for the comparison. If you put the center and corner on the same plane of focus, you would be surprised that the SEM 18 will get outclassed by the WATE at 16 and 18.
Nov 30, 2015 at 09:29 PM
p.17 #8Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
In my experience, with my copy, the WATE is at its weakest at 18mm. It is easily outclassed by the 18mm SEM. My WATE seems to be at its best at 16mm on both the M240 and the A7RII.
Nov 30, 2015 at 10:15 PM
p.17 #9Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Andrew Gough wrote:
In my experience, with my copy, the WATE is at its weakest at 18mm. It is easily outclassed by the 18mm SEM. My WATE seems to be at its best at 16mm on both the M240 and the A7RII.
It might be better in the center portion, but for extreme corner, the WATE has much better definition. This is at f/8 though. The WATE is pretty weak at f/4. Your test does show astigmatism with the 18mm at the corners at f/8
In my experience, with my copy, the WATE is at its weakest at 18mm. It is easily outclassed by the 18mm SEM. My WATE seems to be at its best at 16mm on both the M240 and the A7RII.
It might be better in the center portion, but for extreme corner, the WATE has much better definition. This is at f/8 though. The WATE is pretty weak at f/4. Your test does show astigmatism with the 18mm at the corners at f/8
Nov 30, 2015 at 10:45 PM
p.17 #10Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Andrew Gough wrote:
In my experience, with my copy, the WATE is at its weakest at 18mm. It is easily outclassed by the 18mm SEM. My WATE seems to be at its best at 16mm on both the M240 and the A7RII.
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hiepphotog wrote:
It might be better in the center portion, but for extreme corner, the WATE has much better definition. This is at f/8 though. The WATE is pretty weak at f/4. Your test does show astigmatism with the 18mm at the corners at f/8
I have been pleased with the limited usage of my WATE at 18mm. Below is shot of Dark Hollow Falls in Shenandoah National Park set to f8 at 18mm with my tripod mounted A7r. I have yet to shoot this combination with my A7rM which will be going back to Kolari Vision for an adjustment of the sensor. In larger size I am quite impressed by the sharpness in the tree trunk to the upper right corner. By the way, focus was on the yellow leaf near the front of the image and about 1/3 of the way in from the right. The lichens on the rock in the lower right corner are not quite as sharp as they might be, but I suspect that has to do with the shape of the large rock.
Rich
In my experience, with my copy, the WATE is at its weakest at 18mm. It is easily outclassed by the 18mm SEM. My WATE seems to be at its best at 16mm on both the M240 and the A7RII.
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hiepphotog wrote:
Andrew Gough wrote
In my experience, with my copy, the WATE is at its weakest at 18mm. It is easily outclassed by the 18mm SEM. My WATE seems to be at its best at 16mm on both the M240 and the A7RII.I have been pleased with the limited usage of my WATE at 18mm. Below is shot of Dark Hollow Falls in Shenandoah National Park set to f8 at 18mm with my tripod mounted A7r. I have yet to shoot this combination with my A7rM which will be going back to Kolari Vision for an adjustment of the sensor. In larger size I am quite impressed by the sharpness in the tree trunk to the upper right corner. By the way, focus was on the yellow leaf near the front of the image and about 1/3 of the way in from the right. The lichens on the rock in the lower right corner are not quite as sharp as they might be, but I suspect that has to do with the shape of the large rock.
Rich
Dec 01, 2015 at 11:40 PM
p.17 #11Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Sample variation maybe at play here too.. My WATE was purchased used, and may need service. I have been very hesitant to send it in because is extremely good at 16mm and 21mm. I rarely shoot it at 18mm. I would like to hear other people's experiences with this lens at 18mm and the othe focal lengths. But I do not want to hijack this thread.
Andrew
Andrew
Dec 02, 2015 at 07:12 AM
p.17 #12Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Andrew Gough wrote:
Sample variation maybe at play here too.. My WATE was purchased used, and may need service. I have been very hesitant to send it in because is extremely good at 16mm and 21mm. I rarely shoot it at 18mm. I would like to hear other people's experiences with this lens at 18mm and the othe focal lengths. But I do not want to hijack this thread.
Andrew
Just make a thread about your reviews on these Leica lenses. I still think if you take a slanted infinity series, it would be very revealing. With the scene you're using right now, you have to juggle with DOF.
Sample variation maybe at play here too.. My WATE was purchased used, and may need service. I have been very hesitant to send it in because is extremely good at 16mm and 21mm. I rarely shoot it at 18mm. I would like to hear other people's experiences with this lens at 18mm and the othe focal lengths. But I do not want to hijack this thread.
Andrew
Just make a thread about your reviews on these Leica lenses. I still think if you take a slanted infinity series, it would be very revealing. With the scene you're using right now, you have to juggle with DOF.
Dec 02, 2015 at 09:09 AM
p.17 #13Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
Anyone hearing of delivery dates
Dec 04, 2015 at 09:14 AM
p.17 #14Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
My dealer told me mid-end of january here in Germany.
Dec 04, 2015 at 10:05 AM
p.17 #15Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I have a confirmed delivery date of CW 05, also in Germany.
Boris
Boris
Dec 04, 2015 at 10:28 AM
p.17 #16Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
zalmyb wrote:
Gosh! I was so excited about this lens, as I really wanted to try out a A7 system (currently using Nikon, mostly shot families and weddings). I don't mind the AF, but why doesn't lens diaphragm close down automatically?! That is beyond ridiculous and is a deal breaker for me. I usually shoot around f/8 (and smaller) at fast moving subjects...
If you shoot fast moving subjects at f/8 I have to assume you are shooting in bright light. I don't see how you would benefit from auto stop down. What you see in the EVF at f/8 should be the same as what you would see if you shot at f/2.8 minus the DOF differences.
Auto Stop Down Lens Diaphragm is not as important in mirrorless unless you have some really unique circumstances. There is a lot of misconception that it is required for some reason.
The only time things get a bit odd is in low light. The EVF can sometimes struggle and become choppy or have noise, but I expect that this can only improve (up to a certain degree).
Gosh! I was so excited about this lens, as I really wanted to try out a A7 system (currently using Nikon, mostly shot families and weddings). I don't mind the AF, but why doesn't lens diaphragm close down automatically?! That is beyond ridiculous and is a deal breaker for me. I usually shoot around f/8 (and smaller) at fast moving subjects...
If you shoot fast moving subjects at f/8 I have to assume you are shooting in bright light. I don't see how you would benefit from auto stop down. What you see in the EVF at f/8 should be the same as what you would see if you shot at f/2.8 minus the DOF differences.
Auto Stop Down Lens Diaphragm is not as important in mirrorless unless you have some really unique circumstances. There is a lot of misconception that it is required for some reason.
The only time things get a bit odd is in low light. The EVF can sometimes struggle and become choppy or have noise, but I expect that this can only improve (up to a certain degree).
Dec 04, 2015 at 11:01 AM
p.17 #17Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
But the whole point is that its much easier to hit accurate focus at full aperture simply because of the reduced depth of field (and depth of focus too)
Gerry
Gerry
Dec 04, 2015 at 11:57 AM
p.17 #18Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
A. It's much easier to quickly focus at 2.8 not just because of the light but because of the obviously thin DOF.
B. Why wouldn't one shoot at f/11 at ISO of 3200? Isn't that why we have fancy pants cameras? Why limit them then with silly manual diaphragms? First image below is shot at around those settings. That would be really hard to do looking through a stopped down lens. The next one would be even harder as I'm using a flash at f/16. I wouldn't be able to see anything in the EVF!! And the third is at f/16 and 1/8 of a second, that's pretty dim...
davewolfs wrote:
If you shoot fast moving subjects at f/8 I have to assume you are shooting in bright light. I don't see how you would benefit from auto stop down. What you see in the EVF at f/8 should be the same as what you would see if you shot at f/2.8 minus the DOF differences.
Auto Stop Down Lens Diaphragm is not as important in mirrorless unless you have some really unique circumstances. There is a lot of misconception that it is required for some reason.
The only time things get a bit odd is in low light. The EVF can sometimes...Show more →
B. Why wouldn't one shoot at f/11 at ISO of 3200? Isn't that why we have fancy pants cameras? Why limit them then with silly manual diaphragms? First image below is shot at around those settings. That would be really hard to do looking through a stopped down lens. The next one would be even harder as I'm using a flash at f/16. I wouldn't be able to see anything in the EVF!! And the third is at f/16 and 1/8 of a second, that's pretty dim...
davewolfs wrote:
zalmyb wrote
Gosh! I was so excited about this lens, as I really wanted to try out a A7 system (currently using Nikon, mostly shot families and weddings). I don't mind the AF, but why doesn't lens diaphragm close down automatically?! That is beyond ridiculous and is a deal breaker for me. I usually shoot around f/8 (and smaller) at fast moving subjects...Auto Stop Down Lens Diaphragm is not as important in mirrorless unless you have some really unique circumstances. There is a lot of misconception that it is required for some reason.
The only time things get a bit odd is in low light. The EVF can sometimes...Show more →
Dec 06, 2015 at 12:30 AM
p.17 #19Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
I sometimes use my Nikon AiS lenses rather than the Leica ones just because with a Nikon G type adapter I can use the aperture control ring on the adapter like a preset aperture ring, just flick it down from max aperture to the one set on the aperture ring without taking the camera away from the eye.
If they even gave us pre-set rings on the Loxias it would help, something discovered about 60 years ago with slrs
Gerry
If they even gave us pre-set rings on the Loxias it would help, something discovered about 60 years ago with slrs
Gerry
Dec 06, 2015 at 02:47 AM
p.17 #20Zeiss Unveils the Loxia 21mm f/2.8
gyoung143 wrote:
I sometimes use my Nikon AiS lenses rather than the Leica ones just because with a Nikon G type adapter I can use the aperture control ring on the adapter like a preset aperture ring, just flick it down from max aperture to the one set on the aperture ring without taking the camera away from the eye.
If they even gave us pre-set rings on the Loxias it would help, something discovered about 60 years ago with slrs
Gerry
I hear that. And that is a decent workaround, but I wish Sony would make this easier for people like me to switch
I sometimes use my Nikon AiS lenses rather than the Leica ones just because with a Nikon G type adapter I can use the aperture control ring on the adapter like a preset aperture ring, just flick it down from max aperture to the one set on the aperture ring without taking the camera away from the eye.
If they even gave us pre-set rings on the Loxias it would help, something discovered about 60 years ago with slrs
Gerry
I hear that. And that is a decent workaround, but I wish Sony would make this easier for people like me to switch
Dec 08, 2015 at 03:47 PM