Other than the obvious resolution diff, what are your other favorite improvements / features in the 5Ds / 5DsR over the 5D III ?
What are your most missed aspects of the 5D III ?
molson wrote:
I really like the new shutter mechanism in the 5DsR - much smoother and quieter. I almost cringe when I pick up the 5D Mark III now.
After renting the 5DS this summer I frequently drop my 5D3 in horror.
(well intended joke)
If I did weddings or special events, I can use the quiet mode on the 5D3, but 99% of the time I don't care.
I loved the 5Ds obviously for the resolution, but the shutter speed reminded me of the 5D mark 1.
Slow but certainly quite fun for large animals that don't flap their wings a lot. Depends what you want and need.
I didn't test out long exposures at night, but the initial reports I have read here concern me. I have gone 7 minutes repeatedly for an hour on my 5D3 without a worry.
molson wrote:
I really like the new shutter mechanism in the 5DsR - much smoother and quieter. I almost cringe when I pick up the 5D Mark III now.
Gotcha @ notable diff between the regular mode shutters. Is there also a prominent diff in how the "silent" modes compare ... or is "silent" about the same on each?
RustyBug wrote:
Gotcha @ notable diff between the regular mode shutters. Is there also a prominent diff in how the "silent" modes compare ... or is "silent" about the same on each?
Surprisingly, the silent mode on the 5D Mark III is slightly (but noticeably) quieter than the 5DsR
RustyBug wrote:
For those who have made the switch ...
Other than the obvious resolution diff, what are your other favorite improvements / features in the 5Ds / 5DsR over the 5D III ?
What are your most missed aspects of the 5D III ?
The only significant improvement I notice in the 5Ds/R is the resolution, but that is major improvement!
The decrease in framing rate from 6 to 5 is not too bad, but the smaller and slower buffer of the 5Ds/R is quite obvious. The battery life is reduced substantially with LV, though it is not too bad with no LV. Plan for two batteries per day if you used one with the 5D III. The noise at high ISO is partly mitigated by the extra pixels, but somewhere above 1600 I switch to the 1D X, megapickles be damned.
When I rented the 5ds, I noticed a very slight DR improvement, especially with shadows. Also, I think the AWB is a little better. I still adjusted WB in post, it just seemed the starting point was more accurate.
Positive: there is no color shift in slightly underexposed areas in the 5Ds vs. the 5diii - particularly at ISO 800/1600. I don't shoot above 1600 ISO with Canon sensors.
Downside: increased resolution of the 5Ds sensor has me shooting at a higher shutter speed - so I need a higher ISO than 5Diii
See attached photo of typical 5D3 image at 1600 ISO - see the underexposed area of the bird going towards green/yellow...I could not correct for that color shift completely. Then see the 5Ds images of birds in flight I have gotten so far - no color shift.
5Diii at 1600 ISO showing color shift in underexposed area of the bird in flight - see how the underside looks greenish rather than white?
Osprey 1600 ISO with Canon 5Ds - underside looks white.
I was not a fan of the 5D3. It was a temporary fill-in after unexpected loss of seven year old 1DsMK3. I've found the 5Ds a nice blend of the two.
Positives for me, also, are the huge improvement in file resolution, with seemingly more depth than the rather fragile 5D3 files. Raw files can really be worked, even with 50%+ crops. That's awesome and allows for some creative lens usage. Very fast focus w/ newer lenses, but no slower than 5D3 w/ older lenses. Focus and tracking modes seem substantially more accurate in bright light, about the same in extreme low light.
Very pleased with SD card slot upgrade (I shoot raw onto CF, backup jpg onto sd) and general handling is logical extension of previous Canon cameras and menus. My biggest concern was low light (hand held) shooting and I'm pleased to report I found my low light 'keeper' rate about the same as with previous cameras, but those 'keepers' have a ton more info and flexibility in PP. Deep crops, square crops, convert landscapes to portraits, room for perspective adjustments, etc and still end up with big file.
5D3 silent mode definitely quieter compared to 5Ds. Odd they went backwards on that. Probably due to new mirror mechanism, I'm guessing? Yes, the increased resolution of sensor does demand some adjustments with ISO, shutter speed, technique. However, I found the 1DsMK3 had very similar issues (compared to original 5d) and the benefit of more (and better) file info outweighs a few missed shots getting used to changes. Unfortunately 5Ds raw files are not compatible with CS5. DPP4 does the job, but has slowed down PP substantially.
Overall, 5D3 was a better 'run-and-gun' camera, with right settings you could just grab it and start shooting and get a decent shot most of the time. 5Ds takes a few seconds of thinking about and more sensitive settings, but again, the potential for substantially better files makes that trade off ok w/ me.
I also think color and tonality of 5Ds is more like the 1DsMK3 than the 5dIII. Not better or worst than 5D3, just different, sort of an acquired taste :-) I wish I had not had a major trip planned just before it was released so I could have waited for a price drop. But overall, I'm pleased with results and for travel, quite pleased they chose to release this camera as 5 series, not 1D body.
molson wrote:
I really like the new shutter mechanism in the 5DsR - much smoother and quieter. I almost cringe when I pick up the 5D Mark III now.
dgdg wrote:
If I did weddings or special events, I can use the quiet mode on the 5D3, but 99% of the time I don't care. I loved the 5Ds obviously for the resolution, but the shutter speed reminded me of the 5D mark 1. Slow but certainly quite fun for large animals that don't flap their wings a lot.
Surely you mean to write shutter lag, not "speed" !
Actually, ... 5DS shutter lag is 59 ms, exactly the same as the 5D3 and better than the 5D2 (73 ms) and 5D classic (78 ms).
Are you sure you checked the settings (it's a rental camera)? There is a delayed release mode that purposely introduces a lag -- Silent mode. Perhaps you were in that.
I'm sure most photographers would say that for birds in flight burst rate is more of an issue for the 5DS than lag because the 7D2 has a higher rate but essentially the same lag (55 ms).
Further, the 5DS has two silent modes. It is much quieter than the 5D3. Read here for an excellent comprehensive very practical review: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-5Ds.aspx It has this graph of shutter noise: 5D3 on the left:
Hmmm. Canon website says 5 vs 6 fps. Not sure why the 5ds seemed a slower when I rented it. Had a 1066x cf card in. Oh well. It still was a fabulbous camera for me.
dgdg wrote:
Hmmm. Canon website says 5 vs 6 fps. Not sure why the 5ds seemed a slower when I rented it. Had a 1066x cf card in. Oh well. It still was a fabulbous camera for me.
When the battery charge state is less than 50% the 5Ds decreases from 5 FPS to only 3 FPS. There are some custom functions like noise reduction that can also affect FPS. It is usually a solid 5 FPS.
The visual on the sound clip (and link) is cool. But, I must say that after listening to the audio clips of the silent mode, it doesn't really strike me as "silent" or anything remotely close to silent. I think they should have named it something else, like softer, quieter, reduced, subdued, muffled (I'm sure someone could come up with a better word).
It sounds like a "two part" noise has just had a slight amount of extra spacing / delay added to keep the amplitude from spiking @ wave overlap. Almost like a psuedo mini-MLU action splitting the noise creating actions a bit farther apart.
That's a good thing, and it seems to be reducing that peaking "sharpness", but the diff is still pretty far from stealthy as it seems to be the same amount of noise, just spread out a bit to keep the amplitude slightly subdued from the wave amplitude spike.
Improved, in regular mode, but if the audio files are indicative of silent mode ... kinda disappointing, really at still not silent ... despite the naming.
Not anything to keep someone from buying it if they want the MP, but it seems like little reason (on its own) to choose over the MK III either (for nearly double the $$$), I think.
The takeaway ... silent mode likely not much better than the silent mode of the MK III (as mentioned anecdotally above). Which means more noise in the MK III to get 6 FPS (understandable), and similar noise @ single shot in silent mode (or Live View / MLU). Would that be a fair characterization of the audible noise diff's?
Staklo wrote:
I was not a fan of the 5D3. It was a temporary fill-in after unexpected loss of seven year old 1DsMK3. I've found the 5Ds a nice blend of the two.
Very pleased with SD card slot upgrade (I shoot raw onto CF, backup jpg onto sd)
quite pleased they chose to release this camera as 5 series, not 1D body.
"blend of the two" ... interesting way of putting it.
SD slot upgrade
+1 @ surprised it didn't go "flagship" first, like much of Canon typically does.
RustyBug wrote:
For those who have made the switch ...
Other than the obvious resolution diff, what are your other favorite improvements / features in the 5Ds / 5DsR over the 5D III ?
What are your most missed aspects of the 5D III ?
One of the things I like a lot is that switching (in my case from a 5DII) was so easy. For the most part the 5DsR doesn't feel that much like a new camera, which means that I don't have to make a lot of adjustments to how I work — and that made the switch very, very easy.
The reduced battery life in live view is a less positive development, though I simply carry one more battery.
To me, the 5Ds will not replace my 5D3 even though I rented it and I really liked it.
The resolution is amazing, and shutter can be quieter, but tbh, I don't think it is a big enough thing to switch for the 5Ds now. Especially with the next 1D/5D coming.
One of these features would have made me instantly go for the 5Ds:
1. Light metering from selected AF spot (like the 1D). Especially at the price you are paying for it.
2. More clean ISO and higher DR.
Since the 5Ds doesn't have either of these features (a bit clean ISO but not enough for me to care), I'm going to pass on it.
rdcny wrote:
Positive: there is no color shift in slightly underexposed areas in the 5Ds vs. the 5diii - particularly at ISO 800/1600. I don't shoot above 1600 ISO with Canon sensors.
Downside: increased resolution of the 5Ds sensor has me shooting at a higher shutter speed - so I need a higher ISO than 5Diii
See attached photo of typical 5D3 image at 1600 ISO - see the underexposed area of the bird going towards green/yellow...I could not correct for that color shift completely. Then see the 5Ds images of birds in flight I have gotten so far - no color shift.
Kinda hard to tell how much that is from the camera vs. the lighting, as the BG seems to have a (natural) gradient to it, which would allow the camera to assess the WB off the brightest area of the BG. Not sure the 5Ds would have registered that one a whole lot different in that lighting / orientation ... unless the WB (on the 5Ds) was being assessed in concert with the focal spot (which is diff color illumination). Is that a feature of the 5Ds?
Took a stab at some CC of it though (will pull if desired).
Some of my favorite things about the 5DS / 5DS R vs 5D III:
1. "My Menu" is something I use all the time, I put all my most used things there. The 5DS / 5DS R now give you the ability to configure multiple "My Menu" pages and to custom name them. That is fantastic as I need two or three "My Menu" pages to put all my most used menu items. My first one has basic stuff, like Format and Mirror Lockup, etc., and my second one is geared for long exposure (bulb timer) and AEB shooting.
2. Speaking of Mirror Lockup, Canon knocked it out of the park on that feature. With the 5D III, mirror lockup means hitting the shutter button once to move the mirror and hitting it again to take the picture. The 5DS / 5DS R now provide a more automated process where you select a preset delay (1/8, 1/4, 1/2, etc. second) so that when you hit the shutter button, it moves the mirror and takes the picture on the delay you pre-selected. Of course the 5D III's manual lock-up method is preserved as well. This feature is wonderful for maximizing sharpness with hand-held shooting.
3. Bulb timer - great functionality for Long Exposures.
The only thing about the 5D III that I miss is the 22.3 MP resolution for stitched panos. Sometimes I like to stitch multi-row panos using my best lens (Otus 55mm). Doing so with the 5D III delivers more detail and optical excellence than my 11-24mm on the 5DS R. Of course I can still stitch 5DS R images, but sheesh that's a lot more pixels. Too much in my opinion.
Good to know about the MLU in the 5Ds. I have had that feature in my Kodak SLR/C for a long time. It works a slight bit diff, but it is nice to build in the delay so you don't have to "retouch" the camera. I just wish Canon had a mechanical / tactile / physical MLU activation instead of a menu driven one ... but, the "My Menu" does seem to be a help there.
As to the notion of shooting hand-held with MLU ... I've been doing that also with the SLR/C, so I'm with ya on that one.
Thanks for that nugget that many folks might have overlooked. Given that features like this have been part of the reason I've not yet given up my SLR/C ... well, Kodak had such things in 2004 ... 'bout time it starts showing up elsewhere.
