The price difference between a 5D III and a 5DS is the same as a couple of teleconverters. Since the 5DS can replace one teleconverter, the remaining difference to cover the other advantages is quite small. Did I mention that you don't need an external remote control to use Bulb mode or use the intervalometer?
I've never understood why people think a 50MP will be able to easily crop into 20MP for wildlife with longer lenses.
Unless you are largely filling the frame up to perhaps 20MP of the 50MP, the 50MP camera correctly autofocusing at extremely long distances is difficult, no?
So if an animal is at a distance where 7d2+1000mm will put it at 100% full frame
and a 5ds has whichever focal length that will fill above animal at less than 20MP of the frame, let's estimate about 500mm, why is the 5ds better than the 7d2 in this case?
And if the animal doesn't fill the 7d2 combo at 100% full frame, then the 5ds will have even more trouble with AF just due to the sheer distance and small size of animal within frame, so I really don't see how the 5ds is helpful in reach limited situations.
In non-reach limited situations I can see the merit.
kabraxcis wrote:
I've never understood why people think a 50MP will be able to easily crop into 20MP for wildlife with longer lenses.
Unless you are largely filling the frame up to perhaps 20MP of the 50MP, the 50MP camera correctly autofocusing at extremely long distances is difficult, no?
So if an animal is at a distance where 7d2+1000mm will put it at 100% full frame
and a 5ds has whichever focal length that will fill above animal at less than 20MP of the frame, let's estimate about 500mm, why is the 5ds better than the 7d2 in this case?
And if the animal doesn't fill the 7d2 combo at 100% full frame, then the 5ds will have even more trouble with AF just due to the sheer distance and small size of animal within frame, so I really don't see how the 5ds is helpful in reach limited situations.
In non-reach limited situations I can see the merit. ...Show more →
With the same lens, and 5DS cropped to the 20 MP of the 7D II, the autofocus systems of the two cameras have the same challenge because they have the same image projected per area of the AF sensor. The reason why I think the 5DS has an advantage in some cases, is that it is tuned for precision while the 7D II is tuned for speed. You can see this in the AF response times measured by imaging-resource.com. The 5DS AF uses a little more time. This is a disadvantage for fast action, but an advantage for slow action and non-moving subjects. You can also use the center point AF of the 5DS and crop for composition, when the 7DII has to use outer AF points. Lastly, if you go for the R version, it has a small edge on sharpness because of the cancelling AA filter.
alundeb wrote:
The price difference between a 5D III and a 5DS is the same as a couple of teleconverters. Since the 5DS can replace one teleconverter, the remaining difference to cover the other advantages is quite small. Did I mention that you don't need an external remote control to use Bulb mode or use the intervalometer?
I am delighted these cameras now exist and I am glad you and others are making great images with them.
I simply don't accept that they are in any way necessary for the vast majoity of users (including me) and I know they are 'flavour of the month' right now but some perspective is occasionally useful
dhphoto wrote:
I am delighted these cameras now exist and I am glad you and others are making great images with them.
I simply don't accept that they are in any way necessary for the vast majoity of users (including me) and I know they are 'flavour of the month' right now but some perspective is occasionally useful
And another perspective offered in this thread is that the 5DS is not a one trick pony, and depending on what you have and how you set up your system, the value proposition in relation to the 5D III may actually turn out on the positive side even if you never use 50 MP.
Not worth it compared to 5d3 and 7d2? Where are the DR haters reminding us it has less DR than Sony sensor cameras? Insert Debbie Downer sound here!
Nice shots guys and glad you are enjoying and out in the field taking great shots with your 5Ds(R) as have I!
Jeff Nolten wrote:
Thank you Alundeb and DHPhoto for this discussion. Not sure who's camp I fall into but great food for thought.
I don't think you really have to fall into either.
These new cameras are great - groundbreaking even, if you have need for all the pixels (I'm afraid I don't buy into the assumption that downrezzing a 50 meg file to make a 10x8 print means you get more detail than from 20 meg)
But I stand by the statement that for the vast majority 50 meg is overkill and simply not necessary, not when you can make relatively very large prints of excellent quality already.
So for some it's great, for some it's not that important.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
But also, with f5.6 telephoto lenses the 7D2 has outer cross type points while the 5DS only has the center 21.
Yes, but when comparing in a focal length limited situation with the same lens, and the 5DS image cropped, the 21 cross type @ f/5.6 points of the 5DS covers more close to the same area as all the points of the 7D II.
The use of center point AF on the 5DS is most important for f/8 AF though. Then you are locked to the center point with both cameras, but the 5DS offers more flexibility in composition. The AF point is also then aligned with the sharpest part of the lens, and can easily be aligned with the spot metering point.
I think the viewfinder magnification is important for ease of keeping the AF point on a moving target. There the advantage goes to the 7DII.
I usually try to crop in camera but with the 5DsR I've been giving the subject a bit more room. This way I can give my clients a choice between landscape and portrait (if composition permits).
ted1000 wrote:
I usually try to crop in camera but with the 5DsR I've been giving the subject a bit more room. This way I can give my clients a choice between landscape and portrait (if composition permits).
Ted
If I were to buy a 5DS/R one of the benefits I would like would be the ability to make a 33 meg square image.
To you. Which is fine. But when you extend it to other users you get on shaky ground, the shaky ground from which you forecast the 5DS/R would be a flop.
today I had the first opportunity to shoot the 5Ds at 1600 iso...it seems they solved the color shift problem in underexposed areas - those areas looked greenish or yellowish and were very difficult to correct for - see Osprey photo at 1600 iso...looks better than a 1600 iso image from a 5D3 to me.
On the other hand, while 800 iso is smooth and looks great - for me 1600 iso is on the borderline of being too grainy (noisy)...the Sony sensor (eg., the RX-1 that I owned for more than a year) did not produce images this noisy at 1600 iso.
Osprey at 1600 iso - no color shift in underexposed areas compared to 5D3 file at same iso
alundeb wrote:
Yes, but when comparing in a focal length limited situation with the same lens, and the 5DS image cropped, the 21 cross type @ f/5.6 points of the 5DS covers more close to the same area as all the points of the 7D II.
I don't think so. Here are two images of the viewfinders from the digital picture.com. The top is 5DS bottom 7D2. No way the center 21 points in the top viewfinder cover the same area as all the points in the lower. And thats even if the "crop mode" zooms the 5DS viewfinder to the 1.6 crop view as Kona Blue says. Cross type focus points with say a 100-400 lens - Group E on 5DS vs Group B on 7D2.
I'm really trying to decide between these two bodies. With the 5Ds/r I could potentially travel with one body that would give me the general abilities of my 5D3, but better?, with the reach of the 7D2 sans 10 FPS. Since I don't own either I can't just try them and compare.
Konablue wrote:
... If you set the 5DS/R's in-camera crop to a 1.6 crop then it's the same in the viewfinder as the 7D2 and you have more coverage of the AF points. Therefore the animal would be the same size in the viewfinder as it would be with a 7D2.
Unlike the 7D2 crop sensor, the 5DS/R can shoot in crop mode and still record a Full Frame RAW Image with the crop info appended to the file.
Really Konablue? If you set 1.6 crop mode in a 5DS you get the same view through the viewfinder as the 7D2? How does it do that? There is a zoom mechanism in the viewfinder optics? Great news if its true. I'll be looking through the 5DS user manual to see what it says.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
I don't think so. Here are two images of the viewfinders from the digital picture.com. The top is 5DS bottom 7D2. No way the center 21 points in the top viewfinder cover the same area as all the points in the lower. And thats even if the "crop mode" zooms the 5DS viewfinder to the 1.6 crop view as Kona Blue says.
The 21 center points on the 5DS cover the same sensor area as 35 points on the 7DII and that goes a long way to fill the gap. Anyway it's a moot point since with the 5DS you can always use center points and crop if the point is that a 7DII would give better AF coverage over your image area (not viewfinder area).
And no, the 5DS does not have a viewfinder zoom function. The cropped vievfinder is smaller than the 7D II viewfinder.
Monito wrote:
To you. Which is fine. But when you extend it to other users you get on shaky ground, the shaky ground from which you forecast the 5DS/R would be a flop.
It/they largely is/are
Canon knew they wouldn't sell many of such a niche camera and I don't think they are.
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