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Archive 2015Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
p.6 #1Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
tchirath wrote:
While there might be some theoretical benefit with long glass (I'll define that as over 75mm), it's probably pretty marginal. Lloyd Chambers documented improvements with the 50mm APO-Summicron, so it's not strictly a WA thing, but the degree of improvement is certainly less as the exit pupil distance increases and aperture decreases.
MichaelI'm also thinking about the mod. Do you know if it improves anything other than improving corner and edge sharpness?
What Michael said, but I would add that there is a slight improvement in CA control with all lenses (you have less PF, less noticeable LCA, etc.). And really, the irreparable problem most people is facing using these RF lenses is smearing edges/corners. This mod solves exactly that.
mdemeyer wrote
Luvwine wrote
Perhaps I have my head in the sand, but I wonder about how much a Kolari mod will help longer glass. I do still have both the A7r and the A7r2. I have been tempted to get the a7r modded, but the thing is that the A7r2 is actually the camera I prefer to use legacy glass on due to the IBIS and the ability to set shutter speeds combined with auto ISO. I guess I just need a second A7r2, do the mod, and then compare. Don't think that I am going there just yet, however....Michael
What Michael said, but I would add that there is a slight improvement in CA control with all lenses (you have less PF, less noticeable LCA, etc.). And really, the irreparable problem most people is facing using these RF lenses is smearing edges/corners. This mod solves exactly that.
Oct 06, 2015 at 10:17 PM
p.6 #2Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
mdemeyer wrote:
Sharpness is what improves by reducing astigmatism as you move away from the center of the field or, for large aperture lenses, even in the center of the field. There can be changes to field curvature that some have noted. It will move closer to the design characteristics of the lens, if the lens is designed either for film or for a thin (i.e. Leica) sensor stack. Whether that's an improvement or not depends on whether you consider the design characteristic of the lens to be desirable in that regard.
Michael
So what does this mean for long (75mm+) RF glass? No noticeable improvement in sharpness?
tchirath wrote
I'm also thinking about the mod. Do you know if it improves anything other than improving corner and edge sharpness?Michael
So what does this mean for long (75mm+) RF glass? No noticeable improvement in sharpness?
Oct 07, 2015 at 02:04 AM
p.6 #3Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
Zony_user wrote:
mdemeyer wrote
tchirath wrote
I'm also thinking about the mod. Do you know if it improves anything other than improving corner and edge sharpness?Michael
I can only say that I did not see significant differences with my RF lenses 75mm and up, but they are not large aperture lenses (75mm Color Heliar f2.5, 90mm Summarit f2.5, and some older Canon RF glass that's probably not the best test for sharpness, although very usable for photography). People with f1.4 or f1.2 85mm lenses as someone else mentioned, might have different results. I think someone also mentioned slight improvements with a 90mm Contax G f2.8.
For my $, I would not spend the upgrade $ if all I shot were 75mm and up. However, for my wide angles, well worth the $. YMMV, of course.
Michael
Oct 07, 2015 at 04:24 AM
p.6 #4Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
Zony_user wrote:
Sharpness is what improves by reducing astigmatism as you move away from the center of the field or, for large aperture lenses, even in the center of the field. There can be changes to field curvature that some have noted. It will move closer to the design characteristics of the lens, if the lens is designed either for film or for a thin (i.e. Leica) sensor stack. Whether that's an improvement or not depends on whether you consider the design characteristic of the lens to be desirable in that regard.
MichaelSo what does this mean for long (75mm+) RF glass? No noticeable improvement in sharpness?
The question is whether there is any problem in the first place. I have not heard of a single complain for longer RF glass before on stock Sony. If anything, people are happy that they can nail 1.4 and 2 consistently now.
Since you mix and match M-mount with native mount, especially the wider side, modding the cam is a bad move. I have exactly 4 lenses, all M-mount, and the mod shows tremendous improvement on all 4.
mdemeyer wrote
tchirath wrote
I'm also thinking about the mod. Do you know if it improves anything other than improving corner and edge sharpness?Michael
The question is whether there is any problem in the first place. I have not heard of a single complain for longer RF glass before on stock Sony. If anything, people are happy that they can nail 1.4 and 2 consistently now.
Since you mix and match M-mount with native mount, especially the wider side, modding the cam is a bad move. I have exactly 4 lenses, all M-mount, and the mod shows tremendous improvement on all 4.
Oct 07, 2015 at 09:04 AM
p.6 #5Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
You don't see the huge differences as you do with the wide RF. I believe a close look will reveal a difference. You have removed alot of stuff and the result is cleaner shooting.
The curve issues created by the thick cover are reduced as the light rays are not angled so much. But it's still there.
The Sony sensors are just strange.
Charles K has sold his 75 Lux, which did well on the earlier models but was not so nice with the A7r2.
I find the Leica 90/2.5 cleaner on the a7.mod:
Sans Bridle by unoh7, 90/2.5 WO
And I'd much rather have it on my camera than that huge AF Sony 90. This goes double for the monster 25 Batis, which does not have AF as an excuse.
Many find these lens form factors s serious buzz kill
A tiny macro-elmar should easily match the FE90. If it does not, there must be a reason besides the lens, which has off the hook charts and is crazy sharp on the M240.
Edited on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:14 AM · View previous versions
The curve issues created by the thick cover are reduced as the light rays are not angled so much. But it's still there.
The Sony sensors are just strange.
Charles K has sold his 75 Lux, which did well on the earlier models but was not so nice with the A7r2.
I find the Leica 90/2.5 cleaner on the a7.mod:
Sans Bridle by unoh7, 90/2.5 WO
And I'd much rather have it on my camera than that huge AF Sony 90. This goes double for the monster 25 Batis, which does not have AF as an excuse.
Many find these lens form factors s serious buzz kill
A tiny macro-elmar should easily match the FE90. If it does not, there must be a reason besides the lens, which has off the hook charts and is crazy sharp on the M240.
Edited on Oct 07, 2015 at 10:14 AM · View previous versions
Oct 07, 2015 at 10:01 AM
p.6 #6Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
OK thanks guys. I think I'm keeping my A7 bodies unmodified. I like the FE55 and Batis 25 too much for a marginal improvement for my WATE and 90 AA. In fact, I recall someone posting a comparison of the WATE on a A7RII vs M Monochrome, and the WATE did better on the A7RII ?
Oct 07, 2015 at 10:09 AM
p.6 #7Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
Zony_user wrote:
OK thanks guys. I think I'm keeping my A7 bodies unmodified. I like the FE55 and Batis 25 too much for a marginal improvement for my WATE and 90 AA. In fact, I recall someone posting a comparison of the WATE on a A7RII vs M Monochrome, and the WATE did better on the A7RII ?
If you like those lenses and don't mind the size, of course you should not change. That would be crazy.
If you got the mod, the logical thing to do would be to sell them, and get some nice small RF lenses
More logical to my thinking, would be to sell the WATE and get a M9 as second body
You'd have enough left over for a ZM18 too, and no WATE on any Sony or any Leica will touch that lens UWA.
A very careful choice of lenses will make the Sony really sing at 25, 35, 55 and 85/90. Otherwise a D810 is better. And with an equally careful choice of lenses, a M240 or M9, is smaller and nicer.
But you have all the tools to make great shots, right now, no doubt
OK thanks guys. I think I'm keeping my A7 bodies unmodified. I like the FE55 and Batis 25 too much for a marginal improvement for my WATE and 90 AA. In fact, I recall someone posting a comparison of the WATE on a A7RII vs M Monochrome, and the WATE did better on the A7RII ?
If you like those lenses and don't mind the size, of course you should not change. That would be crazy.
If you got the mod, the logical thing to do would be to sell them, and get some nice small RF lenses
More logical to my thinking, would be to sell the WATE and get a M9 as second body
You'd have enough left over for a ZM18 too, and no WATE on any Sony or any Leica will touch that lens UWA.A very careful choice of lenses will make the Sony really sing at 25, 35, 55 and 85/90. Otherwise a D810 is better. And with an equally careful choice of lenses, a M240 or M9, is smaller and nicer.
But you have all the tools to make great shots, right now, no doubt
Oct 07, 2015 at 10:13 AM
p.6 #8Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
uhoh7 wrote:
If you like those lenses and don't mind the size, of course you should not change. That would be crazy.
If you got the mod, the logical thing to do would be to sell them, and get some nice small RF lenses
More logical to my thinking, would be to sell the WATE and get a M9 as second body You'd have enough left over for a ZM18 too, and no WATE on any Sony or any Leica will touch that lens UWA.
A very careful choice of lenses will make the Sony really sing at 25, 35, 55 and 85/90....Show more →
Thanks, I recently sold my 35 Lux, ZM 35/1.4, and 50 Cron IV so it'll be a while before I revert back to the M
I now like to carry two bodies --- Leica Q and A7's. Switching bodies (28mm <-> 55mm) is so quick. And quite light.
If you like those lenses and don't mind the size, of course you should not change. That would be crazy.
If you got the mod, the logical thing to do would be to sell them, and get some nice small RF lenses
More logical to my thinking, would be to sell the WATE and get a M9 as second body
You'd have enough left over for a ZM18 too, and no WATE on any Sony or any Leica will touch that lens UWA.A very careful choice of lenses will make the Sony really sing at 25, 35, 55 and 85/90....Show more →
Thanks, I recently sold my 35 Lux, ZM 35/1.4, and 50 Cron IV so it'll be a while before I revert back to the M
I now like to carry two bodies --- Leica Q and A7's. Switching bodies (28mm <-> 55mm) is so quick. And quite light.
Oct 07, 2015 at 11:46 AM
p.6 #9Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
Zony_user wrote:
If you got the mod, the logical thing to do would be to sell them, and get some nice small RF lenses
More logical to my thinking, would be to sell the WATE and get a M9 as second body You'd have enough left over for a ZM18 too, and no WATE on any Sony or any Leica will touch that lens UWA.
A very careful choice of lenses will make the Sony really sing at 25, 35, 55 and 85/90. Otherwise a D810 is better. And with an equally careful choice of lenses, a M240 or M9, is smaller and nicer.
But you have all the tools to make great shots, right now, no doubtThanks, I recently sold my 35 Lux, ZM 35/1.4, and 50 Cron IV so it'll be a while before I revert back to the M
I now like to carry two bodies --- Leica Q and A7's. Switching bodies (28mm <-> 55mm) is so quick. And quite light.
You have a great setup.
uhoh7 wrote
If you like those lenses and don't mind the size, of course you should not change. That would be crazy.If you got the mod, the logical thing to do would be to sell them, and get some nice small RF lenses
More logical to my thinking, would be to sell the WATE and get a M9 as second body
You'd have enough left over for a ZM18 too, and no WATE on any Sony or any Leica will touch that lens UWA.A very careful choice of lenses will make the Sony really sing at 25, 35, 55 and 85/90. Otherwise a D810 is better. And with an equally careful choice of lenses, a M240 or M9, is smaller and nicer.
But you have all the tools to make great shots, right now, no doubt
I now like to carry two bodies --- Leica Q and A7's. Switching bodies (28mm <-> 55mm) is so quick. And quite light.
You have a great setup.
Oct 07, 2015 at 01:01 PM
p.6 #10Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
uhoh7 wrote:
You don't see the huge differences as you do with the wide RF. I believe a close look will reveal a difference. You have removed alot of stuff and the result is cleaner shooting.
The curve issues created by the thick cover are reduced as the light rays are not angled so much. But it's still there.
The Sony sensors are just strange.
Charles K has sold his 75 Lux, which did well on the earlier models but was not so nice with the A7r2.
I find the Leica 90/2.5 cleaner on the a7.mod:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/741/20560252583_cd9c09fa6c_b.jpg
Sans Bridle by unoh7, 90/2.5 WO
And I'd much rather...Show more →
Lux 75 performs worse on the A7R2? I have not seen any mention about that. If I have to do it again right now, the A7R2 would be my platform of choice for M-mount lenses.
You don't see the huge differences as you do with the wide RF. I believe a close look will reveal a difference. You have removed alot of stuff and the result is cleaner shooting.
The curve issues created by the thick cover are reduced as the light rays are not angled so much. But it's still there.
The Sony sensors are just strange.
Charles K has sold his 75 Lux, which did well on the earlier models but was not so nice with the A7r2.
I find the Leica 90/2.5 cleaner on the a7.mod:
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/741/20560252583_cd9c09fa6c_b.jpg
Sans Bridle by unoh7, 90/2.5 WO
And I'd much rather...Show more →
Lux 75 performs worse on the A7R2? I have not seen any mention about that. If I have to do it again right now, the A7R2 would be my platform of choice for M-mount lenses.
Oct 07, 2015 at 01:07 PM
p.6 #11Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
I also use the Lux 75 on Sony and have not found any issue tho I don't have any Leica M frame of reference. I can readily perform tests on A7r and A7r2 if there is alleged some distinction between those two, which would surprise me.
I am quite happy with the results I see with Leica WATE, Lux 75, 90AA on A7r2. CV 35/1.2 is quite good too. Whehtehr any or all of them would be better on Leica M, I cannot say, but I suspect the improvement would not make up for the greater capability of the Sony sensor advantages tho, again, I could easily be deluding myself.
I am quite happy with the results I see with Leica WATE, Lux 75, 90AA on A7r2. CV 35/1.2 is quite good too. Whehtehr any or all of them would be better on Leica M, I cannot say, but I suspect the improvement would not make up for the greater capability of the Sony sensor advantages tho, again, I could easily be deluding myself.
Oct 07, 2015 at 03:36 PM
p.6 #12Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
I haven't tried the Sony A7Rii but I use a Soney A7R with mainly Leica lenses. I don't have any Sony lenses for it. I don't doubt the native lenses may work better with it but I like the look and feel of Leica lenses better and enjoy being entirely manual. I can't justify the cost of a relatively low tech Leica body, even though I am sure that it would compensate better for its own lenses. I already had most of the Leica lenses before Sony came out with the FF format. So I didn't feel tempted to invest in a set of Sony native lenses.
The Leica lenses I own that are a complete wash out with the A7R are the Super-Elmar 21mm and the Elmarit 28mm, which is a pity because they worked very well on the Sony NEX5N. With the A7R's FF sensor they render hideous magenta fringing that is too much to remove in Lightroom (except by cropping). I don't know if this is still the case on the AR7II. The Voigtlander Ultron 21mm F1.8 and the srew mount 15mm F5.6 (a terrific little lens on the NEX5N) are similarly unusable on the A7r. Steve Huff has said that the magenta fringing problem has gone with the Summicron 28mm on the A7RII. So that might apply to the other WAs as well.
For WA the Leica WATE works well on the A7r. Anything of 35mm and up seems to works well too. The Summilux 35mm can sometimes show a hint of magenta fringe in certain light wide open but it is not a bother. All the Leica 50s work well: Summicron, Summilux and Nocti F0.95 but I find I tend to take the Summicron with me mostly for lightness and compactness. At 90mm the APO Summicron is superb with the A7r and the 135mm Tele-Elmar works OK, although I am not a fan of Leica 135s.
I use the Hawk Helicoid V3 close focus adapter which works well. It is less elegant than the Voigtlander VM adapter but is significantly cheaper and lighter. For macro work the Contax Zeiss 100mm Macro is superb but a close focus adapter on the camera means you can take close-ups spontaneously.
I am not thinking of upgrading to the A7rII, as the only feature it has that I would like is the silent shutter. Other than that its advanate over the A7r seems to be mainly in its better auto focus capabilities which are of no use to me. However, I am also curious to know how it performs with Leica lensese.
The Leica lenses I own that are a complete wash out with the A7R are the Super-Elmar 21mm and the Elmarit 28mm, which is a pity because they worked very well on the Sony NEX5N. With the A7R's FF sensor they render hideous magenta fringing that is too much to remove in Lightroom (except by cropping). I don't know if this is still the case on the AR7II. The Voigtlander Ultron 21mm F1.8 and the srew mount 15mm F5.6 (a terrific little lens on the NEX5N) are similarly unusable on the A7r. Steve Huff has said that the magenta fringing problem has gone with the Summicron 28mm on the A7RII. So that might apply to the other WAs as well.
For WA the Leica WATE works well on the A7r. Anything of 35mm and up seems to works well too. The Summilux 35mm can sometimes show a hint of magenta fringe in certain light wide open but it is not a bother. All the Leica 50s work well: Summicron, Summilux and Nocti F0.95 but I find I tend to take the Summicron with me mostly for lightness and compactness. At 90mm the APO Summicron is superb with the A7r and the 135mm Tele-Elmar works OK, although I am not a fan of Leica 135s.
I use the Hawk Helicoid V3 close focus adapter which works well. It is less elegant than the Voigtlander VM adapter but is significantly cheaper and lighter. For macro work the Contax Zeiss 100mm Macro is superb but a close focus adapter on the camera means you can take close-ups spontaneously.
I am not thinking of upgrading to the A7rII, as the only feature it has that I would like is the silent shutter. Other than that its advanate over the A7r seems to be mainly in its better auto focus capabilities which are of no use to me. However, I am also curious to know how it performs with Leica lensese.
Dec 21, 2015 at 01:47 AM
p.6 #13Sony A7RII with leica standard M lenses?
I use the Ultron 21mm and 35mm on the A7RII - both showed magenta fringing on my previous A7R, but not at all on my current A7RII. The 35mm Ultron shows some field curvature, but manageable if you use hyperfocal focussing. My other lenses - CV 15mm III, Konica M-Hexanon 50 and Elmarit-M 90mm are brilliant on the A7RII. The big advantage I'm finding with the A7RII is the combo of image stabilisation and electronic first curtain - it has brought my CV 180mm ApoLanthar back to life
Dec 23, 2015 at 12:38 AM