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Archive 2015 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.

  
 
leetmode
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p.10 #1 · p.10 #1 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


I have a few stupid questions for you guys that are a lot more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.

For those of you who do bracketing, whether it's single or continuous, what exactly do you guys do when processing those images? Are you guys using the HDR action in Light Room, Photoshop or some other HDR software? Or are you guys doing exposure blending?

If it's exposure blending, are you using LR or PS? Can this be done in Capture One? Do you guys have any recommended tutorials or threads on how exactly exposure blending should be done? I remember reading about this method a while ago and really wanted to give it a try but at the time I think PS was really the only way for it to be done and since my PS skills are practically non existent I never really gave it a shot.

Lastly, for those of us that like to do long exposure shots and normally rely on bulb mode to do so, I understand that putting the camera in Shutter Speed Priority or Manual mode then stacking however many 30 second (or less) shots you need is the best option. So for my last dumb question, should you also bracket those shots as well to get the best results for shadow recovery? In my mind it sort of sounds like a good idea but I'm thinking this could results in all sorts of problems when you stack the images due to the different exposures the PP program will have to deal with. Would it be better to stack each set of exposures from the bracket, then blend the results from each stack and go from there? Or would that be a lot of work for nothing? Would it be better just to ETTR then do shadow recovery after all images have been stacked?

Sorry for all the questions but I'm just trying to understand how I can get the most out of this camera so I'd greatly appreciate any help you guys could give me or at least pointing me in the right direction.



Nov 18, 2015 at 11:16 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.10 #2 · p.10 #2 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


Jon Guilbault wrote:
Gary, because you're bracketing, the drop to 12-bit is irrelevant. You can use continuous bracketing even with silent shutter. The dynamic range you gain from bracketing buries the small loss from shooting 12-bit.


But I want the best of everything! The drop to 12bit for Bulb and LENR can cause issues though....



Nov 18, 2015 at 12:39 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.10 #3 · p.10 #3 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


leetmode wrote:
I have a few stupid questions for you guys that are a lot more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.

For those of you who do bracketing, whether it's single or continuous, what exactly do you guys do when processing those images? Are you guys using the HDR action in Light Room, Photoshop or some other HDR software? Or are you guys doing exposure blending?

If it's exposure blending, are you using LR or PS? Can this be done in Capture One? Do you guys have any recommended tutorials or threads on how exactly exposure blending should be done? I remember
...Show more

I am certainly no expert but may be able to help out a bit.... I (now) combine my bracketed exposures in LR. It is very simple and I have found the results to be very good. If you are wanted to do some detailed exposure blending, most do so in PS (perhaps other software) as LR will not work for this. Youtube has some good videos - search for "blending exposures with luminosity masks". Maybe some experienced PS'ers will chime in regarding the overall process of bracketing exposures/focus and then combining those image files. Hope this helps....



Nov 18, 2015 at 12:49 PM
zhangyue
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p.10 #4 · p.10 #4 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


What is the conclusion of A7R, does it do the same thing drop bit for bulb and continues?


Nov 18, 2015 at 01:22 PM
Gary Clennan
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p.10 #5 · p.10 #5 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


Yep - same thing...


Nov 18, 2015 at 01:31 PM
hiepphotog
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p.10 #6 · p.10 #6 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


Gary Clennan wrote:
I am certainly no expert but may be able to help out a bit.... I (now) combine my bracketed exposures in LR. It is very simple and I have found the results to be very good. If you are wanted to do some detailed exposure blending, most do so in PS (perhaps other software) as LR will not work for this. Youtube has some good videos - search for "blending exposures with luminosity masks". Maybe some experienced PS'ers will chime in regarding the overall process of bracketing exposures/focus and then combining those image files. Hope this helps....


+1, Lightroom HDR (w/o using Auto-tone) and Photoshop HDR Pro are still among the top of my list to handle HDR files, whether simply blending or tone mapping. They give such a natural, smooth tonal look that I can't really replicate anywhere. I also have Oloneo, Photomattix, Nik HDR, and a few obscured others. The only thing Photomattix has over LR/PS is their de-ghosting algorithm. But for a scene that you can see a huge difference, neither would be satisfactory enough (i.e. bracketing in a crowded urban setting).

I'm using Fred's ETTR HDR right now with great success, and it seems that a 3-shot bracket would be enough most of the time. However, this one would require uncompressed RAW since artifacts show up quite readily.

Regarding the 12-bit thing, HDR might be forgiving but Bulb mode would not. Long exposure usually has a smooth look to it so any coarse tonal gradient would be readily visible.



Nov 18, 2015 at 01:48 PM
lsquare
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p.10 #7 · p.10 #7 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


Jon Guilbault wrote:
It's not a 14-bit uncompressed option. It's just uncompressed. So, no, you're still getting reduced bit rate files in all the same modes you were before.


What?



Nov 19, 2015 at 04:17 AM
Jon Guilbault
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p.10 #8 · p.10 #8 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


lsquare wrote:
What?


You're only getting 12 bits of precision in bulb, continuous shooting, continuous bracketing, and silent shutter shooting modes. The camera can't shoot at full precision in those modes regardless of RAW format.

You do get 12-bit files that are not lossy compressed anymore in those modes. In fact, the files aren't compressed at all, lossy, losslessly or otherwise in the new RAW format.

Because the files aren't compressed with Sony's lossy algorithm, they don't exhibit minor posterization at extremely highly contrast edges when pushed about 5 stops in post. That's specifically what this new file format fixes.



Nov 19, 2015 at 06:07 AM
tommieh
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p.10 #9 · p.10 #9 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


So let me get this straight...

One can avoid the 14 bit mode by doing this:

1. Set camera to 2s delay
2. Set camera to Single Bracketing
3. Fire each shot manually via a remote



Feb 05, 2016 at 05:13 AM
mcbroomf
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p.10 #10 · p.10 #10 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


I think you mean "avoid 12 bit mode"

You don't need the 2 secs delay though, and you should not use silent mode



Feb 05, 2016 at 05:48 AM
Blueshound
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p.10 #11 · p.10 #11 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


leetmode wrote:
I have a few stupid questions for you guys that are a lot more knowledgeable about this stuff than I am.

For those of you who do bracketing, whether it's single or continuous, what exactly do you guys do when processing those images? Are you guys using the HDR action in Light Room, Photoshop or some other HDR software? Or are you guys doing exposure blending?

If it's exposure blending, are you using LR or PS? Can this be done in Capture One? Do you guys have any recommended tutorials or threads on how exactly exposure blending should be done? I remember
...Show more

I'm an HDR guy since 2010 (Hi, I'm Brian and I have a problem . . . ). I use and like Photomatix, primarily the Fusion Natural mode, and recently I've used LR's HDR Merge on a few images. I generally like LR's HDR merge, but find it's more prone to blown highlights than Photomatix, and you have more fine-grained control in Photomatix.

There is another option that I've started to explore, and that's to do the basic HDR merge in Photomatix, have Photomatix produce the 32bit radiance (HDR) file, save that, and then open that unprocessed file in Photoshop Camera RAW. ACR is now capable of directly opening and editing the 32bit HDR file.

This workflow is best suited to those who are comfortable with Photoshop, of course. I'd guess you can do the same thing in Lighroom, but I haven't tried. Still getting familiar with this approach, too early to comment. You can also get great and very natural results by doing file merges in PS using luminosity masks, although I'm not as adept at it as I'd like to be.

The image below was merged in LR, and subsequently enhanced in PS. The original brackets were shot on an A7r in single-shot bracketing mode. This image has, by intent, a wee bit more "grunge" than some might like, but I felt it suited the subject, in the sense that it's an old, abandoned mine utility shack. The stylized "look" was a function of subsequent editing steps in PS, not the HDR merge process. The green in the water in front is created by string algae.

Brian

Old Mine Shack by Brian Gammon, on Flickr



Feb 05, 2016 at 08:43 AM
Schlotkins
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p.10 #12 · p.10 #12 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


tommieh wrote:
So let me get this straight...

One can avoid the 14 bit mode by doing this:

1. Set camera to 2s delay
2. Set camera to Single Bracketing
3. Fire each shot manually via a remote


Yea I just want to verify SINGLE shot bracketing on the A7r is 14 bit. If I get it the basic drive modes one should use is:

Single Mode
Self timer
Single Bracket

All of those give 14-bit raws correct?

Thanks,
Chris



May 04, 2016 at 09:10 AM
MJKoski
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p.10 #13 · p.10 #13 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


What is single bracket?

But, single shot mode, up to 30 secs with no bulb (bulb triggers the drop instantly) works. But, this "problem" should be eradicated with FW upgrade and not any lousy bubblegum workarounds.



May 04, 2016 at 09:32 AM
Schlotkins
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p.10 #14 · p.10 #14 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


MJKoski wrote:
What is single bracket?

But, single shot mode, up to 30 secs with no bulb (bulb triggers the drop instantly) works. But, this "problem" should be eradicated with FW upgrade and not any lousy bubblegum workarounds.


In my drive mode menu, I have continuous bracketing and single shot bracketing. My understanding is the former gives you 12 bit files while the later gives you 14 bit.

Chris



May 04, 2016 at 09:44 AM
Gary Clennan
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p.10 #15 · p.10 #15 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


Schlotkins wrote:
In my drive mode menu, I have continuous bracketing and single shot bracketing. My understanding is the former gives you 12 bit files while the later gives you 14 bit.
Chris


Correct. However, you should still do some testing to see if the difference in precision makes a difference to your type of shooting. I tested 12bit vs 14bit for my daylight landscape shots and didn't notice much difference at all. With night shooting involving stars, etc the difference in output becomes more apparent. In that case, I always try to maintain 14bit....



May 04, 2016 at 10:01 AM
Schlotkins
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p.10 #16 · p.10 #16 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


Gary Clennan wrote:
Correct. However, you should still do some testing to see if the difference in precision makes a difference to your type of shooting. I tested 12bit vs 14bit for my daylight landscape shots and didn't notice much difference at all. With night shooting involving stars, etc the difference in output becomes more apparent. In that case, I always try to maintain 14bit....


Thanks Gary! I don't mind doing single shot - just want to make sure I know what modes do what.



May 04, 2016 at 10:04 AM
tommieh
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p.10 #17 · p.10 #17 · A7RII 12-bit mode. How to avoid it.


Schlotkins wrote:
Yea I just want to verify SINGLE shot bracketing on the A7r is 14 bit. If I get it the basic drive modes one should use is:

Single Mode
Self timer
Single Bracket

All of those give 14-bit raws correct?

Thanks,
Chris


I think so (that they give 14-bits). No-one has verified what i wrote though.




May 05, 2016 at 08:40 AM
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