dolina wrote:
Mirrorless to me is any interchangeable lens camera system that has no mirrorbox.
So if the camera cannot change system then it isn't mirrorless by marketing definition.
I think the Leica Q is the most perfect point and shoot out there. This is what the Leica X Typ 113 should have been minus the full frame image sensor.
Just a niggle to "perfect" this camera is the lack of 4K resolution video.
Does it use UHS-II SDXC cards? It should allow for a maximum write speed of 312MB/s.
That implies that there are no fixed lens cameras with a mirror, which isn't the case. For example, meet the Mamiya 528TL. It's got a mirror and a fixed 50mm lens:
Thank you for educating me but I am limiting my scope to cameras sold/manufactured/marketed in the past decade and not decades past.
douglasf13 wrote:
That implies that there are no fixed lens cameras with a mirror, which isn't the case. For example, meet the Mamiya 528TL. It's got a mirror and a fixed 50mm lens:
flash wrote:
The EVF behaviour is the same on the M240. It's either all EVF or all LCD. I don't mind playback in the EVF. I use that a lot. But menus should alwaws be on the LCD.
Gordon
Slight correction to the above: M240 EVF forces image playback in the viewfinder, however menu settings are controlled from the rear LCD display. Like for the Q, I would like a M240 firmware change to allow image review from the LCD while the EVF is on.
Adam, thanks for taking the time to write this up. It's reassuring to know your real-life experience with the camera so far seems pretty much inline with various reviews.
Re: your wife's selfie. Kinda strange yellow tinge to areas of skin tone. Lighting, weird reflections... or is this the profile difficulty you're seeing in LR?
Curious if you can comment on how the maximum aperture value changes at nearer distances. For example, shooting at 1m, 1.5m, 2m+... at what point does it switch from f/1.7 to f/2, etc. Ming Thein commented that max aperture at near distance is f/2.8. I don't think it's that big a deal, but still a bit annoying to have the camera override you.
rscheffler wrote:
Curious if you can comment on how the maximum aperture value changes at nearer distances. For example, shooting at 1m, 1.5m, 2m+... at what point does it switch from f/1.7 to f/2, etc. Ming Thein commented that max aperture at near distance is f/2.8. I don't think it's that big a deal, but still a bit annoying to have the camera override you.
My Nikon 60mm f2.8D AF lens does that too. As you get closer and closer to the subject, the max aperture gets smaller. It's not the camera over-riding you but the physical design of the lens.
My Makro Planar ZF 50mm F2 does not do that. But it is 1/ not AF (if that makes a difference - maybe because the AF motor takes space in the lens barrel) and b/ it is much more expensive.
Desmolicious wrote:
My Nikon 60mm f2.8D AF lens does that too. As you get closer and closer to the subject, the max aperture gets smaller. It's not the camera over-riding you but the physical design of the lens.
My Makro Planar ZF 50mm F2 does not do that. But it is 1/ not AF (if that makes a difference - maybe because the AF motor takes space in the lens barrel) and b/ it is much more expensive.
It's called bellows compensation and is the loss of illumination due to bellows extension.
Both your 60/2.8D and ZF 50/2 do it, for a total of 1 stop at 1:2 and 2 stops at 1:1 (actual values may be different for IF macro's, but both of these lenses are traditional helical extension focus). The difference is that the 60/2.8D reports it back to the camera to show you effective aperture, where the ZF 50 does not and only gives physical aperture
Only a handful of macro lenses do not behave in this manner, the only one in Nikon mount is the old and rare auto-compensating 55/3.5, the rarest variant of that otherwise common lens. It has an aperture-helical connection that compensates for bellows extension by opening up the aperture as you focus closer and thus you lose no stops at 1:2 and only 1 at 1:1 (which is achieved with an extension tube)
Thanks for such an interesting first hand look at this new camera. You've provided more detailed and more relevant info about it than most (perhaps all) of the online review sites and gear bloggers. Online reviews typically miss the fine points of camera usage, including the little annoyances that cameras have for busy photographers who need their cameras to work right and to work fast. I absolutely love the look of this camera, but not having tried it myself I already know that your #1 BIGGEST GRIPE would also be my #1 BIGGEST GRIPE too, notwithstanding the [wrong] opinion of the person from Leica.
Still looks like a good camera, though. Nice selfie too!
P.S. The rattling is most likely from the image stabilization mechanism, no? These typically involve some rattling just from moving a camera in ones hands.
flash wrote:
The EVF behaviour is the same on the M240. It's either all EVF or all LCD. I don't mind playback in the EVF. I use that a lot. But menus should alwaws be on the LCD.
I don't know where you heard that the SF26 didn't have TTL on the M240. It does. Or at least mine does. It just doesn't have FEC. Though to be honest I'm mostly using the rather wonderful Nissin i40 in manual mode. Wish Nissin would make one for Leica TTL.
Thanks for the report on the Q. I have a 28 'cron so I'll stick with that. But the Q is a gas camera for sure.
dolina wrote:
Mirrorless to me is any interchangeable lens camera system that has no mirrorbox.
So if the camera cannot change system then it isn't mirrorless by marketing definition.
I think the Leica Q is the most perfect point and shoot out there. This is what the Leica X Typ 113 should have been minus the full frame image sensor.
Just a niggle to "perfect" this camera is the lack of 4K resolution video.
Does it use UHS-II SDXC cards? It should allow for a maximum write speed of 312MB/s.
rscheffler wrote:
Slight correction to the above: M240 EVF forces image playback in the viewfinder, however menu settings are controlled from the rear LCD display. Like for the Q, I would like a M240 firmware change to allow image review from the LCD while the EVF is on.
Adam, thanks for taking the time to write this up. It's reassuring to know your real-life experience with the camera so far seems pretty much inline with various reviews.
Re: your wife's selfie. Kinda strange yellow tinge to areas of skin tone. Lighting, weird reflections... or is this the profile difficulty you're seeing in LR?
Curious if you can comment on how the maximum aperture value changes at nearer distances. For example, shooting at 1m, 1.5m, 2m+... at what point does it switch from f/1.7 to f/2, etc. Ming Thein commented that max aperture at near distance is f/2.8. I don't think it's that big a deal, but still a bit annoying to have the camera override you....Show more →
The weird colors are 100% from the sensor/LR.. Something's not quite right with LR and the Leica Q. Though something isn't quite right when I force the camera on manual white balance either. I wonder why nobody has mentioned it.. For the LR issue, It's almost like you get a range of 500K to play with, and anything in that range shifts from insanely blue to insanely orange. Like they've compressed the scales or something, and LR with it's 50k increments isn't fine enough anymore. And for the manual WB issue. I have a series of 10 images and the color shift between said ten images is so bad you'd think I was using a cheep china strobe or worse that someone was behind me waving coloured gels.
I actually don't think so. I think what he meant was on macro mode it switches to 2.8 it's consistent throughout the range. Or if it isn't consistent, then it doesn't let you know, and just puts out a bit more noise. I'll have to investigate this, but it could be the whole 50L trick all over again. From initial testing it doesn't do this... I wasn't able to test it that well last night, but today in the daylight it seems it stays consistent. Will shoot with it all day, and report back if something seems off.
Desmolicious wrote:
My Nikon 60mm f2.8D AF lens does that too. As you get closer and closer to the subject, the max aperture gets smaller. It's not the camera over-riding you but the physical design of the lens.
My Makro Planar ZF 50mm F2 does not do that. But it is 1/ not AF (if that makes a difference - maybe because the AF motor takes space in the lens barrel) and b/ it is much more expensive.
Yes, we agree with you, but that's not what he's talking about. This happens with ALL macro lenses to some extent or another. The Nikon 105VR does this to, but Nikon lets you know it's happening, especially with a lens that does it to a large extent, buy giving you "equivalnt" EXIF info. Whereas with the last X, it wasn't so much a lens design issue more then it was LEICA actually feeling the need to make the camera aperture blades stop down, to keep quality consistent. So I suppose in theory they did it because of the IQ, but they didn't "have to" make the choice for you. Or so it seemed when I was playing with one.
The Q doesn't seem to do this, but I only did a few quick tests. I'll examine this more further.
I think best to take a look at STEVEHUFF review of the X w/1.7 lens. He mentions it.
zlatko wrote:
Thanks for such an interesting first hand look at this new camera. You've provided more detailed and more relevant info about it than most (perhaps all) of the online review sites and gear bloggers. Online reviews typically miss the fine points of camera usage, including the little annoyances that cameras have for busy photographers who need their cameras to work right and to work fast. I absolutely love the look of this camera, but not having tried it myself I already know that your #1 BIGGEST GRIPE would also be my #1 BIGGEST GRIPE too, notwithstanding the [wrong] opinion of the person from Leica.
Still looks like a good camera, though. Nice selfie too!
P.S. The rattling is most likely from the image stabilization mechanism, no? These typically involve some rattling just from moving a camera in ones hands....Show more →
I hope it's normal... But I will also investigate this further. I'm going to go shake me some Leica Qs today!
Also please forward your praise to Leica I think I sold more cameras at the event then the people working it. Like 20 people were asking me about this and that.. I guess I just looked like someone who knew what they were doing. And honestly, I think that's the beauty of the Q. Once you familiarise yourself with the basic settings, it's not much different then an M on the streets.
One thing I would however ask Leica to add to the menu, and I will once I get a response over the whole EVF thing.. Is that there has to be a direct custom function button that allows you to change AF modes on the fly. Not AFS AFC I don't care about that.. I mean one point, face recognition etc.. What it should be like is this:
AF type 1
AF type 2
AF type 3
AF type 4
AF type 5
Then you pick either 1, 4, 5 or 1,3 only.. That kinda thing. Then when you hit the FN button it just cycles through the 1-5 AF options that you have checked off.. This would allow you to be quick with changing af, and you could avoid those unnecessary AF modes, like touch screen (which is ok, at least it works).
adamdewilde wrote:
I actually don't think so. I think what he meant was on macro mode it switches to 2.8 it's consistent throughout the range. Or if it isn't consistent, then it doesn't let you know, and just puts out a bit more noise. I'll have to investigate this, but it could be the whole 50L trick all over again. From initial testing it doesn't do this... I wasn't able to test it that well last night, but today in the daylight it seems it stays consistent. Will shoot with it all day, and report back if something seems off.
That was my understanding as well, that in macro mode, the camera switches automatically to f/2.8 or smaller.
Can't wait to see more shots once you get fully in the flow with Q
Thanks, I know you with your love of the 28cron will find this camera appealing!
Lack of weather sealing will kinda destroy this camera's versatility for you on the slopes though
I actually have a good amount of time this month, as I'm not really suppose to be here. I was actually suppose to be overseas.. So most of my clients think I'm out of town. Save for one or two.
Next month will get hectic, but I will get to use the Q for a wedding on the 4th of July, and will report back. Unfortunately I think I'll need the SF26 for a lot of the shots, so it'll be less about the IQ and more about the usability of Q w/flash. And it's integration with M240 colors.
And perhaps mid month I'll bring it along with my S-system to see how it holds up as a "quick snaps" wide angle camera.
adamdewilde wrote:
I actually don't think so. I think what he meant was on macro mode it switches to 2.8 it's consistent throughout the range. Or if it isn't consistent, then it doesn't let you know, and just puts out a bit more noise. I'll have to investigate this, but it could be the whole 50L trick all over again. From initial testing it doesn't do this... I wasn't able to test it that well last night, but today in the daylight it seems it stays consistent. Will shoot with it all day, and report back if something seems off.
edwardkaraa wrote:
That was my understanding as well, that in macro mode, the camera switches automatically to f/2.8 or smaller.
OK, I see. The comment by Ming Thein was kind of vague too, so this is good to know.
I hope the color problem is just LR lacking profiles, or something like that. So far images I've seen in various reviews looked pretty good in this respect. Only concern I have is some of MT's images do show shadow banding.
adamdewilde wrote:
The Q doesn't seem to do this, but I only did a few quick tests. I'll examine this more further.
I think best to take a look at STEVEHUFF review of the X w/1.7 lens. He mentions it.
Ming Thien mentions it in his comments of his review - it goes down to 2.8.
I think this is simply a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I remember people complaining about the Fuji X100 suffering from a lot of spherical aberration when taking close-ups. The manual even calls it out and recommends using at least f/4.0 for macro, but people still complained. Leica simply chose to go the opposite route, and also got complains.
Personally I think a custom setting that allows you to turn the feature on/off would be a good middle ground, though I suspect even then people will still complain. Can't win em all!
