fredmiranda.com

Moderated by: Fred Miranda

New fredmiranda.com Mobile Site

New Feature: SMS Notification alert

New Feature: Buy & Sell Watchlist

FM Forums | Leica & Alternative Gear | Join Upload & Sell

1 2

4 … 21 22 end

Archive 2015 · Leica Q: First impressions.

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #1 · Leica Q: First impressions.

rscheffler wrote:
OK, I see. The comment by Ming Thein was kind of vague too, so this is good to know.

I hope the color problem is just LR lacking profiles, or something like that. So far images I've seen in various reviews looked pretty good in this respect. Only concern I have is some of MT's images do show shadow banding.

Yes there is definitely banding, and and general it's really very digital and distracting. But I've come to accept it long ago, and it doesn't show up until 25,000 in most cases that I've shot in thus far.. Though I need to shoot a lot more to really say.

Jono said it's a LR problem that is being addressed.
Though it still doesn't negate my JPG phenomena where as when I shoot with a fixed WB, it still does what it wants, shifts at least 700k per shot, and the tint runs amuck.

Basic non WB/Tint/Color workflow like anything curves or brightness related is fine. And since auto WB is pretty good in natural light (suffers in flo light a lot), I think it's safe to say the camera is very usable, and you can easily create images with POP.. Which is good, as I have a feeling it'll only get better once the kinks are worked out.

Jun 12, 2015 at 02:10 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #2 · Leica Q: First impressions.

atwl77 wrote:
Ming Thien mentions it in his comments of his review - it goes down to 2.8.

I think this is simply a case of damned if you do, damned if you don't. I remember people complaining about the Fuji X100 suffering from a lot of spherical aberration when taking close-ups. The manual even calls it out and recommends using at least f/4.0 for macro, but people still complained. Leica simply chose to go the opposite route, and also got complains.

Personally I think a custom setting that allows you to turn the feature on/off would be a good middle ground, though I...Show more →

Umm.. What I was saying is that the X actually does do this no matter what. The Q doesn't seem to do this UNLESS you switch it to macro mode. Then yes 2.8 is the max. But in normal close focusing my Q hasn't switched setting on me, and side by sides look almost exactly the same from 2m to .3m as far as brightness in manual exposure is concern.

Let me go run this test again.. A little more "scientific" this time.

EDIT: Ok, I just tried this test again. The aperture DOES NOT SWITCH when in normal shooting mode. It does in Macro mode only. As I've said initially.

Just to add: I just noticed purple color cast (voigtlander M240 style), but CA and other issues aren't obvious in todays weather (not like what you would see with say a 100MPZE, or almost any 85mm zeiss lens, or what you'd see in any 35mm lens). As soon as the rain stops, I'll go outside.

Oh and just to add again. I haven't examined the grain.. So Leica could be switching and not saying anything, by just adding the equivalent light sensitivity to compensate the aperture.. This is something Canon has done in the past with the 50L and it's Tstop problem (you can look it up).

And I'm starting to think this sensor is Canon tech

Kidding, kidding, serious kidding (but it's not impossible).

Jun 12, 2015 at 02:12 AM

atwl77
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #3 · Leica Q: First impressions.

adamdewilde wrote:
Umm.. What I was saying is that the X actually does do this no matter what. The Q doesn't seem to do this UNLESS you switch it to macro mode. Then yes 2.8 is the max. But in normal close focusing my Q hasn't switched setting on me, and side by sides look almost exactly the same from 2m to .3m as far as brightness in manual exposure is concern.

Ah, ok, thanks for the clarification.

Jun 12, 2015 at 02:23 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #4 · Leica Q: First impressions.

Let's call it a rolling review!
More rablings:

Even when you set your EVF/LCD to LOW brightness, your LCD/EVF is still roughly 1/2 a stop brighter then your actual out of camera JPG. Which sucks a little, but just something you should always remember to compensate for.
Yes I have the proper WYSIWYG settings turned on. I'm far from an overenthusiastic newb. I just write like one

I always set my LCD/EVF to min brightness, because your eyes will adjust to it, and that way you won't be tricking yourself into taking the wrong exposures. The Q isn't the only EVF camera that suffers from this, it's just a shame as it's only 1/2 stop away at most. Just remember to manually compensate.

ONE more thing that bothers me about the Q, and it's just weird to me as an M user. The Aperture is in 1/3 stops, so unlike Leica. The shutter dial is in full stops (weird but quick)! And the ISO is in full stops YAY, I love full stop ISO! If they had made the aperture half stops, and shutter half stops, I'd have been happiest. Though who doesn't tweak the brightness in LR? So really I guess it doesn't matter that much, it'll just be hard to go back and forth between this and the M on the fly, since I mainly use full manual at work. I like the challenge tho!

Also, and every EVF I've used does this. You see brilliant bright vibrant colors in the EVF and LCD. The second you take the photo the JPG is more muddy then what you saw. I don't know why there's no jpg setting that'll give you the EVF/LCD live view look without the overcooked nature of upping your saturation on the jpg files.
It's kinda a confidence buster when you're in the zone shooting, and then ten minutes later you review images and everythings a bit more flat then it was looking through the EVF. Hey, with a little work, raw files can look better then the EVF, but again, if the EVF shows me something, my JPG should follow through. Even if that mean muting the colors on the EVF/LCD when in live view/shooting.
(actually scratch that.. I've noticed that the M240 EVF is more true to color vibrancy with the JPGs, but the JPGS can be a bit more contrasty then the EVF lets on, and brightness is still a problem)

Jun 12, 2015 at 02:35 AM

atwl77
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #5 · Leica Q: First impressions.

I'm with you on the half-stops there. This design feels a lot like the Fuji X100 series where I assume they want you to fine-tune your exposure with aperture and not shutter speed. I suppose in the old film days that was one way of doing it, but my shooting style is more towards fine-tuning shutter speed while keeping aperture constant.

Jun 12, 2015 at 02:55 AM

unravel
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #6 · Leica Q: First impressions.

Thank you for the review, just curious, how is the blackout on the EVF? Especially since you shot Sony series, if you could use that as a comparison. This is the only thing that i dont like about mirrorless systems tbh.

Jun 12, 2015 at 05:10 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #7 · Leica Q: First impressions.

unravel wrote:
Thank you for the review, just curious, how is the blackout on the EVF? Especially since you shot Sony series, if you could use that as a comparison. This is the only thing that i dont like about mirrorless systems tbh.

The blackout time is faster then a DSLR can bring up and bring down it's mirror. I would say almost on par with a non-1series Canon. Or on par for all intents and purposes. I actually haven't gone to my studio yet to do a comparison, it could be faster.. It's a non-issue in shooting single frame.
BUT it slows down when shooting continuos frames.. Then it feels more sluggish then the 1Dx/5DIII for sure. Much quicker then the A7II

Oh and focus tracking is good. I was walking backwards, my wife was walking at a decent pace, and all the shots were in focus.. Which I think is harder for a wide angle to be honest, as it has so much contrast packed into such a small space. Her head was like 10% of the frame maybe? This was of course in bright light. I think the 5D3 would have had some missed frames here, just on the erratic way two people were walking against each other.

Jun 12, 2015 at 05:53 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #8 · Leica Q: First impressions.

I think a interchangeable Q system is what everyone wants. And I'd like to point out that Leica has done pretty well with the Q design. So hopefully an interchangeable Q will be here soon.

A few other annoying points after a few hours of shooting. Battery life no fantastic, but not horrible.

Having the shutter dial control 1 stop adjustments then having the thumb wheel also controlling shutter speeds but in half stops is kinda strange. They should have made the shutter dial half stops. Then used the scroll wheel to scroll through AF types or something useful like maybe exposure compensation.

Also, I don't know if I'm doing this wrong, but I can't find the setting where you have it on WYSIWYG constantly, not just on half pressed shutter. The M240 has both options available to the user.. Maybe I'm just tired today of looking at menus. I'll check again tomorrow.

Jun 12, 2015 at 05:55 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #9 · Leica Q: First impressions.

atwl77 wrote:
I'm with you on the half-stops there. This design feels a lot like the Fuji X100 series where I assume they want you to fine-tune your exposure with aperture and not shutter speed. I suppose in the old film days that was one way of doing it, but my shooting style is more towards fine-tuning shutter speed while keeping aperture constant.

Yeah, but it's never been Leica's way right?
I'm looking at my M and S, and I'm thinking that they "make sense" this doesn't really seem to. It's almost as if Leica wants you to fine tune in LR or something. I don't think at this point the shutter dial could be swapped out. They're already in to deep. But maybe the future Q will have half stops like it should. BTW, I'm perfectly fine with full stops for ISO, I think it makes it quicker. But aperture and shutter needs half stops. Since those are the easiest controls to access, and have the most effect on your images.

Jun 12, 2015 at 05:57 AM

Desmolicious
Online
• • • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #10 · Leica Q: First impressions.

Thanks for the rolling review Adam, I've learned more from this than any of the other sites.

Jun 12, 2015 at 09:47 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #11 · Leica Q: First impressions.

More good news, I went into my bathroom turned off all the lights, so I was essentially being lit by non directional diffused moon light. Basically I couldn't really see what was what. The camera locked focus on letters on a bottle, and it did it pretty quick. ISO50,000 + 15th of a second + 1.7 so it was max possibility of the camera DARK. Image looks crappy, but a quick convert to black and white, and a few curves adjustment and it's something you'd think could be shot on film (save for the unfortunate but subtle banding that pops up once in every few 50,000 ISO images). I'd put it up, but my bathroom is a mess.

Tomorrow if it doesn't rain, I'll be taking pictures of a equal rights protest with the camera.. Just for fun, nothing serious, but it'll give me a chance to play with the setup and actually post some realistic photos.

Also the SF24D although doesn't work on TTL, works really well on A mode though, if you set the settings on the flash to match those on the camera.. It's pretty accurate and something I could probably use in a work environment if I had to.

The 58 works ok, but is ridiculous on the Q, it's gonna stay on the S-system for now.
And the SF26 although small and neat, probably isn't worth the money, so hopefully the METZ version of the 26 will have no problems working on the Q, since it's cheaper by a lot.

Jun 12, 2015 at 09:48 AM

rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #12 · Leica Q: First impressions.

Yeah, I also thought 1/3 stop increments on the lens was a bit odd. It's like shooting ZM glass on an M, which at first, 5 years ago, I was all for and thought I would prefer over Leica's half stop aperture increments. But the reality is, as you said, I'm always tweaking files afterwards. With the robustness of the files and modern sensors, there's no big deal about being off a half stop, or more.

Like Adrian (atwl77), I tend to settle on an aperture and change the shutter speed accordingly, unless it's a situation with a lot of movement. I'm glad that at least the shutter speed settings when using the thumb dial work in half stops. But yeah, it's going to feel a bit odd seeing the shutter speed at something like 1/2000 but it's actually exposing at some other value.

On the other hand, 1/3 stop ISO increments is something I kinda use on the M, but generally when working in the 800-3200 range, in part due to the 'crossover quirk' between 1000 and 1250 that drops the frame rate. Assuming the Q doesn't have such a quirk, I guess full stops is fine, but for some reason, it does feel a bit 'amateur.' Then again, if like with some cameras, the intermediate settings would have been 'fake' settings (the camera actually still working in full stops and pushing/pulling images in-camera to achieve the effect of intermediate ISO values), then full stops is definitely preferred...

Adam, maybe you touched on it, but I've missed it... do you feel the start up time is fast? With the M I leave it on and disable the sleep option because of the insane wake and startup delays. But at least the M battery is very deep and I generally only need 2-3 if shooting 12-14 hours.

Oh, and if anything, the Q should be an incentive for Leica to release a flash somewhere between tiny and low power and huge and unwieldy... with full decent bounce adjustments like a high-end flash. And to ensure it also works on the M. I'm tired of using my Canon 600EXRTs in M or A modes... I've thought about the Nissin i40, but would prefer to have TTL and HSS...

Jun 12, 2015 at 10:21 AM

atwl77
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #13 · Leica Q: First impressions.

rscheffler wrote:
Oh, and if anything, the Q should be an incentive for Leica to release a flash somewhere between tiny and low power and huge and unwieldy... with full decent bounce adjustments like a high-end flash. And to ensure it also works on the M. I'm tired of using my Canon 600EXRTs in M or A modes... I've thought about the Nissin i40, but would prefer to have TTL and HSS...

Oh yes, this, absolutely. For me, I'm either using the big honkin' 600EXRT for power and control, the smaller Metz 36C2 with its clunky little plastic switches, or the tiny Metz 20C2 with painfully slow recycle time.

It's definitely high time they produced something the size of a 430EX or i40 with TTL.

Jun 12, 2015 at 10:44 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #14 · Leica Q: First impressions.

rscheffler wrote:
Yeah, I also thought 1/3 stop increments on the lens was a bit odd. It's like shooting ZM glass on an M, which at first, 5 years ago, I was all for and thought I would prefer over Leica's half stop aperture increments. But the reality is, as you said, I'm always tweaking files afterwards. With the robustness of the files and modern sensors, there's no big deal about being off a half stop, or more.

Like Adrian (atwl77), I tend to settle on an aperture and change the shutter speed accordingly, unless it's a situation with a lot of...Show more →

The thumb dial only lets you deviate from the speed set on the shutter by if I remember correctly 1 stop plus and one stop minus.. So it wouldn't be killer if you accidentally knocked the thumb wheel.

I turn the camera off when I put it down. The second I go to pick it up, i'm trying to make it a habit to turn it on, so I can shoot the second the camera hits my eyes. Sometimes I forget and I'm not frustrated at all since it starts up, focuses and shoots if i hold the shutter in 1 second (better then the M-P by far). Though I like the idea of being in the habit of flicking the switch as I grab the camera.

Yeah I hope they do. With Metz the way it is, I don't know who'll make their flashes though.
I actually used 3x 600EX-RT on M mode and it worked fine on the S-system. I've since sold the flashes off, as I'm almost out of Canon completely. And honestly, I really do feel the Q is quick, but I will only be shooting a wedding with it July 4th, so until then I can't really say if it's going to work for me professionally. Though I think it will, at least as a quick snap camera.

The indent for the thumb is pretty awesome!

Jun 12, 2015 at 11:54 AM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #15 · Leica Q: First impressions.

, so my wife just emailed me this link to her blog: http://www.emilyloke.com/life/photography-life/first-impressions-of-the-leica-q/

I told her about my rolling review.. And she wrote one to show me how it's done. Also so the rest of you can use it to convince your wives that you need a Leica Q also.

Jun 12, 2015 at 12:04 PM

juju1958
Offline
• • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #16 · Leica Q: First impressions.

adamdewilde wrote:

Jun 12, 2015 at 12:09 PM

zlatko
Offline
• •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #17 · Leica Q: First impressions.

adamdewilde wrote:
Having the shutter dial control 1 stop adjustments then having the thumb wheel also controlling shutter speeds but in half stops is kinda strange. They should have made the shutter dial half stops. Then used the scroll wheel to scroll through AF types or something useful like maybe exposure compensation.

That is strange. Of course the shutter dial should be in half stops.

Jun 12, 2015 at 12:30 PM

rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #18 · Leica Q: First impressions.

adamdewilde wrote:
Yeah I hope they do. With Metz the way it is, I don't know who'll make their flashes though.
I actually used 3x 600EX-RT on M mode and it worked fine on the S-system. I've since sold the flashes off, as I'm almost out of Canon completely. And honestly, I really do feel the Q is quick, but I will only be shooting a wedding with it July 4th, so until then I can't really say if it's going to work for me professionally. Though I think it will, at least as a quick snap camera.

The indent for the thumb...Show more →

Interesting that the thumb dial only goes +/- one stop. I guess that makes sense.
Thanks also for the start up timing impression.

Do you think the Q is fine with the thumb grip as it is, or would it be even better with some kind of thumbs-up? I use those with the M9 and M240 and find it greatly improves handling so that I don't need a contoured grip on the front. Other reviews have said the Q is too slippery, or that the thumb notch is not ideal. I guess that latter will be quite subjective due to each person's hand size and preferences. Maybe your supple, well moisturized hands allow better grip ?

OT: were you shooting 3x 600EXRTs with off brand radio slaves, or were you somehow able to get Canon's radio system to work? I tried a multi-flash set up with the M240, using the ST-E3-RT transmitter, but unsurprisingly, it wouldn't trigger the flashes (which were set to manual power output).

Jun 12, 2015 at 01:38 PM

adamdewilde
Offline
• • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #19 · Leica Q: First impressions.

No, it's so light weight that you wouldn't need anything other then the depression. And if the new M had one of those, I think it would sort of work, but it would need to be slightly deeper for a body as heavy as the M240. And even then, probably not as functional as a thumbs up is. Though I find the M fits nicely in my hand, so maybe I'm not the right person to ask (especially since I don't like the thumbs up). One thing I will say, my fingers are long, so the Q can feel a bit small.. And yeah as I mentioned above, the Q vulcanite doesn't grip well, but looks cool.

One flash on the camera, two flashes off camera. Everything was manual mode. The main flash triggered the two sub flashes. No transmitter, it doesn't work with the Leica bodies.

Jun 12, 2015 at 03:12 PM

rscheffler
Offline
• • • • • •
Upload & Sell: Off

p.3 #20 · Leica Q: First impressions.

Doh! I didn't even think about using the optical trigger mode and was so set on using the radio transmitter. Just tried it with a master flash on the M240 and it worked, of course, allowing me to set manual power output on the slaved flashes remotely... I guess I just wanted the ST-E3-RT to work so badly because it's small. One caveat was a dark band at 1/180, though 1/125 was OK.

I see what you mean by long fingers looking at that photo of you with the Q in your wife's blog post... your grip looks a bit... weird.

Edited on Jun 12, 2015 at 03:44 PM · View previous versions

Jun 12, 2015 at 03:42 PM

1 2 3 4 … 21 22 end
FM Forums \| Leica & Alternative Gear \| Join Upload & Sell 1 2 3 4 … 21 22 end