p.3 #1 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Brian Hansen wrote:
I can't understand how people feel they should have that same freedom after that day. I certainly don't expect it and realize it is for mine and my families benefit.
wow what an amazingly stupid statement...
im sorry but that really bothers me like to no end...
im sure your children when they are being followed 24/7 by government agencies will appreciate your non-action
p.3 #2 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
whoa whoa... this is veering more and more away from unfair treatment of photographers to a political and patriotic thread. That's going to get this thread locked. Please take it easy, guys.
Oct 04, 2004 at 06:17 PM
Guest Offline Guest
p.3 #3 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Did you have to write this thread, now I'm pissed
Hopefully the cops will find a middle ground to there judgments of over doing it.
There doing what there told or not get a weekly check.
Funny thing is if it were a Jihads SOB, he would be passed up for us lovers of photography
p.3 #4 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Natron wrote:
whoa whoa... this is veering more and more away from unfair treatment of photographers to a political and patriotic thread. That's going to get this thread locked. Please take it easy, guys.
i agree, but the problem is... it starts with photographers that are "suspicious" then it goes to regular people who were looking around "suspicious"
then it turns into everyone being watched incase they do something "suspicious"
you see?
if there isnt a stop to it now, it will NEVER stop
anywho, i really dont think the guy should have just taken it, he should complain to everyone he can and not stop until somone answers him...
all we teach in school to our kids is that everyone is equal and you shouldent judge people becuase they are different...
oh almost forgot, unless they are arab then they might be a terrorist
Edited by FLECOM on Oct 04, 2004 at 06:26 PM GMT
Oct 04, 2004 at 06:23 PM
blues44fan Offline • • [X]
p.3 #5 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Brian Hansen wrote:
I can't understand how people feel they should have that same freedom after that day. I certainly don't expect it and realize it is for mine and my families benefit.
....because as far as I know the Constitution of the United States of America hasn't been replaced by a post 9/11 version. Police following up a "legitimate" report of "suspicious" activity is completely understandable. This was a clear cut case of harrassment. After the "security" guard got his panties in a wad because the author refused to bow to his "authority", things got way out of hand for that young man. After a couple of questions by the police they should have left ................ plain and simple !!!! I am all for the safety and protection of our citizens but things are out of hand.
p.3 #6 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Ok Guys..
I HATE getting drawn in to these type of debates (ie political) but...
This board is a multi-ethnic board and it is one of the things I like about it. As I said earlier, I lived for a while in northern Ireland and grew up for a lot of my life just outside it (when I say just I mean about 1/2 mile!). I witnessed my first death by violence when I was 11. I learned everything I ever want to know about hatred there - usually mindless, unreasoning hate that had no basis in reality but fed a system that involved the state and terrorist organisations in equal measures.
Security organisations (Call themwhat you will, homeland security, MI5, KGB, whatever) thrive in conflict situations. Their budgets go up, their requests for more personnel cannot be denied because who knows when the the "enemy" will strike next. In the meantime, joe citizen is asked, "What price freedom", do we really have to give the same rights to all? What about (fill in ethnic minority here) , they are a threat to your kids, you livelyhood, your safety. The arguements are sometimes valid but, they erode someones rights...
I ahve always admired the US, the openness, the ability to integrate, the potential for everyone regardless of race or creed to succeed. If you lose that you lose part of yourselves.
Every freedom you give up in the name of security is a win for terrorism, Remember that most terror groups envy what you have and want to take it away from you - don't allow them to win in the name of safety...
I know this rambles a bit but I hope that the message is clear enough. Terrorism can only win if you let it. In order to let it win you have got to let the state(call it "them" if you wish) to take away that which the terrorists envy the most - your freedom.
The loss of freedoms can be an insidious thing. It can start as a small thing - such as the right to take a photograph (by the way, I had a camera taken off me in Derry in the 70's because I photographed a scene that includede a British Army post) and suddenly, basic right are gone...
Gerry
Edited by Gerry Kerr on Oct 04, 2004 at 11:38 PM GMT
p.3 #8 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Still too much over-reacting. We are not losing our rights. Terrorism has changed the world, the entire world. Might as well face reality and get out of your Utopian mindset. Since 9/11, we have joined most of the rest of the world. By that I mean, gun-toting guards at airports, ID checks, etc. It's too bad that it has happened, but put your anger where it belongs - at the terrorists, not the authorities doing their job.
p.3 #9 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
The weird thing is: will a terrorist wanting to take a picture of any place be lugging a tripod around just to take that picture? I'm sure the terrorists are much smarter that that... On the other hand, if you don't check or stop people with tripods, the potential terrorist will then start using tripods to take pictures too.... terrorism is not one problem that can be solved overnight by just the passing or abolishing of some laws and regulations..
Meanwhile all these safety procedures and regulatory bodies, while temporarily creating many jobs, drains America's economic resources and psychologically frightens its people. If anything, terrorism has had its intended effect...
Oct 04, 2004 at 06:53 PM
Guest Offline Guest
p.3 #10 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
However, remember the law is the law.
Being civil to one another is being civil to one another, the law also.
The interruption of law and civil is the question
Back to the movie 1Ds MK2
p.3 #12 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Seems like a lot of over-reacting here. We are at war. Show your ID and move on!
Would you still be saying that if it happened to you?. I think not. it happened not once but twice a couple days apart.If he was taking photo's of high profile government buildings or such like then yes they may have good reason but little boats on a loch, give me a break or is it a case of I'm alright Jack...
p.3 #13 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
A similar circumstance happened to me last year on a military base during an event that was open to the general public. I was questioned by the military police as to why I was photographing an aircraft that was on display. After explaining what I was doing and showing my Retired Military ID, I was left alone.
Unfortunately, since 9/11 and the enactment of the "Patriot Act" ( what a mis-named piece of work that is) George Bush and John Ashcroft feel the government has the right to harass ordinary citizens. Time for a change. I suggest we all go out and join the ACLU and show that card when we get asked for ID.
Seriously, whet the gentleman in Seattle should do is file a complaint with the police department, contact the ACLU and the local news media.
Edited by John Wright on Oct 04, 2004 at 08:29 PM GMT
p.3 #14 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Well I think one thing that's important for everyone photographing in public is to research and print out any laws relevant to photographer's rights, what's legal and what's not. If anything, when another fellow citizen or an overzealous security official approaches you demanding you stop or pretending they're saving the world from your terrorist CMOS sensor, you can present them with cold, hard laws regarding your activities and the limits of their power after explaining that you're a humble photographer with no ill intent. It could simply be that they are unaware of the fact that they're stepping over the line.
p.3 #15 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
wcbert wrote:
Can I ask a question.
Just because someone posts something on the web, does this make the "story" true? I have read it and sound possible that it did happen. But like any story it is written by someone's own opinion of the world there is some bias. Were is the objectivity? Is the author 100% right? 50% right?
Bill
I've read this entire thread and I am absolutely amazed that no one has addressed the question Bill raises here. Like Bill, I can easily visualize how this could happen; however, in the spirit of fair play it would seem only right to see the story cohoberated (sp?) before joining this feeding frenzy on how terrible our "government" has become.
For goodness sake folks, we've just witnessed how a national television news organization was duped by fake documents because they didn't do their due diligence fact checking well enough. How difficult can it be to throw up words on a web site and produce a something that looks like a police report?
Folks are lamenting the loss of certain ideals upon which this nation was founded...what about the one that deals with fairness? Where is our objectivity in this? Just because it pulls at our emotions and supports a subjective feeling we have, shouldn't we at least address the question of accuracy? And even if somehow, someway, someone was able to check to see if these events actually did happen...isn't it the right thing to do to hear BOTH sides of the story before pronouncing judgement?
Please don't misunderstand, I find the events as told very plausible and it stirs my own emotions as well. However, as free-thinking men and women I do believe we owe it to ourselves to at least keep an open and fair mind.
p.3 #16 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
Taz wrote:
........Folks are lamenting the loss of certain ideals upon which this nation was founded...what about the one that deals with fairness?.........
p.3 #20 · Please read this photographer's horrible story:
This has happened to me twice this year... once in downtown los angeles, and again just last weekend in pasadena...
I am white (whatever that means), but I am big, with long hair, and beard... considered threatening looking by many. The first time I was told I could not photograph a building I relented, the second time I was told, this last weekend in Pasadena, I told the security guard to buzz off.
Needless to say, I wholeheartedly agree with those who fear for restriction of rights... security concerns or not. If security was really a big concern for this nation - the photographers whom are out in the open practicing their craft certainly should not be the ones scrutinized...
