p.27 #1 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
The FE 35/1.4 is a superb lens. As I have mentioned before the weight and diameter of the lens is fine, but it could be about 20mm shorter to be ideal IMO. That said the FE 35/1.4 sits on my A7II as to go lens without the lens hood, even though I am a 50mm shooter. For portraits/street scenes this lens is ideal, but then for landscape photographers will have a different perspective.
Of course we have differing perspectives, and the Leica lenses I have left are the, WATE, 28 Elmarit IV, 50 Cron DR, 50 Nocti f/1.0, 50 Cron IV and 75 Lux which I keep for the Mandler look for the most part. There are plentiful tack sharp lenses but to have a unique rendering wide open for fast lenses is wonderful to have for portraits and stopping down slightly can give a totally different look.
The Batis 25 and 85 will be a great addition to the lineup
p.27 #2 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
edwardkaraa wrote:
this buttery smooth bokeh that is not at all Zeissy. Compare the rendering to the ZM 35/1.4 and the difference in design philosophy would be clear.
This isn't completely true. Zeiss also has some lenses with very smooth bokeh. For example: in general the 35/1.4 ZE/ZF is even smoother than the Sony FE 35/1.4.
edwardkaraa wrote:
I was going to say the bokeh is very much sigma style Not criticizing the lens, it is by all means excellent. Just saying it is not Zeissy in rendering, even though it carries the Zeiss badge.
The FE doesn't remind me of the Sigma at all. The bokeh of that lens is quite a lot harsher.
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I already have the 25/2 and 85/1.4 ZF.2, but the Batis lenses might replace them. So far they seem to be just great.
p.27 #3 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
I would be surprised (and delighted) if they do indeed outperform the ZE 25 and 85. IMHO the Batis are Touit under another name, and my Touit 12, excellent though it is, is not in the same league when it comes to subtle detail and colours. Like luxo ready-to-wear Vs. bespoke. But I hope to be wrong, and will be getting the 25 nonetheless, because at theat FL, I won't mind too much, and I need light lenses to offset my Otus. My hopes are up since LC's early opinion, but I need to see more to start believing.
p.27 #4 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
alundeb wrote:
I count 12 elements in 7 groups in the Tamron patent. SAR has a recent track record of creating wild, unfounded speculations on their own account.
Here's how I interpret the diagram, numbering elements and groups starting from the left:
Steve Spencer wrote:
That depends on how you interpret the diagram. I thought what was labelled CG was the mount and not an element, but it is ambiguous
"CG" is the sensor cover glass. I think alundeb is interpreting an area between the 2nd and 3rd groups that I've marked as air as being an element, thus increasing the element count by one and decreasing the group count by one, and arriving at 12/7. It's impossible to say with certainty but I'm pretty sure that is an air gap and not an element.
Given that it wouldn't be the first 11/8 design in history, nor the first 85mm f/1.8* I think it's far to early to say whether this is anything other than a coincidence. But it does generate a lot of extra clicks for SAR...
* It would be the first 85mm IS to my knowledge, but that's something that's been talked about a lot and I think stabilised 85s will become common soon)
p.27 #5 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Perhaps optimistic but 135 is CZ's format and I feel their heart was not in the Touits, where they patching up a format Sony was learning with, and were already preparing to de-emphasise. All the Zeiss spokesmen are really enthused about Batis, so I expect them to pull out all stops.
The 25 can do double duty as a wide open street/cafe lens, not too wide so less optical distortion and easier to use, also landscapes, the 85 is squarely a portrait companion to the 55.
The 85 Sonnar's MTF is really something, it should see off most at that FL, certainly the warmed over CY, 85/1.4 ZEF. I'm too respectful to ask what LC says re its LoCA (the bane of even good Planars), that is important in my high contrast environments. The 25 is really light at 335g and puts the ZE 25, a fine lens, in the heavyweight category. Batis ergo plays to the system really well too.
p.27 #6 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
CG is indeed "coverglass". That's part of the camera, but is included as part of the optical system since it affects quite a few parameters on the lens. You always include CG when specifying a lens for a digital system, it's part of the system definition. For the E system optical thickness to be included is somewhere around 2mm, for µFT it's close to 4mm, for Nikon and Canon it's also close to 2mm.
A lens patent can be either a recipe patent or a specific patent.
A recipe patent is much harder to specify and get acknowledged, it basically needs something very special in setup to be considered "unique" enough to justify a patent.
A pattern patent is much more specific, since it includes exact measurements, radi, asph. specs and glass types.
The only thing that surprises me is the strong positive element just after the aperture, that's something you often see in fast longer sonnars. I guess that's to minimize the impact on optical performance due to the stabilization element. Otherwise it's a fairly standard sonnar with a field flattener rear end and a zoom-type internal focus.
p.27 #9 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Matt Grum wrote:
I think alundeb is interpreting an area between the 2nd and 3rd groups that I've marked as air as being an element, thus increasing the element count by one and decreasing the group count by one, and arriving at 12/7. It's impossible to say with certainty but I'm pretty sure that is an air gap and not an element.
Yes that's what I "saw". I was propably wrong, It makes more sense as an air gap. Still I have zero faith in any speculation originated from SAR
These days, I think lenses differ due to production materials/methods, size constraints, economic constraints and quality control much more that due to what house they were designed in. Any of the large companies designing lenses could design an Otus or a "clinical" lens or a "character" lens if they want to.
p.27 #12 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Ed, my reading is different. At f2, the aperture at which you really want all spatial frequencies very high in a portrait lens, the averages over the middle 10mm of the frame are ZM 85: 90-80-62 as compared with Batis 85: 95-85-62 approx for 10-20-40 lpmm. Using Zeiss and LC charts (supplied by Zeiss). It's degrees of excellence for sure, but the Batis will give noticeably greater apparent clarity and macro contrast at f2. Kind of Leica like.
At f4, it's very close with each showing different outer frame residual aberration patterns, a slight edge to the ZM perhaps. We don't have smaller than f4 for the ZM, but the B85 does better at f5.6, cleans up what looks like mild curvature here.
The good news is the Batis turns into a very strong landscape lens at f8-f11, very clean microcontrast. For those wanting a multi-purpose 85 for reasons of carry weight and cost, it is good indeed. And $1100, OIS and AF. None of which the expensive discontinued ZM has, and the last two will really deliver in fast real world shooting, where all manual focus lenses at this FL are painful due to thin DoF, subject movement, slow refocusing. Think higher hit rates.
p.27 #13 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
philip_pj wrote:
Ed, my reading is different. At f2, the aperture at which you really want all spatial frequencies very high in a portrait lens, the averages over the middle 10mm of the frame are ZM 85: 90-80-62 as compared with Batis 85: 95-85-62 approx for 10-20-40 lpmm. Using Zeiss and LC charts (supplied by Zeiss). It's degrees of excellence for sure, but the Batis will give noticeably greater apparent clarity and macro contrast at f2. Kind of Leica like.
At f4, it's very close with each showing different outer frame residual aberration patterns, a slight edge to the ZM perhaps. We don't have smaller than f4 for the ZM, but the B85 does better at f5.6, cleans up what looks like mild curvature here.
The good news is the Batis turns into a very strong landscape lens at f8-f11, very clean microcontrast. For those wanting a multi-purpose 85 for reasons of carry weight and cost, it is good indeed. And $1100, OIS and AF. None of which the expensive discontinued ZM has, and the last two will really deliver in fast real world shooting, where all manual focus lenses at this FL are painful due to thin DoF, subject movement, slow refocusing. Think higher hit rates....Show more →
Fully agreed Philip. The zm has a very slight veil wide open which is very nice for portraits while retaining a high resolution. At f/4, the 40 lpmm graph is almost straight above 80%, which makes it probably the world champion of 85s at this aperture It also has a typical sonnar rendering, high resolution but with mild contrast. In fact I always find myself boosting contrast with the zm, more than what I normally do with other zm lenses. The batis seems to be excellent but with probably different character. Maybe more clarity wide open than the zm as you mentioned.
p.27 #14 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
edwardkaraa wrote:
Fully agreed Philip. The zm has a very slight veil wide open which is very nice for portraits while retaining a high resolution. At f/4, the 40 lpmm graph is almost straight above 80%, which makes it probably the world champion of 85s at this aperture It also has a typical sonnar rendering, high resolution but with mild contrast. In fact I always find myself boosting contrast with the zm, more than what I normally do with other zm lenses. The batis seems to be excellent but with probably different character. Maybe more clarity wide open than the zm as you mentioned....Show more →
I also have to boost contrast with the 75APO. I find it has a veiling flare problem in 90% of the shooting conditions. I've sent it to Leica several times, and even bought a brand new copy to see if my copy was cursed. Now a days, I just shoot and add in 25-50 points contrast for a normal looking image without thinking about it.
Still REALLY damn sharp though when you nail focus.
p.27 #15 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
adamdewilde wrote:
I also have to boost contrast with the 75APO. I find it has a veiling flare problem in 90% of the shooting conditions. I've sent it to Leica several times, and even bought a brand new copy to see if my copy was cursed. Now a days, I just shoot and add in 25-50 points contrast for a normal looking image without thinking about it.
Still REALLY damn sharp though when you nail focus.
Indeed Adam, the 75 apo seems to have some shared Characteristics with the sonnar, which also flares easily as well.
p.27 #16 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Any thoughts on whether or not the 25mm could replace a 28mm focal length for street? I know the 28mm is popular on the Leica but should that be attributed to the focal length itself or the convenience of the frame lines which support the 28mm FOV.
p.27 #17 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
davewolfs wrote:
Any thoughts on whether or not the 25mm could replace a 28mm focal length for street? I know the 28mm is popular on the Leica but should that be attributed to the focal length itself or the convenience of the frame lines which support the 28mm FOV.
Maybe a bit of both, and some other factors.. The 28 Summicron is a great lens. So is the 28 Elmarit-ASPH. So I suppose it's partly due to the lenses themselves, also accessibility of the FL and partly due to frame lines. 25 is only found in ZM, and 24 is either slow (Elmar) or fast (Summilux) but large and expensive.
I suppose if the 25 Batis is seen as a better lens then Sony's 28, a lot of people will go for it. But at Sony's price point, the 28 is tempting. Honestly I'm more of a 50 guy, so 35 is already WIDE for me. 28/25 is almost to wide, and 21 is what I consider wide enough to be my widest useable lens (and even then, I feel it's almost a trick lens at that FL).
p.27 #18 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Anything getting a more narrow focal length from 24 is going to be better for street photography since distortion with wide angles gets pretty pronounced. I would think the 28 would be more appropriate than the 25.
p.27 #19 · Zeiss "Batis" AF lens line to be released for FF E-mount
Zeiss just uploaded a new photo taken with the Batis 2/25 here. I really like the colors - the green tint in the water is beautiful, the same goes for the yellow sand. However, what puzzles me is that Zeiss publish a photo with that much dust spots in it? Look at the clouds - there must be at least 20 of them.
