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Archive 2015 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts

  
 
millsart
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p.3 #1 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


I've like to see a consensus on the best "expert" polled from various camera forum members


Mar 21, 2015 at 04:42 PM
p242
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p.3 #2 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


dalegaspi wrote:
..looks like the term "expert" is loosely defined here.


keep in mind title says 30 expert bloggers, not 30 expert photographers

I'm not saying they are not great photographers as well, don't get me wrong - they very well might be, I just don't really know any of them or their work.



Mar 21, 2015 at 06:55 PM
millsart
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p.3 #3 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


Kind of a sad state of affairs when there are things like "expert bloggers", "executive director of social media", and companies that don't make an actual product are valued at 4 billion dollars etc.




Mar 21, 2015 at 09:19 PM
philip_pj
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p.3 #4 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


It's understandable that these guys hone in on rather insignificant issues - after all, what they do can best be called 'camera handing', so when each camera means nothing much in its own right, that you just obtain, and each one gets maybe a few days to 'impress you', this is the result you get.

They are for the most part dilettantes rather than photographers who are far more likely to choose a tool that gives them what they want and can work around the small imperfections they all have. Some in this list are best described as professional fault finders, searchers for the chimera of perfection, critics not practitioners who simply want to make solid images year in year out, and look for equipment that suits their particular preferences.

These guys just want to rate stuff against other stuff, using a set of their own predilections and pushing the findings out there from a self-appointed position of authority. Their views are never value free and should be heavily discounted.



Mar 21, 2015 at 09:46 PM
millsart
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p.3 #5 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


philip_pj wrote:
It's understandable that these guys hone in on rather insignificant issues - after all, what they do can best be called 'camera handing', so when each camera means nothing much in its own right, that you just obtain, and each one gets maybe a few days to 'impress you', this is the result you get.

They are for the most part dilettantes rather than photographers who are far more likely to choose a tool that gives them what they want and can work around the small imperfections they all have. Some in this list are best described as professional fault
...Show more


True, however, they are also fulfilling an apparent need in the psychology of the typical camera buyer. Much as some people in society feel a need for celebratory gossip, which fuels lots of dreadful tv programs and websites, the typical electronics buyer seeming can't get enough comparisons and "reviews", either to seemingly help purchase indecision, or more often than not, to try to justify already made purchases.

What seems to play out endlessly is that an individual goes out and buys a fairly expensive electronics item, and then instead of using said item, they instead try to find validation on the internet that they made the "right" choice.

This strange mix of insecurity, buyers remorse, and brand loyalty aka "fan boi-ism", has given the rise of no shortage of "experts" to give people their review "fix".

When it comes down to it, I don't think guys like Huff et al., really care that much to compare one camera against another. I mean really when you think about it it is kind of odd behavior. Does anyone go to the grocery store and buy 3 different brands of a product and compare them endlessly ?

Thing is though, these guys have learned the X vs Y equates into clicks, which equates into revenue.

Fuji vs Sony vs Leica comparison photo equals internet gold.

Pan the Fuji and a Fuji fan will post outrage on a forum and the faithful will all have to go read the illicit review. Praise the Sony and the Sony fans will all rush to the site in order to validate their choice. Praise the Leica and the Sony and Fuji fans will all rush to point out how close they are and how much better "Value" their choices are.

Photographers, or should I say camera enthusiast who frequent forums, are so predictable its silly. Guys have it down to a science how to exploit our need for reviews, validation, and an outlet for mock outrage, to the tune of pretty good livings.

More power to these guys, but its a bit crazy to think that people actually make a living simply posting thoughts about cameras on the internet. Yes, that actually is a real job in the year 2015..... "expert blogger".

Now if you'll all excuse me, I feel the need to go actually make something out of wood or metal in my basement. To get away from this online reality in exchange for one where "work" involves sweat and getting your hands dirty. Where a successful project is building something such as a chair I can actually sit on, instead of the number of "likes" or "followers" I got after a given post on social media.



Mar 21, 2015 at 10:18 PM
freaklikeme
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p.3 #6 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


philip_pj wrote:
It's understandable that these guys hone in on rather insignificant issues - after all, what they do can best be called 'camera handing', so when each camera means nothing much in its own right, that you just obtain, and each one gets maybe a few days to 'impress you', this is the result you get.

They are for the most part dilettantes rather than photographers who are far more likely to choose a tool that gives them what they want and can work around the small imperfections they all have. Some in this list are best described as professional fault
...Show more

I know I always take pretentious, self-aggrandizing criticism with a grain of salt.



Mar 21, 2015 at 10:19 PM
Jman13
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p.3 #7 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


Geez, guys, a bit cynical, are we?


Mar 21, 2015 at 10:29 PM
cputeq
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p.3 #8 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


philip_pj wrote:
It's understandable that these guys hone in on rather insignificant issues - after all, what they do can best be called 'camera handing', so when each camera means nothing much in its own right, that you just obtain, and each one gets maybe a few days to 'impress you', this is the result you get.

They are for the most part dilettantes rather than photographers who are far more likely to choose a tool that gives them what they want and can work around the small imperfections they all have. Some in this list are best described as professional fault
...Show more

Or, maybe they're people that have a preference for one type of camera or another, but can also objectively take a look at another camera and decide why they do/don't like it and then tell interested readers why. Who ever said being a photographer excludes one from also being a critic/writer?

It's then up to the reader to decide just how much weight, if any, is applied to the reviewer's comments on these "rather insignificant issues". One photographer's insignificant issue can be another's deal-breaker -- who are we to decide what's important to other people? Instead, a good reviewer will mention everything, both good and bad, and leave it up to the reader to take it or leave it.

Or, should we just discount all comparisons, from everyone? I mean, why stop at cameras? We should all write American Woodworker/Consumer Reports/Maximum PC/Car and Driver/Electronic Gaming Monthly/(insert comparative media here) and tell them their exploits are pointless!


I realize there are some photographers that are only about the image and don't really care about using the gear...good for them.

There are others, though, that like to tinker with shiny things, in addition to taking photos, and don't mind reading up on the hardware (or if you're like me, you've owned a heck of a lot of the hardware!)

I don't pretend to be some Pulitzer-prize winning image-maker -- frankly most 'critical' photography to me is just a bunch of pretentious horse manure, but I do like reading about all the different facets of the gear used in the image And judging by the existence of so many gear comparisons, so do many others.





Mar 21, 2015 at 11:06 PM
freaklikeme
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p.3 #9 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


Jman13 wrote:
Geez, guys, a bit cynical, are we?


I wasn't talking about you, Jordan, or anyone on that list bloggers (most of whom I hadn't heard of before the list).



Mar 21, 2015 at 11:49 PM
rattymouse
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p.3 #10 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


millsart wrote:
True, however, they are also fulfilling an apparent need in the psychology of the typical camera buyer. Much as some people in society feel a need for celebratory gossip, which fuels lots of dreadful tv programs and websites, the typical electronics buyer seeming can't get enough comparisons and "reviews", either to seemingly help purchase indecision, or more often than not, to try to justify already made purchases.

What seems to play out endlessly is that an individual goes out and buys a fairly expensive electronics item, and then instead of using said item, they instead try to find validation on
...Show more

100% spot on Millsart. Fan boys are incessantly insecure and will cling to their loyal blogs as well as pounce on *anyone* who dare say anything less than glowingly about their chosen brand. This is the #1 reason why i'm constantly labeled by drooling fan boys that I'm some sort of Fujifilm hater. I have 12 or more Fujifilm cameras, but because I dare not praise Fujifilm at every last turn, the rabid fan boys have to pounce with relentless personal attacks against me. Anyone with a critical mind can see the emptiness of their position.

millsart wrote:
When it comes down to it, I don't think guys like Huff et al., really care that much to compare one camera against another. I mean really when you think about it it is kind of odd behavior. Does anyone go to the grocery store and buy 3 different brands of a product and compare them endlessly ?

Thing is though, these guys have learned the X vs Y equates into clicks, which equates into revenue.

Fuji vs Sony vs Leica comparison photo equals internet gold.

Pan the Fuji and a Fuji fan will post outrage on a forum and
...Show more

Yep. Not only that be we have paid shills for cameras from brands that are trying like hell to gain market share against Canon, Nikon, Sony. Pay off a few photographers and let them spread the word.

millsart wrote:
Now if you'll all excuse me, I feel the need to go actually make something out of wood or metal in my basement. To get away from this online reality in exchange for one where "work" involves sweat and getting your hands dirty. Where a successful project is building something such as a chair I can actually sit on, instead of the number of "likes" or "followers" I got after a given post on social media.




Mar 21, 2015 at 11:49 PM
millsart
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p.3 #11 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


Well....given that every automotive magazine's principle ad revenue comes from auto manufacturers, and your simply not going to pan a Chevy when Chevrolet is buying several full page ads in every issue, the resulting conclusions could be said to be a bit worthless.

Same goes for camera magazines et al., your simply not going to see too much criticism for lets say a Sigma lens when on the adjoining page there is a full page Sigma ad.

Heck, even when it comes to web reviews of camera gear, which likely don't have the likes of Canikon advertising, you still have the issue of reviewers getting flown to destinations to try out new gear, and certainly being the first to handle products helps web traffic.

Is it a conidence that guys like Steve Huff who simply rave about Sony and Olympus offerings get invited to Ireland, having Sony hand deliver stuff to his house etc, but then Fuji, who he doesn't seem to like (not saying his opinion is wrong on the matter mind you) doesn't seem to give him anything ?

Whats a reviewer to do ? Pay for every item out of pocket via Lens Rentals etc and be 100% honest, but also not get to review something until well after its been shipping, OR, play the game and get to go to California on Sony's dime and be the first person on the net to post a review ?



Mar 21, 2015 at 11:54 PM
cputeq
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p.3 #12 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


millsart wrote:
Well....given that every automotive magazine's principle ad revenue comes from auto manufacturers, and your simply not going to pan a Chevy when Chevrolet is buying several full page ads in every issue, the resulting conclusions could be said to be a bit worthless.

Same goes for camera magazines et al., your simply not going to see too much criticism for lets say a Sigma lens when on the adjoining page there is a full page Sigma ad.

Heck, even when it comes to web reviews of camera gear, which likely don't have the likes of Canikon advertising, you still have the
...Show more


That's one way to look at it, and sure, some people are paid shills, we all know that.

However, not everyone is like that. I think it was MaximumPC magazine (but maybe not, I can't remember) that once actually addressed these same accusations -- they couldn't vouch for other publications, but this magazine said they avoid this by completely separate departments. The advertising department was totally separate from the editorial department, and so the editorial department wrote what it wanted to write.

Now, does this mean the editorial department has NO interaction with the vendors? No, and it would be foolish to write about products in that sort of vacuum. Often times, a writer will give the vendor the courtesy of calling them if a product just isn't performing up to par (aka, it's going to get slammed in the review) and the vendor might even ask them to delay the review while they investigate -- this doesn't make the writer "bought" by any company.


And what of these crazy trips these photographers get to go on, to test out new gear? One can look at it from the point of the vendor "buying" opinions, and perhaps with some writers, this is the case.

But I think many people realize the vendor wants to show off a nice camera (or camera/lens) in a nice, picturesque setting -- what better way to get the hype machine rolling (and sales flowing) than inviting some talent to a pretty location for shots from everyone?


As for Steve Huff - Yes, he's a hype machine, but that doesn't mean everything he says has no value -- that's the point I was trying to make in my response above. It's up to the reader to decide what they value, and from whom.

As far as Huff specifically, he's written on numerous occasions that he only reviews the stuff he likes. He's openly panned Fuji multiple times, but gave the XT1 pretty high marks. If he WAS a shill, you'd imagine he'd sing the praises of all the big manufacturers, no?






Mar 22, 2015 at 12:11 AM
rattymouse
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p.3 #13 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


cputeq wrote:
That's one way to look at it, and sure, some people are paid shills, we all know that.

However, not everyone is like that. I think it was MaximumPC magazine (but maybe not, I can't remember) that once actually addressed these same accusations -- they couldn't vouch for other publications, but this magazine said they avoid this by completely separate departments. The advertising department was totally separate from the editorial department, and so the editorial department wrote what it wanted to write.

Now, does this mean the editorial department has NO interaction with the vendors? No, and it would be foolish to
...Show more

Ever see examples where a blogger is flown to a location and then writes up a less than stellar review? Link?

cputeq wrote:
But I think many people realize the vendor wants to show off a nice camera (or camera/lens) in a nice, picturesque setting -- what better way to get the hype machine rolling (and sales flowing) than inviting some talent to a pretty location for shots from everyone?


Totally risk free since the "reviewer" is bought and paid for.

cputeq wrote:
As for Steve Huff - Yes, he's a hype machine, but that doesn't mean everything he says has no value -- that's the point I was trying to make in my response above. It's up to the reader to decide what they value, and from whom.

As far as Huff specifically, he's written on numerous occasions that he only reviews the stuff he likes. He's openly panned Fuji multiple times, but gave the XT1 pretty high marks.


cputeq wrote:
If he WAS a shill, you'd imagine he'd sing the praises of all the big manufacturers, no?



The praise comes after the check clears.



Mar 22, 2015 at 12:17 AM
Jman13
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p.3 #14 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


millsart wrote:
Whats a reviewer to do ? Pay for every item out of pocket via Lens Rentals etc and be 100% honest, but also not get to review something until well after its been shipping


That s essentially what I do for about 85% of my reviews. The others, which I note when the do, Lensrentals is kind enough to comp me in exchange for their link. About 60%-70% of the revenue from my site goes directly back into the site, either to pay for review gear or the servers (which start getting expensive as traffic increases...the $8 starter plans with 'unlimited' bandwidth aren't unlimited....as soon as you stress the shared server too much, your site gets suspended....I have to pay for a dedicated server box for my site and I don't get but about 1/15 the traffic some of the bigger names get.). I'm lucky to pay for a lens or two a year for myself off what I make on my site.

Of course I'd get more traffic if I get a chance to do early reviews, but I (and I think you'll find most of the people who do this are the same), but I won't sell my opinion for access. Defeats the whole point. I've been fortunate enough to have some personal one on one interaction with a few of the big names in camera reviews, and they are the same....simply a passion for the craft and the industry.

It's disheartening to see how much disdain many of you have. I agree some of the people interviewed for this article are hacks, but most of them produce quality reviews and quite a few are very good photographers. The wide brush painted here by many is frustrating. The insinuation that there's not real work going on is the most grating. It takes a lot of work to review equipment well. A typical review for me involves usually about 20 hours of shooting, 10 hours of processing, and usually at least 4-8 hours of writing (depending on whether its a lens or camera), and this is generally the minimum amount of work that goes into it. I wish I had double the shooting time, but since I rent most of my review units I simply can't afford to do more than 7-10 days of rental for most gear. All in my spare time while doing a regular full time job and raising a family. It's a LOT of work, and I do it because I enjoy photography and enjoy using the new gear, and I think I put out fairly good work on this front.

To be fair, the shooting time, which is the largest bulk of work, is often the same personal shooting time that I'd do anyway, but there's extra pressure to get out and make some good images when you only have 7 days with a product. I'm often out very early before I have to go to work, then in the evenings as well.

Most of the others interviewed for this also do pretty good work. (Some stink, in my opinion, and that includes a few of the bigger sites that simply phone it in, but most are good). But regardless, so many are attaching stigma over a simple article that attempts to get quick thoughts on what is, by far, the most asked question we get on a daily basis. Note that Mirrorlessons didn't ask 'experts' to contact them....they simply sent out emails to everyone and asked if we'd be willing to contribute. That's it. We weren't all going around saying "Look here...I'm an expert blogger!" The motivations that have been have been attached to what was pretty innocuous is honestly somewhat disgusting, and I expected better from FM to be honest. It's really disappointing.



Mar 22, 2015 at 06:55 AM
Steve Spencer
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p.3 #15 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


Jman13 wrote:
That s essentially what I do for about 85% of my reviews. The others, which I note when the do, Lensrentals is kind enough to comp me in exchange for their link. About 60%-70% of the revenue from my site goes directly back into the site, either to pay for review gear or the servers (which start getting expensive as traffic increases...the $8 starter plans with 'unlimited' bandwidth aren't unlimited....as soon as you stress the shared server too much, your site gets suspended....I have to pay for a dedicated server box for my site and I don't get but about
...Show more

Jordan, I think any of us who have been on FM for awhile know that you are completely honest in your reviews and you put a ton of work into them. We know you did this before you started blogging with just comments here on the forum and your blog has evolved into a more organized and better presented version of very valuable posts (which themselves were always organized and well presented) you have made for a very long time. Rest assured most of us feel that way even if we haven't commented on this thread. It is good to know that the other bloggers are much the same. That is what I would have expected. There are no doubt a couple that either sell out for access or try to be sensational rather than balanced to gain traffic, but those must be the exception rather than the rule. In your case, I think there is zero reason to doubt that you are just being yourself (honest and passionate) even if we don't always agree. Let me say thanks for all the work.



Mar 22, 2015 at 07:07 AM
J.D.
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p.3 #16 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


Jman13 wrote:
It's disheartening to see how much disdain many of you have. I agree some of the people interviewed for this article are hacks, but most of them produce quality reviews and quite a few are very good photographers. The wide brush painted here by many is frustrating. The insinuation that there's not real work going on is the most grating. It takes a lot of work to review equipment well. A typical review for me involves usually about 20 hours of shooting, 10 hours of processing, and usually at least 4-8 hours of writing (depending on whether its a lens
...Show more

My comments were not aimed at you Jman. I actually share some of your frustrations because I used to do movie reviews. For that you get called "pseudo-intellectual" or "pretentious" on a pretty regular basis, especially if you are calling out some sacred cow or other. After a while you develop a pretty thick hide or you give up. It's particularly disheartening when you put so much time and effort into it.

I actually do read stuff. I just don't read much of the highly detail techy stuff which doesn't directly affect what I do. But in truth, I will listen to just about anyone until they get up my nose. The reviews I don't like are those which either ignore practicalities or make some silly and unsupportable comment which basically deep-sixes the rest of the review. People who don't provide real-world examples don't cut much ice with me.

There is at least one guy in there whose reviews are less about the gear and more about the reviewer (and it probably isn't who you think it is) and that is the sort of thing which drives me nuts. But in fairness to him, it's my personal opinion and I'm not going to say who it is. I'll let others be the judge.



Mar 22, 2015 at 07:18 AM
Jman13
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p.3 #17 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


I'm not looking for personal accolades, but I just wanted to point out that most of these people are stand up reviewers who share the passion most people here do. Opinions are fine on a per-person basis, but the wide swath that was being painted was bothersome to me, since I know the amount of work required to do review gear, and I know a few of these people personally and know their passion as well. I know not everyone will like my work, and that's fine...I'm not going to please everyone, but the generalizations on 30 people who simply answered a question via email, because of the title of the compilation article were driving me nuts.


Mar 22, 2015 at 07:30 AM
Sean Carpenter
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p.3 #18 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


millsart wrote:
Does anyone go to the grocery store and buy 3 different brands of a product and compare them endlessly ?


Yes. How on Earth would you possibly know if you like Light, Medium, or Dark maple syrup? Coke or Pepsi? Icelandic or Australian yogurt? Piave or Manchego cheese? Bordeaux or Burgundy?

I'll tell you what I like from all of the above, and it is only because I taste tested them. It is not strange behavior, in fact I find it strange that people *don't* do it.

Your taste buds might not be the same as mine, and unlike me you might (for example) prefer Medium amber maple syrup. I'd rather have more opinions than less, and determine whose tastes align with mine.

So I think Jordan and some of the reviewers like Klaus from Photozone provide me very valuable information in their reviews since our tastes align. There is nothing strange about that at all.



Mar 22, 2015 at 11:32 AM
cputeq
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p.3 #19 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


It takes a lot of work to review equipment well.

Understatement of the year

Jordan hit the nail on the head when he talks about reviewing gear well -- I know that first-hand, at least with a few reviews I've done on my *now* defunct site.

My E-M1 review was a good 10 pages long, and it took for-freaking-ever to do, because I try to cover the gamut from technical aspects (a little) to handling and likes/dislikes (a lot), and it takes a crap-load of time to not only accumulate interesting shots, but also write the review in a fair and readable, objective manner.

I got a good reception to that E-M1 review I did (and it totally swamped the crappy $10/month host I was using), and I was able to write the review over the course of a month because I owned the camera. I can't imagine doing it under the timelines of a personal rental!

A lot of work, indeed.




Mar 22, 2015 at 12:43 PM
najibs
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p.3 #20 · The Best Mirrorless Cameras According to 30 Experts


I like how "expert" Ken Rockwell rated the iPhone 6 the 3d best mirrorless camera *shakes head*


Mar 22, 2015 at 01:01 PM
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