This topic is in the 2014 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2014Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlande...
p.1 #1Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Hi everyone,
As a follow-up to my original test on the a7 days after it was announced, as well as my later a7R test, I finally was able to do an infinity focus test with the a7S and 21 rangefinder lenses. I was looking forward to this test because there were quite a number of positive early reports about how well the a7S worked with lenses that were otherwise problematic on the a7/a7R. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a loaner camera as quickly as I had hoped, therefore this test comes a bit late.
As a bonus comparison, I shot the same scene with the same lenses on the Leica M240 immediately after testing the a7S. The M240 images, downsized to match the a7S, are included in the high-rez download links in the article, which can be found here: http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?page_id=310
Lenses tested:
Voigtlander (CV) 12/5.6 LTM
CV 15/4.5 M-mount (optically the same as the LTM version, but different from the one announced this year at Photokina)
Zeiss (ZM) 18/4
Leica 21/1.4 ASPH
ZM 21/2.8
Leica 21/3.4 ASPH
ZM 25/2.8
Leica 28/2 ASPH
CV 35/1.2 II
Canon 35/2 LTM
ZM 35/2
ZM 35/2.8
CV 40/1.4
Leica 50/1.4 ASPH
Canon 50/1.4 LTM
CV 50/1.5 LTM
ZM 50/1.5
ZM 50/2
CV 75/1.8
Leica 90/2 APO ASPH
Leica 90/2.5
Note that the high-rez files are in zipped folders hosted on Google Drive. From past experience, if there is significant traffic, Google will block access for ~24 hours. Let me know if this happens and I'll consider other hosting options.
My basic conclusion is that in respect to edge smearing, these lenses perform very similarly on the a7S compared to the a7R. Most 50mm and wider lenses look better across the frame on the Leica than the Sony, if you're picky about edge sharpness in distant landscape-type images. Most, if not all, of these lenses likely will perform much better on the a7S at nearer focusing distances and with subjects where critical details are not near the edges. This seems to be the case based on what I've read from other members here who make extensive use of rangefinder lenses on this camera. For example, while the 28 Cron looks pretty bad at infinity, I used it a lot on the a7S at nearer distances for people/events photos, and was happy with the results. Same with the 50 Lux ASPH. That said, if I invested ~$8K in two lenses, I'd want them to perform to their full potential in as many situations as possible. And for that, the current best camera solution for most rangefinder lenses remains an expensive Leica digital M.
Where the a7S seems to be better than the a7R and a7 is in regards to edge color shift. While I didn't specifically test for this with a neutral test scene, the scene I photographed didn't show any obvious signs of color fringing. At least nothing offensively magenta/red. If there is color shift, it may be on the blue/cyan side, which tends to be easier to disguise in most images.
Let me know if you have any questions, etc. Thanks in advance!
Ron
As a follow-up to my original test on the a7 days after it was announced, as well as my later a7R test, I finally was able to do an infinity focus test with the a7S and 21 rangefinder lenses. I was looking forward to this test because there were quite a number of positive early reports about how well the a7S worked with lenses that were otherwise problematic on the a7/a7R. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get a loaner camera as quickly as I had hoped, therefore this test comes a bit late.
As a bonus comparison, I shot the same scene with the same lenses on the Leica M240 immediately after testing the a7S. The M240 images, downsized to match the a7S, are included in the high-rez download links in the article, which can be found here: http://www.ronscheffler.com/techtalk/?page_id=310
Lenses tested:
Voigtlander (CV) 12/5.6 LTM
CV 15/4.5 M-mount (optically the same as the LTM version, but different from the one announced this year at Photokina)
Zeiss (ZM) 18/4
Leica 21/1.4 ASPH
ZM 21/2.8
Leica 21/3.4 ASPH
ZM 25/2.8
Leica 28/2 ASPH
CV 35/1.2 II
Canon 35/2 LTM
ZM 35/2
ZM 35/2.8
CV 40/1.4
Leica 50/1.4 ASPH
Canon 50/1.4 LTM
CV 50/1.5 LTM
ZM 50/1.5
ZM 50/2
CV 75/1.8
Leica 90/2 APO ASPH
Leica 90/2.5
Note that the high-rez files are in zipped folders hosted on Google Drive. From past experience, if there is significant traffic, Google will block access for ~24 hours. Let me know if this happens and I'll consider other hosting options.
My basic conclusion is that in respect to edge smearing, these lenses perform very similarly on the a7S compared to the a7R. Most 50mm and wider lenses look better across the frame on the Leica than the Sony, if you're picky about edge sharpness in distant landscape-type images. Most, if not all, of these lenses likely will perform much better on the a7S at nearer focusing distances and with subjects where critical details are not near the edges. This seems to be the case based on what I've read from other members here who make extensive use of rangefinder lenses on this camera. For example, while the 28 Cron looks pretty bad at infinity, I used it a lot on the a7S at nearer distances for people/events photos, and was happy with the results. Same with the 50 Lux ASPH. That said, if I invested ~$8K in two lenses, I'd want them to perform to their full potential in as many situations as possible. And for that, the current best camera solution for most rangefinder lenses remains an expensive Leica digital M.
Where the a7S seems to be better than the a7R and a7 is in regards to edge color shift. While I didn't specifically test for this with a neutral test scene, the scene I photographed didn't show any obvious signs of color fringing. At least nothing offensively magenta/red. If there is color shift, it may be on the blue/cyan side, which tends to be easier to disguise in most images.
Let me know if you have any questions, etc. Thanks in advance!
Ron
Dec 09, 2014 at 09:49 PM
p.1 #2Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Thanks for going through the effort Ron, much appreciated.
Dec 10, 2014 at 12:04 AM
p.1 #3Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Thanks Ron!
Dec 10, 2014 at 12:26 AM
p.1 #4Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Ron, thank you for doing the test/comparison 
.
.Dec 10, 2014 at 12:44 AM
p.1 #5Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Excellent work!
Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.
Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.
Dec 10, 2014 at 01:03 AM
p.1 #6Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Yeah, he also said early on that the ZM 35 f:2.0 and 'Lux 50 were fine ont the A7R, which is patently untrue except close up. Ron OTOH not only does his homework (and ours), which is a back-breaking task in this instance, but also publishes it in organized fashion, another backbreaker. Great stuff, Ron, and thanks!
Dec 10, 2014 at 01:19 AM
p.1 #7Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Thanks much!
Dec 10, 2014 at 01:53 AM
p.1 #8Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Thank you very much Ron!
Dec 10, 2014 at 01:58 AM
p.1 #9Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Excellent work Ron!!! Thank you 
Dec 10, 2014 at 04:37 AM
p.1 #10Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Desmolicious wrote:
Excellent work!
Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.
Not really that surprising. We are fortunate to have a community here with members such as Ron who are unbiased, thorough and overall probably more experienced photographers than a number of the well known reviewers such as Huff.
Excellent work!
Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.
Not really that surprising.
We are fortunate to have a community here with members such as Ron who are unbiased, thorough and overall probably more experienced photographers than a number of the well known reviewers such as Huff.Dec 10, 2014 at 05:15 AM
p.1 #11Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Thanks Ron!
Dec 10, 2014 at 08:27 AM
p.1 #12Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Thanks very much Ron! Greatly appreciated!
Dec 10, 2014 at 09:39 AM
p.1 #13Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.Not really that surprising. We are fortunate to have a community here with members such as Ron who are unbiased, thorough and overall probably more experienced photographers than a number of the well known reviewers such as Huff.
I think it also has to do with the 'buy it here' links posted with each "test".
Desmolicious wrote
Excellent work!Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.
We are fortunate to have a community here with members such as Ron who are unbiased, thorough and overall probably more experienced photographers than a number of the well known reviewers such as Huff.I think it also has to do with the 'buy it here' links posted with each "test".
Dec 10, 2014 at 10:06 AM
p.1 #14Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
+1
Desmolicious wrote:
Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.Not really that surprising. We are fortunate to have a community here with members such as Ron who are unbiased, thorough and overall probably more experienced photographers than a number of the well known reviewers such as Huff.I think it also has to do with the 'buy it here' links posted with each "test".
Desmolicious wrote:
Tariq Gibran wrote
Desmolicious wrote
Excellent work!Interesting that Steve Huff claims the A7s is great with Leica glass, but without showing any real tests like you have done.
We are fortunate to have a community here with members such as Ron who are unbiased, thorough and overall probably more experienced photographers than a number of the well known reviewers such as Huff.Dec 10, 2014 at 10:19 AM
p.1 #15Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
>>>That said, if I invested ~$8K in two lenses, I'd want them to perform to their full potential in as many situations as possible. And for that, the current best camera solution for most rangefinder lenses remains an expensive Leica digital M.<<<
Thank you for the valuable info - one of the reasons I come here. But, it begs the question, at least for me, if it is simply do to the filters above the sensor, or is it technically more complicated. Artistically speaking, it would be great if there was a sensor/camera that you could hang interesting lenses of off, but still maintain the, umm, craft of photography. You could say Leica, but those are expensive tools for artistic experimentation. Thus the value in your effort.
Thank you for the valuable info - one of the reasons I come here. But, it begs the question, at least for me, if it is simply do to the filters above the sensor, or is it technically more complicated. Artistically speaking, it would be great if there was a sensor/camera that you could hang interesting lenses of off, but still maintain the, umm, craft of photography. You could say Leica, but those are expensive tools for artistic experimentation. Thus the value in your effort.
Dec 10, 2014 at 11:37 AM
p.1 #16Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Thanks everyone!
carlitos wrote:
>>>That said, if I invested ~$8K in two lenses, I'd want them to perform to their full potential in as many situations as possible. And for that, the current best camera solution for most rangefinder lenses remains an expensive Leica digital M.<<<
Thank you for the valuable info - one of the reasons I come here. But, it begs the question, at least for me, if it is simply do to the filters above the sensor, or is it technically more complicated. Artistically speaking, it would be great if there was a sensor/camera that you could hang interesting lenses of off,...Show more →
It has to do with the combination of the lens's exit pupil distance, which indicates how oblique the peripheral image light rays pass through the layers over the sensor, combined with how thick those layers are. The steeper or more oblique the rays and the thicker the sensor stack, the worse the image degradation becomes as you move away from the center of the image.
There is a good explanation of this by Dr. Nasse of Zeiss, as well as by Roger over at Lenrentals. I'm on my phone, so difficult to pull up the links for you.
Dec 10, 2014 at 12:29 PM
p.1 #17Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Now we just need a database for rangefinder lens performance on A7, A7II, A7R, and A7S 
. Great work! The only lens I have personally experience with of those tested ones is my CV 35/1.2 Nokton II lens. I can fully agree with your test outcome here.
I also found your link to the 21 mm rangefinder tests (didn't see it earlier) - I also agree in regard to the CV 21/1.8 lens.
. Great work! The only lens I have personally experience with of those tested ones is my CV 35/1.2 Nokton II lens. I can fully agree with your test outcome here. I also found your link to the 21 mm rangefinder tests (didn't see it earlier) - I also agree in regard to the CV 21/1.8 lens.
Dec 10, 2014 at 12:53 PM
p.1 #18Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
rscheffler wrote:
It has to do with the combination of the lens's exit pupil distance, which indicates how oblique the peripheral image light rays pass through the layers over the sensor, combined with how thick those layers are. The steeper or more oblique the rays and the thicker the sensor stack, the worse the image degradation becomes as you move away from the center of the image.
There is a good explanation of this by Dr. Nasse of Zeiss, as well as by Roger over at Lenrentals. I'm on my phone, so difficult to pull up the links for you.
This is a perfect explation of the 'smearing issue' in plain and clear words without unnecessary super technical details or nonsensical blah, blah.
Thanks a lot, Ron. You're a voice of honesty and common sense among so many self called professional photo 'gurus' who are either clueless or very biased in their reviews.
It has to do with the combination of the lens's exit pupil distance, which indicates how oblique the peripheral image light rays pass through the layers over the sensor, combined with how thick those layers are. The steeper or more oblique the rays and the thicker the sensor stack, the worse the image degradation becomes as you move away from the center of the image.
There is a good explanation of this by Dr. Nasse of Zeiss, as well as by Roger over at Lenrentals. I'm on my phone, so difficult to pull up the links for you.
This is a perfect explation of the 'smearing issue' in plain and clear words without unnecessary super technical details or nonsensical blah, blah.
Thanks a lot, Ron. You're a voice of honesty and common sense among so many self called professional photo 'gurus' who are either clueless or very biased in their reviews.
Dec 10, 2014 at 04:14 PM
p.1 #19Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
Yes thanks, your tests have made interesting reading for a while.
The only 'problem' for me is that neither of my 21s, the 2.8 Elmarit asph. and the Voigtlander 21/4 are not amongst those tested :-(
I keep looking at the A7 and hoping for miracles. If anyone has any experience of these I would be delighted to hear of it.
Gerry
The only 'problem' for me is that neither of my 21s, the 2.8 Elmarit asph. and the Voigtlander 21/4 are not amongst those tested :-(
I keep looking at the A7 and hoping for miracles. If anyone has any experience of these I would be delighted to hear of it.
Gerry
Dec 10, 2014 at 04:35 PM
p.1 #20Sony a7S infinity test w/21 rangefinder lenses (Leica, Zeiss, Voigtlander, Canon)
gyoung143 wrote:
Yes thanks, your tests have made interesting reading for a while.
The only 'problem' for me is that neither of my 21s, the 2.8 Elmarit asph. and the Voigtlander 21/4 are not amongst those tested :-(
I keep looking at the A7 and hoping for miracles. If anyone has any experience of these I would be delighted to hear of it.
Gerry
Sean Reid recently tested the Voigtlander 21/4 on the A7s. Unfortunately, it did not do well at any aperture in the corners. Typical performance of the more problematic, small and wide rangefinder lenses on the Sony's. The 21/1.8 Ultron fared much better, becoming at least decent by 5.6 and very good at F8 in the corners. Don't know about the Elmarit.
Yes thanks, your tests have made interesting reading for a while.
The only 'problem' for me is that neither of my 21s, the 2.8 Elmarit asph. and the Voigtlander 21/4 are not amongst those tested :-(
I keep looking at the A7 and hoping for miracles. If anyone has any experience of these I would be delighted to hear of it.
Gerry
Sean Reid recently tested the Voigtlander 21/4 on the A7s. Unfortunately, it did not do well at any aperture in the corners. Typical performance of the more problematic, small and wide rangefinder lenses on the Sony's. The 21/1.8 Ultron fared much better, becoming at least decent by 5.6 and very good at F8 in the corners. Don't know about the Elmarit.
Dec 10, 2014 at 04:55 PM