what you could get instead is irrelevant if you want the 50AA...
and if the lens, which is quite rare, holds value the way other Leica lenses have (Im not expecting prices to go crazy again, but also not to have the bottom fall out), then how relevant is how many disposable plastic lenses you could hoard for the same money anyway?
additionally, I perceive making value arguments about things you can't afford difficult/questionable. perhaps some banker's veyron is the best million dollars he ever spent? not like I would know, so I don't purport to have an opinion on the matter.
what I can say is that I don't think the 50AA draws anything like the Ziess 50/2 makro and I don't think the Otus does either. but then, I personally know people who couldn't tell you a coke from a pepsi.
many people's arguments are predicated on me sharing an opinion with them as to whether the deficiencies of product A compared to B net positively towards the less expensive lens. we all pick our battles and clearly some people can live with something that is in their own estimation 10% worse. I know a lot of people that for their hobby simply cannot. Im afraid that to the detriment of my wallet I'm one of them.
Nah, affordability does not really enter into the picture for me (for precisely the reason you mention—the lens retains its value), nor, I suspect many of us here. But does it make much sense to grab this lens over say, a MP 50 + a lux 80 + $4500 in more gear? One of the well-known ironies of owning expensive gear is that, after tying up a certain amount of cash, it really costs very little to nothing in the lens department.
I have very briefly handled the 50AA - when I was purchasing a used R80/1.4. Cute little lens. Like others I appreciate the technological achievement and amount of engineering that went into the lens. But at the end of the day it is still "just" a 50/2. And there are a lot of nice 50's out there. I am not even sure I would choose that 50AA even if cost was no issue at all.
EDIT:
If that is the lens you want then the cost is not the single most important factor - provided you have the money and that money is not needed for other camera investments that would be put on hold. As an investment I am not to sure about the value. Once you scratch or scuff the 50AA the value will plummet beyond the cost of another lens - or x times more! And if you don't plan to actually use it - then what is the point? Bragging rights? Hoping people will pay more over time and sell it for a profit?
The lens will only retain its value for as long as you keep it in the box/mint. A used lens of that kind (in existence and in production) does not increase in value. The Leica R80/1.4 is more of a character lens and no longer in production and will over time probably not decrease in value - provided it is in decent shape.
For me the prospect of balancing a purchase of a single 50mm lens against another well made 50 (with macro) and a fairly uniquely rendering and superb portrait lens (80/1.4) alone is beyond my imagination. Tip the scale over with another $4500 and it is beyond belief for me.
I honestly don't mind people buying specialty lenses and having expensive equipment but when ONE fairly common focal length is costing more than a high quality set up for most discerning photographers I think I simply cannot relate to that. Even during those fab moments when I have too much money and don't know what to spend it on. Which isn't too often.
Andrew Gough wrote:
How about some samples from the AA?
Are you asking me?
I'm in Los Angeles right now, when I'm back in Singapore next week I'll toss some up... JPG or DNG?
You can check the M thread, as you know, I always post what lens I used to take the shot.
I don't mind having an 50APO image thread.. Would be kind of cool, since there seems to be sample variation (that's neither good nor bad, just different).
nebula wrote:
.....But more to the point, I was interested in the performance of this lens. Is it that good? New designer. 2012 technology......
I would suggest if you're interested in learning more about this lens to watch this video interviewing Peter Karbe who was instrumental in its design. This lens has been in the works for close to 16 years.
As to the question is it any good? The lens was designed to reach its peak performance with the Leica Monochrom, "because it has the resolution", "and the entire imaging chain is so lossless, that it's only then that the performance of the lens comes across."...
That kind of sounds like marketing but perhaps there's some truth to it. The 16 years thing I'd imagine was the result of technological limitations present when the idea was conceived. I do happen to think that a substantial fraction of this lens' value is related to its small size which to me is pure waste after having commited to SLR lenses on the A7, and just generally. That said a small part of me wants to liquidate everything for a monochrom and the 50AA. How that would simplify (limit?) things.
Kosmoskatten, I though your remarks were spot on. And it's true: a couple barrel scratches and the value drops by $1000. Another hindrance to productivity (having to baby ones gear—though this is always good policy for buyers/sellers of used lenses).
arduluth wrote:
I tried one out in the strangest of places. On the Midway of the Minnesota State Fair, I ended up chatting with a A7 user. We swapped lenses for a few minutes with him using my Contax G 45mm.
It seemed to have something really special for nearer shots, but at further focus distances I was less impressed. My Contax G 45mm, an excellent lens, was the yardstick - in more general terms it was excellent. It looked and felt great, obviously a lot nicer to focus than my G45. :-P
It would be interesting to try the 50AA on an a7 and M240 side by side for various scenes. My tests with the a7/a7R/a7S indicate that you can't assume any old M-series 50mm will be a safe focal length. For example, with distant/infinity scenes, the 50 Lux ASPH on a Sony smears along the edges yet the same scene with the M240, even wide open, is sharp. It's possible the 50AA could interact negatively with the Sony sensor toppings, which if it is the case, will introduce 'non-native' character to the look of the lens.
adamdewilde wrote:
Are you asking me?
I'm in Los Angeles right now, when I'm back in Singapore next week I'll toss some up... JPG or DNG?
You can check the M thread, as you know, I always post what lens I used to take the shot.
I don't mind having an 50APO image thread.. Would be kind of cool, since there seems to be sample variation (that's neither good nor bad, just different).
I would just like to see some images from the lens!
nebula wrote:
A whimsical discussion on this new lens. I don't use a leica body but the kerfuffle surrounding this lens is legendary. Anyone tried it on a leica or otherwise? I "won" one on ebay a while back for only $5000 and quickly realized it was a scam. Reporting it to ebay did nothing (funnily enough). But more to the point, I was interested in the performance of this lens. Is it that good? New designer. 2012 technology. $8000 pricetag. Asph + apo + tiny size. That's some special engineering right there. But $8000 will also get you a Sony A7R + Zeiss 2/135 APO + 2/50 Makro Planar + Zeiss 1.4/35. Or 800 Dominoes pizzas....Show more →
The A7R + Zeiss appeal to me a lot more than the pizza!
Leica has always been expensive, partly because its handmade in Germany, at least it used to be. It's generally good /great, but you can still get great photos with an inexpensive 50/1.8, like many of us do. Lamborghini vs. Chevy, Rolex vs timex. Luxury goods.
I think you came out ahead on the ebay auction, personally. Although the 50/.95 appeals to me.
I'd sooner keep the 50APO and sell the 50/0.95 although the Noctilux is a more flexible lens.
I'd have a harder time deciding between the 50APO and 50Summilux-ASPH. I know I'd keep the APO, but the Lux has a lot of appeal.
I'm back in Singapore, just landed (going to sleep now).. I'll post some images in a day or two. I also think I have a good 50APO / 55FE comparison. Let you guys decide which is which
AmbientMike wrote:
The 50/2 APO is possibly the best performing 50 ever, but the 0.95 should be usable/good wide open and still very sharp stopped down
Roger Cicala ran the Leica 50s against the Otus, Sigma, CV Nokton, ZM Planar and Sonnar in this very revealing study. Purely by the numbers of course, the 50 Summilux exceeds the resolution of every tested 50 but the AA at their respective widest aperture. The Noctilux takes its time and barely tops the 50 Summicron non APO at f/2--but who cares since why spend $11k to shoot it at f/2?
The economical Sigma ART really shines by f/2, exceeding the unwieldy Otus in central sharpness and now second only to the 50AA.
Now, whether any one of these renders to one's tastes, can be manually focused precisely & repeatedly on target at say, f/0.95 or is of a heft lending itself to regular use, is another matter altogether.
This was my attempt at trying to make all the lenses look similar enough to be a part of a series. Originally, I was trying to decide if the Noctilux was worth keeping for wedding usage (I'm still tossed on this one). I was also trying to see how viable the A7+55FE was for weddings.. And although the IQ is fantastic, and when you know how to use it, the lens gives you great results. I didn't like the ergonomics of the A7, I didn't like the fact that I can hit focus faster and more accurately with the M240, and I didn't like the fact that the lens 80% of the time gives me poor results, unless I'm conscious of how I'm shooting with it. Also, I don't like the Sony sensors all that much.
(NOT IN ORDER) Shot with 50APO (M240), 50 Noctilux (M240), 55 FE (A7)... For fun, guess which is which:
So I've never shot JPG files with the M240.. Thought it would be fun to try since my wife and I were on a walk through one of Los Angele's many parks. Here are two (straight out of camera) JPG files, that I've downsized in LR only. I actually really like M240 JPG files to be honest, who would have known?!
50APO (since you wanna see samples), nothing serious, shot wide open (if you can call f/2 wide open). First example is a somewhat close shot with a really busy background close to subject, second shot is a busy-ish background far from subject:
I just love the way the 50APO renders.. Might not be to everyones taste, but for sure to mine.. This BTW was an overcast day, the 50APO gives a nice smokey mood on overcast days.. I'll dig up some samples on bright sunny days in a while if I can find the time.
(EDIT: I compressed them in LR, but they don't look sharp anymore?! Oh well..) Also, my wife is sad because I told her there were rattlesnakes in the bushes (she was admiring some desert flowers when I mentioned the snakes).
Those SOOC Jpegs look really good. You didn't do anything to the skin tone? Have you modified any of the stock settings?
As for the three samples... I think you did a good job anonymizing the lenses. I'd have to see full rez files to see if I can spot the micro detail characteristics typical in Leica lenses. My guess would be Sony, Nocti, APO.
Curious what the factors are with the Sony that you don't like? I have limited experience with it, but thought it was pretty easy to shoot. Blur character was very similar to the Lux ASPH, though slightly more defined, IMO.
