adamdewilde wrote:
I'd sooner keep the 50APO and sell the 50/0.95 although the Noctilux is a more flexible lens.
I'd have a harder time deciding between the 50APO and 50Summilux-ASPH. I know I'd keep the APO, but the Lux has a lot of appeal.
I'm back in Singapore, just landed (going to sleep now).. I'll post some images in a day or two. I also think I have a good 50APO / 55FE comparison. Let you guys decide which is which
Love that first shot in your second set. Just beautiful
I'd love to have one, but we can't have everything, and your sentiment about the 50Lux, which actually is one my list, is telling. It's not a perfect lens, but it has such an incredible look on the M9. You see them now for 2800.
That and the way overpriced 75 Lux are really the only sirens effecting me these days.
I sure love to look and the APO shots though, and TY for the story, Pandorf
oh yeah, i'm making these guesses based on color and bokeh.
first shot – looks like sony colors and has pretty neutral bokeh (as the 55/1.8 typically does at this distance).
second shot – is the easiest since the noct has a distinct bokeh signature and it looks like it was shot wide open or close to it. the color also looks more leica like.
third shot – same colors as the second and has the same nisan bokeh near the corners that is present in your first shot with the AA on the following post.
adamdewilde wrote:
This was my attempt at trying to make all the lenses look similar enough to be a part of a series. Originally, I was trying to decide if the Noctilux was worth keeping for wedding usage (I'm still tossed on this one). I was also trying to see how viable the A7+55FE was for weddings.. And although the IQ is fantastic, and when you know how to use it, the lens gives you great results. I didn't like the ergonomics of the A7, I didn't like the fact that I can hit focus faster and more accurately with the M240, and I didn't like the fact that the lens 80% of the time gives me poor results, unless I'm conscious of how I'm shooting with it. Also, I don't like the Sony sensors all that much.
(NOT IN ORDER) Shot with 50APO (M240), 50 Noctilux (M240), 55 FE (A7)... For fun, guess which is which:
Though I have to say you did a great job on Sony,(you really make it low contrast and low clarity, which is good way work with FE I think) usually I see worse result from it. FE is very sharp lens cross corner, but I never be a fan of its Bokeh and focus transition. But is it that lens impressive cross frame sharp at f1.8 on A7R, I might need get it back once I am back to Sony. It is remind me a lot of Nikon 85mm 1.8G, just simply works and get job done, but never feel excited using it. The difference between it to say 50AA is very subtle, and I know careful PP can make lens looks prettier
It is actually very difficult to tell FE and AA in this case, if not by color. (Noct is obvious and have similar color as last one ) the background to subject ratio is too big to show flaw of lens with worse Bokeh.
Nice work on those pictures, and thank for sharing.
Adam, wonderful images, but is hard to differentiate with these series of shots! But that is telling in its own right, that the images can be very similar. All great lenses and just a matter of picking the right lens that suits ones style.
I have always loved the 50AA, particularly when combined with the Monochrome. Your shots with the M240/50AA are excellent, and just love the sharpness combined with the gentle roll off
adamdewilde wrote:
You won't miss anything having one good lens vs a few lenses.
I am not sure I am following you here. If the choice is one good (superb?) lens (50AA) vs a few lenses of different focal length (lika a 25/2, 50 macro and APO135/2 for a lot less than that 50AA) then I am sure that I would miss many things. Not only the money I spent - but also missed possibilities when shooting on location. Having only a 50mm lens is quite limiting in the long run. Having too many lenses can be limiting too - but I'd take a three lens spread over a single lens every time. For single lens trips I prefer wider lenses.
But maybe I did not understand your posting
Anyway, a lens of the 50AA caliber is fantastic as far as lenses go. I don't believe for one seond it took 16 years to concoct - it was more likely 16 years to realize the product, which is two very different things.
There are other optics like the Coastal Optics 60/4 that cost a lot, performs admirably but are slightly limited as far as general purpose lenses go. The problem with the 50AA is that it slots right into a plethora of general purpose lenses of great caliber - and it is still "just another 50". Perhaps not even the 50 with the greatest bokeh/character in the group of similar lenses.
I could actually afford a 50AA but I honestly don't think I would get my moneys worth out of it. I am quite happy but not over the moon with the FE55; Zhangye is right on the money - it reminds me too of the Nikkor AF 85/1.8 which I never grew fond of but is a capable performer. But, the FE55 does a good job and it has gotten one ding and one scratch already so now it is broken in. I would literally cry if that had happened to the 50AA.
All that said I was very impressed by the early samples of the Monochrom and the 50AA combination!
I would like to see more of what the combination is capable of and I would love to see printed images one day. I am not worthy of sporting such a combination myself but I tip my hat to anyone who swings one on a daily basis.
I have to say the 50AA renders nicely with that punch even in overcast light. It reminds me of my favorite "normal" lens of the ones I have had: Schneider APO 90/4 on the Rollei 6008 integral, medium format.
The punch and the gentle roll off is what I like, looks very natural.
Of the bridal shots I would say I prefer the first one to the last (third) one, but can't say which lens is which, not on this lap top. The middle one is obviously the Noctilux.
I compared the FE55 to the R80 since I had them both and the R80 had more character but in reality the FE55 landed more usable people shots and the people that viewed the images could not differentiate between the two. I was happy enough to let the R80 go - with some lingering regrets of course - but with moving kids I could simply not keep up with the R80. The FE55 landed me a much higher success rate - and with very nice results. I could not justify keeping the R80 just for portraits of people that hardly move.
I'll let the rest guess before I comment (but the Noctilux shot is pretty obvious) and yes, full resolution samples tell more of the story, and show more of a divide in IQ between shots.. As for the A7, I found it to be troublesome to focus in backlit situations, and in darker room conditions (plus it doesn't keep up with fast moving subjects). I also find that the 55FE can get REALLY sketchy at certain camera to subject to background distances. Where as the 50APO I have a hard time creating sketchy bokeh with it. This is important for me, as sometimes I don't get a chance to pose my subjects or position myself for the 55FEs ideal working distance (keep in mind sketchy bokeh is subjective, and what I consider good bokeh, others may not like).
Overall the colours and tones are more pleasing from the 50APO/M240 combo. I also like how it maintains a nice contrast in almost all situations, and the falloff to OOF areas is wonderful both in front of and behind the point of focus. And although sharpness is the last thing I care about, it's sharp. Again, one area I don't like is how the flare can be overwhelming, but that's easily avoided with a bit of practice (and does look great if that's what you're going for).
When shooting something other then people. I love the lifelike quality of the lens. It's really true to life. Very matter of fact, without being clinical or boring. The 35FLE also gives me this though at times, so it's not exclusive to the 50APO.
I have about 5 more shoots where I used the A7 side by side with the M240 before I made the decision to bail on the system (had the A7, A7r before I quit Sony, but bought the A7s to test with M lenses briefly). I also used the A7 system for two or three weddings. I liked the results, but ultimately didn't like the effort I had to put into being mindful of my shooting distances / and the troublesome processing of the Sony files (probably because I'm not use to Sony files). Plus the auto focusing gave me a lot of problems in actual real world usage. Oh and having to use the adapter and ZA lenses for the odd times I needed a 24 or 85 or 135mm lens. I'll probably love the A7 in a few years when it matures and they have more lenses for it. You really can't beat the size and the superior IQ is hard to deny, even if it's a bit hard getting use to processing the files. And the tech upgrades that Sony keeps coming out with is really hard to resist.
As for the direct comparison of the 50LUX and 55FE. I find that the 50LUX has a bit more softness overall (not softer point of focus, just an overall softer look), whereas the 55FE would really have the subject look like a cardboard cutout in some shots. It's not bad, it's just very Zeiss. And I agree with you, that the 55FE can have more defined bokeh. When you add all that to the Sony sensor.. It can be a bit plastic and jarring.
As for the SOOC jpg files. I didn't do anything abnormal, just set the WB/exposure/film settings manually and shot on Smooth Color Film mode. It's what I do when shooting raw files most of the time, but just decided to use JPG settings to see what the M240 would do. An important thing to note however. The old M240 LCD screens are spot on, the new ones are way to warm. Even after me changing my newest M240 and testing 5 sets for the one that was the coolest. So this will mess with your perceived manual WB. So it's best to use your own judgement if you have a newer M240 or MP-240. A grey card works if you like your WB true to life (I use one 60% of the time).
uhoh7 wrote:
Love that first shot in your second set. Just beautiful
I'd love to have one, but we can't have everything, and your sentiment about the 50Lux, which actually is one my list, is telling. It's not a perfect lens, but it has such an incredible look on the M9. You see them now for 2800.
That and the way overpriced 75 Lux are really the only sirens effecting me these days.
I sure love to look and the APO shots though, and TY for the story, Pandorf
Thank you!
Seriously, the 50Summilux-asph is the way to go
kosmoskatten wrote:
I am not sure I am following you here. If the choice is one good (superb?) lens (50AA) vs a few lenses of different focal length (lika a 25/2, 50 macro and APO135/2 for a lot less than that 50AA) then I am sure that I would miss many things. Not only the money I spent - but also missed possibilities when shooting on location. Having only a 50mm lens is quite limiting in the long run. Having too many lenses can be limiting too - but I'd take a three lens spread over a single lens every time. For single lens trips I prefer wider lenses.
But maybe I did not understand your posting
Anyway, a lens of the 50AA caliber is fantastic as far as lenses go. I don't believe for one seond it took 16 years to concoct - it was more likely 16 years to realize the product, which is two very different things.
There are other optics like the Coastal Optics 60/4 that cost a lot, performs admirably but are slightly limited as far as general purpose lenses go. The problem with the 50AA is that it slots right into a plethora of general purpose lenses of great caliber - and it is still "just another 50". Perhaps not even the 50 with the greatest bokeh/character in the group of similar lenses.
I could actually afford a 50AA but I honestly don't think I would get my moneys worth out of it. I am quite happy but not over the moon with the FE55; Zhangye is right on the money - it reminds me too of the Nikkor AF 85/1.8 which I never grew fond of but is a capable performer. But, the FE55 does a good job and it has gotten one ding and one scratch already so now it is broken in. I would literally cry if that had happened to the 50AA.
All that said I was very impressed by the early samples of the Monochrom and the 50AA combination!
I would like to see more of what the combination is capable of and I would love to see printed images one day. I am not worthy of sporting such a combination myself but I tip my hat to anyone who swings one on a daily basis. ...Show more →
You don't miss what you don't have. Honestly it's a hard concept to explain. I've had 1 lens setups and I've had almost all the lenses one could want. For how I shoot, one lens is enough to get the job done (as someone who takes photos for a living).
To explain it simply. I won't look for macro shots if I don't have a macro lens. I won't try to cram everything into a frame if I don't have a wide angle lens. You curb your way of shooting based on what you have available to you. I found that the more lenses I brought with me, the more of a chore shooting became. Sure, sometimes you want/need a wide, or a tele, but that's a choice you make.
I frequently use a 35/75 combo for weddings, and mostly a 50 for everything else. Could I get away with using the 50mm for weddings? Sure, the way I shoot would allow for it.. And I'd probably adjust my style of shooting a slight bit to accommodate the one lens setup.
I use to travel with at least 21/50/100 for ZE and one time I went to the same destination with just the 50MPZE and found I took better landscape and portraits that trip, then I did the first trip where I brought all three focal lengths. It's more a comfortability thing, but I found it was easier to see things more clearly with one focal length, then having a bunch. Although, I'm not much of a zooms guy, so maybe that has something to do with it?
One last thing to note.. With Leica and most ALT lenses, we buy them for their unique characteristics. And like all unique lenses, there's a learning period. Learning to use one lens in a focal length your comfortable with, will yield better results then having 5 of the best lenses money can buy.
That's just my opinion, and opinions vary greatly.
As for how long it took to create the 50APO, who knows... I do LOVE the way it renders, and no other lens makes me as happy.. And for my happiness I'd pay the $8k... I'd also sell it in a second if I had to pay doctor bills ect.. At the end of the day, it's just a tool for my amusement, and I can get similar real world results using a 55FE as I demonstrated above.
I have to say the 50AA renders nicely with that punch even in overcast light. It reminds me of my favorite "normal" lens of the ones I have had: Schneider APO 90/4 on the Rollei 6008 integral, medium format.
The punch and the gentle roll off is what I like, looks very natural.
Of the bridal shots I would say I prefer the first one to the last (third) one, but can't say which lens is which, not on this lap top. The middle one is obviously the Noctilux.
I compared the FE55 to the R80 since I had them both and the R80 had more character but in reality the FE55 landed more usable people shots and the people that viewed the images could not differentiate between the two. I was happy enough to let the R80 go - with some lingering regrets of course - but with moving kids I could simply not keep up with the R80. The FE55 landed me a much higher success rate - and with very nice results. I could not justify keeping the R80 just for portraits of people that hardly move. ...Show more →
Thanks!
Don't regret selling the R80... You actually like the 55FE more then the 50APO
You guys are right, 55FE, Noct, 50APO. And I agree, it's harder to tell with the samples I posted for various reasons. 1) I tried to pick similar shots. 2) images are small jpg files.
Though I have to say you did a great job on Sony,(you really make it low contrast and low clarity, which is good way work with FE I think) usually I see worse result from it. FE is very sharp lens cross corner, but I never be a fan of its Bokeh and focus transition. But is it that lens impressive cross frame sharp at f1.8 on A7R, I might need get it back once I am back to Sony. It is remind me a lot of Nikon 85mm 1.8G, just simply works and get job done, but never feel excited using it. The difference between it to say 50AA is very subtle, and I know careful PP can make lens looks prettier
It is actually very difficult to tell FE and AA in this case, if not by color. (Noct is obvious and have similar color as last one ) the background to subject ratio is too big to show flaw of lens with worse Bokeh.
Nice work on those pictures, and thank for sharing. ...Show more →
Thanks... Will try to put up a few more examples in a different scenario (a different shoot on a different day, in a different location).
BTW - All your shots are fantastic, you don't have much to worry about, no matter what lens you use!
kosmoskatten wrote:
I have to say the 50AA renders nicely with that punch even in overcast light. It reminds me of my favorite "normal" lens of the ones I have had: Schneider APO 90/4 on the Rollei 6008 integral, medium format.
Could you describe that lens in great detail please? I am very close to deciding to buy one for my Hy6, but I am still undecided between the 90 and 120 Macros. I would rarely use it for Macro, but would appreciate the close focus ability. I would use it for portraits, urbex, forests and just general duty on top. First I thought I would prefer the longer effective focal length of the 120, but the more I think about it, the more I realise how rarely I use lenses longer thwn normal lenses.
My guess is also 1. Sony 2. Noctilux 3. 50AA, more because I think I recognise the slightly bluish greens, and the colours of the last two are more similar.
The 55FE is a very capable lens, although its rendering isn't quite to my taste, but then, neither is the 50AA, which I find slightly too nervous. I would buy the 50 Lux ASPH again, in a perfect world, if only I loved the A7 more, and if the 50 Lux ASPH worked better with it. However, I am not a fan of focusing tabs, so I would need the LHSA version
Yes, the FE55 is a cost effective solution and I think you are right on the money with the idea of working with what you have. My best set up over the years has been a three lens set up but in reality I used two lenses 90% of the time.
carstenw wrote:
My guess is also 1. Sony 2. Noctilux 3. 50AA, more because I think I recognise the slightly bluish greens, and the colours of the last two are more similar.
The 55FE is a very capable lens, although its rendering isn't quite to my taste, but then, neither is the 50AA, which I find slightly too nervous. I would buy the 50 Lux ASPH again, in a perfect world, if only I loved the A7 more, and if the 50 Lux ASPH worked better with it. However, I am not a fan of focusing tabs, so I would need the LHSA version ...Show more →
I never used to like focusing tabs either. Got use to them, now it's hard to work without them.
I've put a roll through a 6008? with the APO 90/4, if I'm not mistaken (it's the black camera with green buttons). But I cannot find the hdd with my old film scans, sorry I've been looking for that hdd for a while as I need it for reference. I'm trying to decide on another MF film body. Tossed between getting that big fuji RF or a pentax 67 for the most part. I'm flexible and open to options as to what I should get (other then a Contax645, I have a bunch of them sitting in my dry box taking up space). Thinking I want 6x7 format btw.
kosmoskatten wrote:
Adam: thank you for the reply.
Yes, the FE55 is a cost effective solution and I think you are right on the money with the idea of working with what you have. My best set up over the years has been a three lens set up but in reality I used two lenses 90% of the time.
adamdewilde wrote:
I never used to like focusing tabs either. Got use to them, now it's hard to work without them.
I've put a roll through a 6008? with the APO 90/4, if I'm not mistaken (it's the black camera with green buttons). But I cannot find the hdd with my old film scans, sorry I've been looking for that hdd for a while as I need it for reference. I'm trying to decide on another MF film body. Tossed between getting that big fuji RF or a pentax 67 for the most part. I'm flexible and open to options as to what I should get (other then a Contax645, I have a bunch of them sitting in my dry box taking up space). Thinking I want 6x7 format btw. ...Show more →
Mamiya 7? I always was attracted to the concept of the Mamiya 6, and to some degree, the 7, back in the film days, but never made the leap from 35mm to MF... and now I have no interest or patience to go back to film. I guess it depends on what you want another MF film camera for...
I've been looking for that hdd for a while as I need it for reference. I'm trying to decide on another MF film body. Tossed between getting that big fuji RF or a pentax 67 for the most part. I'm flexible and open to options as to what I should get (other then a Contax645, I have a bunch of them sitting in my dry box taking up space). Thinking I want 6x7 format btw.