This topic is in the 2014 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2014Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
p.30 #1Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Jako,
Thanks for those!
On the first photo it looks like it might have a bit of field curvature (centre gets more in focus nearer to you but branch and side of the hill are sharp further away (3m or so)
In any case, the edge looks great!
I think this is it. I can def consider this lens as a worthy exchange to the RX1. I def like the size more than the FE 35mm 1.4.
That looks like it is what is going to be like by the end of the year!
Thanks again!
Ron,
Yes indeed. I am not holding by breadth for the A7r II being able to take ZM lenses and be as good as a modded-A7r or Leica M.
It would be nice indeed to have a Leica M vs A7/A7r Mod comparison to see whether any difference remains, as you say. I would imagine Koralivision should invest in doing such test or offer a free modification to anyone willing to do the tests on their behalf.
Thanks for those!
On the first photo it looks like it might have a bit of field curvature (centre gets more in focus nearer to you but branch and side of the hill are sharp further away (3m or so)
In any case, the edge looks great!
I think this is it. I can def consider this lens as a worthy exchange to the RX1. I def like the size more than the FE 35mm 1.4.
That looks like it is what is going to be like by the end of the year!
Thanks again!
Ron,
Yes indeed. I am not holding by breadth for the A7r II being able to take ZM lenses and be as good as a modded-A7r or Leica M.
It would be nice indeed to have a Leica M vs A7/A7r Mod comparison to see whether any difference remains, as you say. I would imagine Koralivision should invest in doing such test or offer a free modification to anyone willing to do the tests on their behalf.
Jun 15, 2015 at 12:49 PM
p.30 #2Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Ron,
Indeed, it would be interesting to see side by side controlled shootout between modded A7R and M240 just for the sake of having point of reference. Someday, someone may post such test or I may just hookup with my M240 shooting photogs for the heck of testing (on FM Charles_k was the closest one to do it but he moved into his own direction)
In any event, using RF lenses on non-RF FF (Sony for now) cameras is just an attempt to combine interesting, small size glass with high MP/quality body. This aside, photo gear is simply a tool and I enjoy viewing images shot in all formats and cross-formats as long as they eye catching.
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9778_1600.jpg
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9771_1600.jpg
Indeed, it would be interesting to see side by side controlled shootout between modded A7R and M240 just for the sake of having point of reference. Someday, someone may post such test or I may just hookup with my M240 shooting photogs for the heck of testing (on FM Charles_k was the closest one to do it but he moved into his own direction)
In any event, using RF lenses on non-RF FF (Sony for now) cameras is just an attempt to combine interesting, small size glass with high MP/quality body. This aside, photo gear is simply a tool and I enjoy viewing images shot in all formats and cross-formats as long as they eye catching.
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9778_1600.jpg
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9771_1600.jpg
Jun 15, 2015 at 03:49 PM
p.30 #3Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
It looks like BSI could be all that for ZM lenses according to a screenshot here:
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/a7rii-bloggers-and-readers-reaction-four-hidden-cool-features-and-a-list-of-cons/#disqus_thread
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/a7rii-bloggers-and-readers-reaction-four-hidden-cool-features-and-a-list-of-cons/#disqus_thread
Jun 16, 2015 at 06:46 AM
p.30 #4Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
I still don't buy it. In the paper "From the series of articles on lens names: Distagon, Biogon and Hologon" by Dr. Nasse of Zeiss, he specifically states:
Lenses with a very large beam tilt react in a much more sensitive manner to a change of refractive index in the image space caused by filter plates in front of the sensor (such as low pass and IR-blocking filters). If the filter plate is not considered in the design of the lens, the edge definition will suffer. The effect of the additional path through the glass grows exponentially with the beam inclination. A Distagon which never achieves more than 20° beam tilt in the corner of the image reacts more tolerantly than a symmetrical wide- angle lens, which might reach a 45° tilt. This is why filters in digital Leicas are very thin – to remain compatible with older optics.
If the filter is significantly thicker, the contrast transfer for the image edge becomes worse for tangential structures. The focus is shifted to greater distances for tangential structures by the additional path through the glass. If the best edge definition is to be achieved, then all that can be done is to stop down further.
The M9's sensor was nowhere near like BSI, based on ~10 year old tech with deep pixel wells, though microlenses were optimized. It did not exhibit significant edge smearing (color shift remained a problem). It had a <1mm thick cover glass, IIRC.
The M240's sensor was designed with very shallow pixel wells, yet the cover glass remained very thin (IR contamination remains a minor problem).
Shallow pixel wells will help reduce or eliminate color shifts. It remains the sensor topping thickness that will affect edge smearing. This isn't to say the a7RII won't be more RF lens friendly, but this will be primarily due to sensor toppings, and remains to be determined.
Lenses with a very large beam tilt react in a much more sensitive manner to a change of refractive index in the image space caused by filter plates in front of the sensor (such as low pass and IR-blocking filters). If the filter plate is not considered in the design of the lens, the edge definition will suffer. The effect of the additional path through the glass grows exponentially with the beam inclination. A Distagon which never achieves more than 20° beam tilt in the corner of the image reacts more tolerantly than a symmetrical wide- angle lens, which might reach a 45° tilt. This is why filters in digital Leicas are very thin – to remain compatible with older optics.
If the filter is significantly thicker, the contrast transfer for the image edge becomes worse for tangential structures. The focus is shifted to greater distances for tangential structures by the additional path through the glass. If the best edge definition is to be achieved, then all that can be done is to stop down further.
The M9's sensor was nowhere near like BSI, based on ~10 year old tech with deep pixel wells, though microlenses were optimized. It did not exhibit significant edge smearing (color shift remained a problem). It had a <1mm thick cover glass, IIRC.
The M240's sensor was designed with very shallow pixel wells, yet the cover glass remained very thin (IR contamination remains a minor problem).
Shallow pixel wells will help reduce or eliminate color shifts. It remains the sensor topping thickness that will affect edge smearing. This isn't to say the a7RII won't be more RF lens friendly, but this will be primarily due to sensor toppings, and remains to be determined.
Jun 16, 2015 at 11:43 AM
p.30 #5Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Ron, I feel the same about the BSI; colour shading and shift may improve, but with regular A7 series 2mm or so topping thickness rays in extreme corners still will most likely cause smearing.
Kolari has two versions of sensor cover replacement, the later being coated and slightly thinner (M9 thickness?) than the original clear/uncoated replacement. It would be interesting to see differences between them with RF wides. Hopefully Kolari will be able come up with a replacement on IBIS, even at the expense of removing the IBIS function altogether.
Back to ZM35...
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9772_1600.jpg
Kolari has two versions of sensor cover replacement, the later being coated and slightly thinner (M9 thickness?) than the original clear/uncoated replacement. It would be interesting to see differences between them with RF wides. Hopefully Kolari will be able come up with a replacement on IBIS, even at the expense of removing the IBIS function altogether.
Back to ZM35...
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9772_1600.jpg
Jun 16, 2015 at 01:30 PM
p.30 #6Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
JaKo wrote:
Ron, I feel the same about the BSI; colour shading and shift may improve, but with regular A7 series 2mm or so topping thickness rays in extreme corners still will most likely cause smearing.
Kolari has two versions of sensor cover replacement, the later being coated and slightly thinner (M9 thickness?) than the original clear/uncoated replacement. It would be interesting to see differences between them with RF wides. Hopefully Kolari will be able come up with a replacement on IBIS, even at the expense of removing the IBIS function altogether.
Back to ZM35...
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9772_1600.jpg
Jack, the current Kolari filter is a different type of glass, which has humidity-resistant property, than the original BG39. None of them is coated yet. Ilija is working on the coated version in conjunction with finding a way to put these fine filters on the A7 Mark 2 series. Since the glass production is back to normal, he might have both ready soon.
Ron, I feel the same about the BSI; colour shading and shift may improve, but with regular A7 series 2mm or so topping thickness rays in extreme corners still will most likely cause smearing.
Kolari has two versions of sensor cover replacement, the later being coated and slightly thinner (M9 thickness?) than the original clear/uncoated replacement. It would be interesting to see differences between them with RF wides. Hopefully Kolari will be able come up with a replacement on IBIS, even at the expense of removing the IBIS function altogether.
Back to ZM35...
http://www.kozera.ca/photos/images/_DSC9772_1600.jpg
Jack, the current Kolari filter is a different type of glass, which has humidity-resistant property, than the original BG39. None of them is coated yet. Ilija is working on the coated version in conjunction with finding a way to put these fine filters on the A7 Mark 2 series. Since the glass production is back to normal, he might have both ready soon.
Jun 16, 2015 at 01:50 PM
p.30 #7Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Thanks Hiep!
Not sure what the coating will add/improve, but I am happy with the clear version as it's effortless to clean with sensor gel without damaging the coating as with original Sony cover.
Not sure what the coating will add/improve, but I am happy with the clear version as it's effortless to clean with sensor gel without damaging the coating as with original Sony cover.
Jun 16, 2015 at 01:56 PM
p.30 #8Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Jack,
Do you get more dust on your camera since the modification of your A7r?
I'm hoping to see Kolari as well with a solution for the A7II, but unlike you, I would be sad to see the IBIS function lost if that is a price to pay. To me, that alone is a big attraction to move from the RX1 to the A7 series.
Do you get more dust on your camera since the modification of your A7r?
I'm hoping to see Kolari as well with a solution for the A7II, but unlike you, I would be sad to see the IBIS function lost if that is a price to pay. To me, that alone is a big attraction to move from the RX1 to the A7 series.
Jun 16, 2015 at 03:39 PM
p.30 #9Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
JaKo wrote:
Thanks Hiep!
Not sure what the coating will add/improve, but I am happy with the clear version as it's effortless to clean with sensor gel without damaging the coating as with original Sony cover.
It would help to deal with sensor reflection. My A7s exhibits more reflection after the mod, and Ilija thought this would help. Not that it matters to me, but it's good to address the problem.
Thanks Hiep!
Not sure what the coating will add/improve, but I am happy with the clear version as it's effortless to clean with sensor gel without damaging the coating as with original Sony cover.
It would help to deal with sensor reflection. My A7s exhibits more reflection after the mod, and Ilija thought this would help. Not that it matters to me, but it's good to address the problem.
Jun 16, 2015 at 03:46 PM
p.30 #10Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Accumulation of dust particles is no different than before, but due to thinner sensor cover they are more visible now, say at f/5.6
However, cleaning is easy with Gel Stick or Eclipse + pads. Most of the time dust is easily removed with a blast Zerostat gun and Giottos blower
However, cleaning is easy with Gel Stick or Eclipse + pads. Most of the time dust is easily removed with a blast Zerostat gun and Giottos blower
Jun 16, 2015 at 03:59 PM
p.30 #11Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Jack,
Thanks for the update on that. Good to know that there is no difference on that front and that is easily taken care of.
Need to keep working. Thanks again for the samples and the words of experience.
Looking forward to get that ZM at some point this year. Your samples sold me on it.
Cheers,
Thanks for the update on that. Good to know that there is no difference on that front and that is easily taken care of.
Need to keep working. Thanks again for the samples and the words of experience.
Looking forward to get that ZM at some point this year. Your samples sold me on it.
Cheers,
Jun 16, 2015 at 04:30 PM
p.30 #12Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Great deal here if anyone is looking for a copy: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/801224434-USE/zeiss_2112_846_35mm_f_1_4_distagon_t.html
Funny the lens in Japan is about that price new, they have really jacked the US prices up!
Funny the lens in Japan is about that price new, they have really jacked the US prices up!
Jun 16, 2015 at 08:30 PM
p.30 #13Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
A pentaptych with the lens on my new Leica M-P (240). Even better than on the M9-P. Hardly any color variation from corner to corner on the CMOSIS sensor, with no lens profile selected.
Pemetic Mountain, Acadia National Park, Maine, MMXV by Steven Keirstead, on Flickr
Edited on Jun 17, 2015 at 05:29 AM · View previous versions
Pemetic Mountain, Acadia National Park, Maine, MMXV by Steven Keirstead, on Flickr
Edited on Jun 17, 2015 at 05:29 AM · View previous versions
Jun 16, 2015 at 09:07 PM
p.30 #14Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Nate - is that really you or has someone hacked your account?!? 
Jun 16, 2015 at 09:36 PM
p.30 #15Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Nate? I'm Steve. http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~keirst/
Jun 16, 2015 at 10:03 PM
p.30 #16Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Sorry - should have been more clear - I meant TWoK.
Jun 16, 2015 at 10:06 PM
p.30 #18Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Gary Clennan wrote:
Nate - is that really you or has someone hacked your account?!?
It's really me! I just got an A7 and a 28/2 and might occasionally take pictures again. I finished my Master's and finally have some time again.
Nate - is that really you or has someone hacked your account?!?
It's really me! I just got an A7 and a 28/2 and might occasionally take pictures again. I finished my Master's and finally have some time again.
Jun 16, 2015 at 10:25 PM
p.30 #19Zeiss ZM 35 1.4
Hey Nate, great to see you back!
I was in Tokyo a month ago and while shopping noticed how much cheaper Zeiss and Voigtlander was there (bought the new 15/4.5). Unfortunately the 35/1.4 wasn't yet available, otherwise I would have bought it too! Map Camera seemed to have great prices, from the few stores I shopped. Yes, the US market pricing (and some other areas too) are quite high compared to Japan and EU. I couldn't believe it at first. I've been holding off on this lens in part for this reason. My feeling is Zeiss US is taking advantage of the exchange rate difference, though they recently reduced pricing on the ZE/ZF lenses, but not the low volume ZM. Will probably order it from the EU or Amazon Japan and have it shipped via Tenso. But will wait for the CV35/1.7 before making a decision.
Jack - wow, great pop in that image!
Sorry for the OT, but get me up to speed on a7 sensor cleaning - are you saying with the stock a7R, that the sensor glass is very sensitive to contact/wet cleaning? That would be frustrating since it sits exposed and likely to collect a lot of dust/dirt.
Hex - yeah, losing IBIS would be a big downside.
I was in Tokyo a month ago and while shopping noticed how much cheaper Zeiss and Voigtlander was there (bought the new 15/4.5). Unfortunately the 35/1.4 wasn't yet available, otherwise I would have bought it too! Map Camera seemed to have great prices, from the few stores I shopped. Yes, the US market pricing (and some other areas too) are quite high compared to Japan and EU. I couldn't believe it at first. I've been holding off on this lens in part for this reason. My feeling is Zeiss US is taking advantage of the exchange rate difference, though they recently reduced pricing on the ZE/ZF lenses, but not the low volume ZM. Will probably order it from the EU or Amazon Japan and have it shipped via Tenso. But will wait for the CV35/1.7 before making a decision.
Jack - wow, great pop in that image!
Sorry for the OT, but get me up to speed on a7 sensor cleaning - are you saying with the stock a7R, that the sensor glass is very sensitive to contact/wet cleaning? That would be frustrating since it sits exposed and likely to collect a lot of dust/dirt.
Hex - yeah, losing IBIS would be a big downside.
Jun 17, 2015 at 02:00 AM
