This topic is in the 2013 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2013Bailing on the A7r....
p.8 #1Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
Tim, plenty of good bird photos have been taken with non-foveon sensors. Her problem is the 300mm f4 is too sharp according to her.
Her's is the kind of insight one only gets after 2 decades of building a catalog of 'pictures'
http://i39./2evso79.jpg
which one looks better when you can see the whole picture?
Tim, plenty of good bird photos have been taken with non-foveon sensors. Her problem is the 300mm f4 is too sharp according to her.
Her's is the kind of insight one only gets after 2 decades of building a catalog of 'pictures'
http://i39./2evso79.jpg
which one looks better when you can see the whole picture?
Dec 09, 2013 at 03:55 PM
p.8 #2Bailing on the A7r....
He/she who can shoot the best Canada goose head photo is clearly the one most qualified to judge the A7.
Dec 09, 2013 at 03:57 PM
p.8 #3Bailing on the A7r....
tsdevine wrote:
If we're talking about the bird...a Foveon sensor is probably the route you'd have to go. At some point a standard Bayer pattern is going to give you artifacts. Also the lack of an AA filter will aggravate this type of issue as well.
In my experience the quail family (Odontophoridae) aggravate this problem too. I don't think Foveon will help because the pixels are still arranged in a regular pattern.
If we're talking about the bird...a Foveon sensor is probably the route you'd have to go. At some point a standard Bayer pattern is going to give you artifacts. Also the lack of an AA filter will aggravate this type of issue as well.
In my experience the quail family (Odontophoridae) aggravate this problem too. I don't think Foveon will help because the pixels are still arranged in a regular pattern.
Dec 09, 2013 at 04:01 PM
p.8 #4Bailing on the A7r....
Lower resolution sensors which also have AA filters will not resolve enough detail to expose the moire issue with feathers. (At normal shooting distances.)
Dec 09, 2013 at 04:13 PM
p.8 #5Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
Tim, plenty of good bird photos have been taken with non-foveon sensors. Her problem is the 300mm f4 is too sharp according to her.
Her's is the kind of insight one only gets after 2 decades of building a catalog of 'pictures'
http://i39./2evso79.jpg
Really Max? You are trying to shame me with a crop off of a web sized JPG from my flickr account or somewhere (as I never post full size pictures anywhere)??
Max, you really need to stop stalking me. My next step is going to be having a talk with Fred about this.
Tim, plenty of good bird photos have been taken with non-foveon sensors. Her problem is the 300mm f4 is too sharp according to her.
Her's is the kind of insight one only gets after 2 decades of building a catalog of 'pictures'
http://i39./2evso79.jpg
Really Max? You are trying to shame me with a crop off of a web sized JPG from my flickr account or somewhere (as I never post full size pictures anywhere)??
Max, you really need to stop stalking me. My next step is going to be having a talk with Fred about this.Dec 09, 2013 at 04:13 PM
p.8 #6Bailing on the A7r....
tsdevine wrote:
Lower resolution sensors which also have AA filters will not resolve enough detail to expose the moire issue with feathers. (At normal shooting distances.)
I've seen moire in the feathers of quail in photos made with an un-modified D200.
Lower resolution sensors which also have AA filters will not resolve enough detail to expose the moire issue with feathers. (At normal shooting distances.)
I've seen moire in the feathers of quail in photos made with an un-modified D200.
Dec 09, 2013 at 04:17 PM
p.8 #7Bailing on the A7r....
For 11X pixel peepers, a red-green transition from real life:
I thought of this thread as I stumbled across this wreath this morning:
A7r / FE35/2.8 @f2.8 near MFD
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 04:29 PM · View previous versions
I thought of this thread as I stumbled across this wreath this morning:
A7r / FE35/2.8 @f2.8 near MFD
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 04:29 PM · View previous versions
Dec 09, 2013 at 04:22 PM
p.8 #9Bailing on the A7r....
michaelwatkins wrote:
For 11X pixel peepers, a red-green transition from real life:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DsUnT-kxSiU/UqZCJwLyyiI/AAAAAAAAE1s/AJxD5LQzxjs/s800/a7r-fe35-red-green-11x.jpg
holy cr** what's that thing to the upper left upper left of your image of colored squares!?!
For 11X pixel peepers, a red-green transition from real life:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DsUnT-kxSiU/UqZCJwLyyiI/AAAAAAAAE1s/AJxD5LQzxjs/s800/a7r-fe35-red-green-11x.jpg
holy cr** what's that thing to the upper left upper left of your image of colored squares!?!
Dec 09, 2013 at 04:28 PM
p.8 #10Bailing on the A7r....
michaelwatkins wrote:
For 11X pixel peepers, a red-green transition from real life:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DsUnT-kxSiU/UqZCJwLyyiI/AAAAAAAAE1s/AJxD5LQzxjs/s800/a7r-fe35-red-green-11x.jpg
I thought of this thread as I stumbled across this wreath this morning:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TG1Gv95WX7A/UqZD57vQB-I/AAAAAAAAE14/goshGmQFR4U/s800/20131209DSC00911.jpg
A7r / FE35/2.8 @f2.8 near MFD
Looks OK to me. I think the pattern in the red is the weave of the ribbon,
For 11X pixel peepers, a red-green transition from real life:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-DsUnT-kxSiU/UqZCJwLyyiI/AAAAAAAAE1s/AJxD5LQzxjs/s800/a7r-fe35-red-green-11x.jpg
I thought of this thread as I stumbled across this wreath this morning:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TG1Gv95WX7A/UqZD57vQB-I/AAAAAAAAE14/goshGmQFR4U/s800/20131209DSC00911.jpg
A7r / FE35/2.8 @f2.8 near MFD
Looks OK to me. I think the pattern in the red is the weave of the ribbon,
Dec 09, 2013 at 04:46 PM
p.8 #11Bailing on the A7r....
flashinm wrote:
This garbage does not belong here Max. Make your point, but please leave the personal insults and rude behavior elsewhere.
Which garbage ? The out of focus, poorly over sharpened, low resolution (not even down sampled properly) purple fringed low contrast photo or the photographer that portrays herself as expert, attacks others for days then doesn't have the courage to stay on topic once someone draws attention to these facts.
Read the thread mate. She's been parading for days.
This garbage does not belong here Max. Make your point, but please leave the personal insults and rude behavior elsewhere.
Which garbage ? The out of focus, poorly over sharpened, low resolution (not even down sampled properly) purple fringed low contrast photo or the photographer that portrays herself as expert, attacks others for days then doesn't have the courage to stay on topic once someone draws attention to these facts.
Read the thread mate. She's been parading for days.
Dec 09, 2013 at 04:51 PM
p.8 #12Bailing on the A7r....
I didn't mean to imply that you'd never see it with lower resolution. It comes down to the resolving power of the lens, sensor, and the amount of blur introduced by the AA filter. At least that's my understanding.
You get the right repeating pattern at the right level of detail and you'll trip up a Bayer sensor. In fact I think Nikon recommends stopping down a lens to combat moire on the D800E. I believe that's to cause diffraction to lower the resolution of the lens to a point where it ends up being a poor mans AA filter.
-Tim
telyt wrote:
tsdevine wrote
Lower resolution sensors which also have AA filters will not resolve enough detail to expose the moire issue with feathers. (At normal shooting distances.)Dec 09, 2013 at 04:54 PM
p.8 #13Bailing on the A7r....
BTW, I do see slight moire in 2 portions of the shot I posted, it's a grid pattern on either side of the tree. It is very slight.
That tells me that the a7R sensor doesn't outresolve my Zeiss 15mm.
-Tim
Dec 09, 2013 at 05:02 PM
p.8 #14Bailing on the A7r....
tsdevine wrote:
I didn't mean to imply that you'd never see it with lower resolution. It comes down to the resolving power of the lens, sensor, and the amount of blur introduced by the AA filter. At least that's my understanding.
And the type of pattern. Feathers of the California Quail and Gambell's Quail have been more trouble for me than any other (California Towhee feathers come close).
I didn't mean to imply that you'd never see it with lower resolution. It comes down to the resolving power of the lens, sensor, and the amount of blur introduced by the AA filter. At least that's my understanding.
And the type of pattern. Feathers of the California Quail and Gambell's Quail have been more trouble for me than any other (California Towhee feathers come close).
Dec 09, 2013 at 05:04 PM
p.8 #15Bailing on the A7r....
I don't often shoot birds, but I can imagine feathers create a "perfect storm" for creating moire. And I can understand how some birds feathers might be harder to resolve than others.
telyt wrote:
And the type of pattern. Feathers of the California Quail and Gambell's Quail have been more trouble for me than any other (California Towhee feathers come close).
telyt wrote:
tsdevine wrote
I didn't mean to imply that you'd never see it with lower resolution. It comes down to the resolving power of the lens, sensor, and the amount of blur introduced by the AA filter. At least that's my understanding.Dec 09, 2013 at 05:13 PM
p.8 #16Bailing on the A7r....
I don't even have an A7r, although I'm curious about it.
But this thread reminds of what is defective about the internet.
This is becoming like a dpreview cat fight, where unsubstantiated rumor & measurebating/pixel peeping have overshadowed photography as a passtime.
So if I take a LF picture of a bird with vlevia, scan it at 9600 dpi, do I blame the lens, film, the scanner or my monitor if I detect moire??
But this thread reminds of what is defective about the internet.
This is becoming like a dpreview cat fight, where unsubstantiated rumor & measurebating/pixel peeping have overshadowed photography as a passtime.
So if I take a LF picture of a bird with vlevia, scan it at 9600 dpi, do I blame the lens, film, the scanner or my monitor if I detect moire??
Dec 09, 2013 at 05:36 PM
p.8 #18Bailing on the A7r....
itai195 wrote:
Why isn't it ever the bird's fault?
canada geese are inherently evil, just look into their cold black eyes:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6591434711_e00d12607b_o.jpg
sorry, no 11x crops. i can assure you though, the lens used isn't sharp at all but the tonal transitions from colored square to colored square look great!
Why isn't it ever the bird's fault?
canada geese are inherently evil, just look into their cold black eyes:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7157/6591434711_e00d12607b_o.jpg
sorry, no 11x crops. i can assure you though, the lens used isn't sharp at all but the tonal transitions from colored square to colored square look great!
Dec 09, 2013 at 05:46 PM
p.8 #19Bailing on the A7r....
sebboh wrote:
Canada geese are inherently evil, just look into their cold black eyes.
They are an important part of our evil plans.
Canada geese are inherently evil, just look into their cold black eyes.
They are an important part of our evil plans.
Dec 09, 2013 at 05:48 PM
p.8 #20Bailing on the A7r....
Herein lies a link to the full size version of the image I posted.
It is for standard forum member to member bashing purposes only (or equipment bashing), not for commercial use either for profit or not for profit (except the bashing exclusion.) I retain the sole rights to the image, even if it's undermined by some yet to be determined limitations listed but not limited to the following:
1. Any equipment limitations
2. Any software limitations
3. Any limitations imposed by human involvement in the processing of the image (a.k.a. user error)
It was processed through DxO and I was fiddling with their Prime noise reduction engine. I did have to crop slightly has I rotated it slightly and also had to pull the one side of the image forwards (to get better balance as it wasn't lined up as perfect as I thought.)
There is slight moire in two spots, we can play Where's Waldo but I'm sure people can find it.
Full Size Image
Personally, I'm giddy. To others this will be the last nail in the a7R coffin.
-Tim
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 06:01 PM · View previous versions
It is for standard forum member to member bashing purposes only (or equipment bashing), not for commercial use either for profit or not for profit (except the bashing exclusion.) I retain the sole rights to the image, even if it's undermined by some yet to be determined limitations listed but not limited to the following:
1. Any equipment limitations
2. Any software limitations
3. Any limitations imposed by human involvement in the processing of the image (a.k.a. user error)
It was processed through DxO and I was fiddling with their Prime noise reduction engine. I did have to crop slightly has I rotated it slightly and also had to pull the one side of the image forwards (to get better balance as it wasn't lined up as perfect as I thought.)
There is slight moire in two spots, we can play Where's Waldo but I'm sure people can find it.
Full Size Image
Personally, I'm giddy. To others this will be the last nail in the a7R coffin.
-Tim
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 06:01 PM · View previous versions
Dec 09, 2013 at 05:59 PM