This topic is in the 2013 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2013Bailing on the A7r....
p.6 #1Bailing on the A7r....
millsart wrote:
Who is Lloyd Chambers other than a guy who thinks I should have to pay to read his opinion on the internet ?
I mean, I know his site and that he does reviews, but what are his credentials as a photographer ? Does he have an extensive background in optic design or electrical engineering ?
Is he a celebrated landscape photographer with multiple galleries in exotic cites, or perhaps an experienced photo journalist with 200+ magazines covers and a Pulitzer to his credit ?
Not knowing anything about his make its a bit hard to judge if one should or shouldn't...Show more →
Nothing of this all, but he is a very well regarded reviewer and tester.
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 11:58 AM · View previous versions
Who is Lloyd Chambers other than a guy who thinks I should have to pay to read his opinion on the internet ?
I mean, I know his site and that he does reviews, but what are his credentials as a photographer ? Does he have an extensive background in optic design or electrical engineering ?
Is he a celebrated landscape photographer with multiple galleries in exotic cites, or perhaps an experienced photo journalist with 200+ magazines covers and a Pulitzer to his credit ?
Not knowing anything about his make its a bit hard to judge if one should or shouldn't...Show more →
Nothing of this all, but he is a very well regarded reviewer and tester.
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 11:58 AM · View previous versions
Dec 09, 2013 at 11:38 AM
p.6 #2Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
And again your not getting the larger point. It is about the transitions at the pixel level. Straight conversion, no sharpening, no smoothing.
The A7r fails at some transitions.
That is not the larger point, it is a very small point, that you and the nice mr. Chambers are blowing out of proportion. Heck, some are shooting directly jpeg all their lives, not that you have to, but I find this amusing while on the other thread we see smearing on the whole edge called acceptable. I didn't know the alt forum was so divers
And again your not getting the larger point. It is about the transitions at the pixel level. Straight conversion, no sharpening, no smoothing.
The A7r fails at some transitions.
That is not the larger point, it is a very small point, that you and the nice mr. Chambers are blowing out of proportion. Heck, some are shooting directly jpeg all their lives, not that you have to, but I find this amusing while on the other thread we see smearing on the whole edge called acceptable. I didn't know the alt forum was so divers
Dec 09, 2013 at 11:41 AM
p.6 #3Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
I see you actually fixed the link so we can now see what you were talking about - and you not only enlarged it to your 11x test, but you are looking at the green-white transition! 
You're using a garbage lens. This adds nothing to the conversation.
Perhaps you would like to purchase it ? It could prove to be a perfect match for your garbage reading comprehension, color vision, and logic.
Feel free to PM with an offer, but it'll cost you!
tennclay wrote
MaxBerlin wrote
I didn't want to have to point out that most of that green/red transitions in your photo are separated by some extensive purple fringing.TennClay wrote
The purple is just a bonus! I must have missed it because I just inspected it at 9x magnification!Perhaps you would like to purchase it ? It could prove to be a perfect match for your garbage reading comprehension, color vision, and logic.
Feel free to PM with an offer, but it'll cost you!
Dec 09, 2013 at 11:41 AM
p.6 #4Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.Where's your image ?
And again your not getting the larger point. It is about the transitions at the pixel level. Straight conversion, no sharpening, no smoothing.
The A7r fails at some transitions.
Oh, I am probably not going to post an image today. I make pictures, not inter-transitional pixel aggregations. And sometimes I even only zoom in to 1:2 to pixel peep, because I know it's a good image even without looking at 11:1. It's probably the thorzine causing my crazy-talking.
mco_970 wrote
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.And again your not getting the larger point. It is about the transitions at the pixel level. Straight conversion, no sharpening, no smoothing.
The A7r fails at some transitions.
Oh, I am probably not going to post an image today.
I make pictures, not inter-transitional pixel aggregations. And sometimes I even only zoom in to 1:2 to pixel peep, because I know it's a good image even without looking at 11:1. It's probably the thorzine causing my crazy-talking.Dec 09, 2013 at 11:56 AM
p.6 #5Bailing on the A7r....
mco_970 wrote:
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.
I am still laughing over this one!
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect.
I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.I am still laughing over this one!
Dec 09, 2013 at 11:59 AM
p.6 #6Bailing on the A7r....
nianys wrote:
...
Love/hate for me too, coming from the N7 that I just plain LOVE. To top that my A7 unit has a wonky WB module that spreads a nasty greenish/amber (no magenta here) on *everything* in every WB setting, but I'm getting a replacement unit because the DR and overall IQ of that thing is not easily given up. Don't take anybody's word for it, try your own. The fact that Sony does NOT provide a useful, or even decent user manual, sure doesn't help. I'm discovering little things everyday (had it a week) about the camera that make me bond...Show more →
I'm not seeing any white balance problem on my A7. In fact the Auto WB is better than I was getting out of the E-M1.
...
Love/hate for me too, coming from the N7 that I just plain LOVE. To top that my A7 unit has a wonky WB module that spreads a nasty greenish/amber (no magenta here) on *everything* in every WB setting, but I'm getting a replacement unit because the DR and overall IQ of that thing is not easily given up. Don't take anybody's word for it, try your own. The fact that Sony does NOT provide a useful, or even decent user manual, sure doesn't help. I'm discovering little things everyday (had it a week) about the camera that make me bond...Show more →
I'm not seeing any white balance problem on my A7. In fact the Auto WB is better than I was getting out of the E-M1.
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:02 PM
p.6 #7Bailing on the A7r....
This thread is deteriorating quickly, largely due to the OP. 
Rich
Rich
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:06 PM
p.6 #8Bailing on the A7r....
i haven't seen any WB issues with my A7. Of course I could always find a lot of "issues" if I put my nitpicking hat on
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:12 PM
p.6 #9Bailing on the A7r....
mco_970 wrote:
I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.Where's your image ?
And again your not getting the larger point. It is about the transitions at the pixel level. Straight conversion, no sharpening, no smoothing.
The A7r fails at some transitions.Oh, I am probably not going to post an image today. I make pictures, not inter-transitional pixel aggregations. And sometimes I even only zoom in to 1:2 to pixel peep, because I know it's a good image even without looking at 11:1. It's probably the thorzine causing my crazy-talking.
OK let's see some 'pictures'.
MaxBerlin wrote
mco_970 wrote
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.And again your not getting the larger point. It is about the transitions at the pixel level. Straight conversion, no sharpening, no smoothing.
The A7r fails at some transitions.
I make pictures, not inter-transitional pixel aggregations. And sometimes I even only zoom in to 1:2 to pixel peep, because I know it's a good image even without looking at 11:1. It's probably the thorzine causing my crazy-talking.OK let's see some 'pictures'.
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:30 PM
p.6 #10Bailing on the A7r....
michaelwatkins wrote:
I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.I am still laughing over this one!
I expected better from you. It's not about pixels. It's about the transitions.
Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.
mco_970 wrote
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.I expected better from you. It's not about pixels. It's about the transitions.
Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:34 PM
p.6 #11Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
mco_970 wrote
MaxBerlin wrote
mco_970 wrote
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.And again your not getting the larger point. It is about the transitions at the pixel level. Straight conversion, no sharpening, no smoothing.
The A7r fails at some transitions.
I make pictures, not inter-transitional pixel aggregations. And sometimes I even only zoom in to 1:2 to pixel peep, because I know it's a good image even without looking at 11:1. It's probably the thorzine causing my crazy-talking.I believe there other threads for that. it seems like you would like this one to be for posting images of colored squares.
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:36 PM
p.6 #12Bailing on the A7r....
Picture This! wrote:
i haven't seen any WB issues with my A7. Of course I could always find a lot of "issues" if I put my nitpicking hat on
When I look in the A7r image thread I see a lot of pictures of which I think that the WB is (way) off. Most of the pictures appear to be on the cold side and lack depth of colour. And if there is colour it appears oversaturated. There are hardly any pictures that give me the wow-factor unfortunately.
That's quite strange because many of the pictures in the RX1-thread do give me the wow-factor. And that's a camera of the same manufacturer, but the images appear to be quite different.
Perhaps it has to do with the use of all kind of crappy old lenses on the A7r.
In this respect this might be an interesting thread:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52666876
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 12:50 PM · View previous versions
i haven't seen any WB issues with my A7. Of course I could always find a lot of "issues" if I put my nitpicking hat on
When I look in the A7r image thread I see a lot of pictures of which I think that the WB is (way) off. Most of the pictures appear to be on the cold side and lack depth of colour. And if there is colour it appears oversaturated. There are hardly any pictures that give me the wow-factor unfortunately.
That's quite strange because many of the pictures in the RX1-thread do give me the wow-factor. And that's a camera of the same manufacturer, but the images appear to be quite different.
Perhaps it has to do with the use of all kind of crappy old lenses on the A7r.
In this respect this might be an interesting thread:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/52666876
Edited on Dec 09, 2013 at 12:50 PM · View previous versions
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:39 PM
p.6 #13Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
michaelwatkins wrote
mco_970 wrote
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.
it sounds like what u are describing is a color artifact due to the combination of the bayer filter and the lack of AA filter (I can't read Lloyd nor do I have a desire to so I'm just guessing from your description). such artifacts are bound to appear at the pixel level in an AA filter free camera.
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:40 PM
p.6 #14Bailing on the A7r....
sebboh wrote:
I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.I am still laughing over this one! I expected better from you. It's not about pixels. It's about the transitions.
Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.it sounds like what u are describing is a color artifact due to the combination of the bayer filter and the lack of AA filter (I can't read Lloyd nor do I have a desire to so I'm just guessing from your description). such artifacts are bound to appear at the pixel level in an AA filter free camera.
And why not in the D800E?
MaxBerlin wrote
michaelwatkins wrote
mco_970 wrote
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.
And why not in the D800E?
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:41 PM
p.6 #15Bailing on the A7r....
I'm still not clear on what the purported A7R "orange peel" problem is. This post of an NEX-7 showed what an expected red/green transition is supposed to look like but I haven't seen any examples of what the A7R's transition looks like.
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:48 PM
p.6 #16Bailing on the A7r....
Forget all of this, I am going back to film. I just bought my first Hasselblad, analogue not digital.
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:51 PM
p.6 #17Bailing on the A7r....
MaxBerlin wrote:
Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.
You do realize its an entirely different camera than the NEX7 ? Doesn't have the NEX7 sensor, doesn't have the NEX7 body design.
Perhaps you thought Sony was merely making a FF NEX7 where everything remained exactly the same except a larger sensor size was somehow inserted, but that is not the case.
If you think Sony somehow failed to deliver a promise (which I don't think they ever actually made), then don't buy the A7(r) because its just that, an Alpha series camera, and not a traditional NEX model.
Perhaps in time Sony will introduce a true NEX7 update that will be more to your liking
Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.
You do realize its an entirely different camera than the NEX7 ? Doesn't have the NEX7 sensor, doesn't have the NEX7 body design.
Perhaps you thought Sony was merely making a FF NEX7 where everything remained exactly the same except a larger sensor size was somehow inserted, but that is not the case.
If you think Sony somehow failed to deliver a promise (which I don't think they ever actually made), then don't buy the A7(r) because its just that, an Alpha series camera, and not a traditional NEX model.
Perhaps in time Sony will introduce a true NEX7 update that will be more to your liking
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:51 PM
p.6 #18Bailing on the A7r....
wiseguy010 wrote:
I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.I am still laughing over this one! I expected better from you. It's not about pixels. It's about the transitions.
Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.it sounds like what u are describing is a color artifact due to the combination of the bayer filter and the lack of AA filter (I can't read Lloyd nor do I have a desire to so I'm just guessing from your description). such artifacts are bound to appear at the pixel level in an AA filter free camera.And why not in the D800E?
there are lots of color artifacts that show up on the d800e, though it does seem to show less than m9, m240, and a7r, probably due to variations in the cover glass if i had to guess. i'm certainly not going to say what exactly it is without seeing it. if sony is using a lossy raw compression algorithm it's certainly possible that is what is causing this effect too. i haven't seen any troubling pictures with the a7r in terms of red/green transitions yet, so i'm disinclined to care much. also, as a general rule, i never look at any image at a magnification greater than 1:1 (and i usually only really do that if i have multiple versions of a picture and am deciding which to keep).
sebboh wrote
MaxBerlin wrote
michaelwatkins wrote
mco_970 wrote
If I only look at one pixel, it looks perfect. I guess the problem is that 11:1 is so limiting. I really need to zoom in more.Examination at the pixel level shows that the A7r has an issue that wasn't present in the NEX7.
there are lots of color artifacts that show up on the d800e, though it does seem to show less than m9, m240, and a7r, probably due to variations in the cover glass if i had to guess. i'm certainly not going to say what exactly it is without seeing it. if sony is using a lossy raw compression algorithm it's certainly possible that is what is causing this effect too. i haven't seen any troubling pictures with the a7r in terms of red/green transitions yet, so i'm disinclined to care much. also, as a general rule, i never look at any image at a magnification greater than 1:1 (and i usually only really do that if i have multiple versions of a picture and am deciding which to keep).
Dec 09, 2013 at 12:54 PM
p.6 #19Bailing on the A7r....
I find all this talk of bricks and orange peels so horribly confusing. Does this have something to do with zebras? I think I need to give up on photography.
BTW along the lines of the Sigmas mentioned earlier, Lloyd loves them despite the fact that anyone who has used one could tell you there are all sorts of weird sensor artifacts you need to contend with. If the orange peel issue is the worst the A7R has to offer then Sony have done well IMO. Maybe it's a notch below the D800E in IQ, is that such a bad place to be? Particularly in a body that is dwarfed by the D800E? We're so far into the realm of pixel peeping that I'm afraid we're missing the forest for the termites.
BTW along the lines of the Sigmas mentioned earlier, Lloyd loves them despite the fact that anyone who has used one could tell you there are all sorts of weird sensor artifacts you need to contend with. If the orange peel issue is the worst the A7R has to offer then Sony have done well IMO. Maybe it's a notch below the D800E in IQ, is that such a bad place to be? Particularly in a body that is dwarfed by the D800E? We're so far into the realm of pixel peeping that I'm afraid we're missing the forest for the termites.
Dec 09, 2013 at 01:11 PM
p.6 #20Bailing on the A7r....
I put my nose up on my calibrated monitor and I agree with Max.
Dec 09, 2013 at 01:23 PM