Archive 2013 · Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
p.5 #1Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
twoeye wrote:
Roger´s Law of New Product Introduction:
The truth has been spoken... and therefore... It Shall be !
Roger´s Law of New Product Introduction:
The truth has been spoken... and therefore... It Shall be !
Nov 20, 2013 at 07:28 AM
p.5 #2Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
I kinda took it as irony since otherwise it would be way over the top.
Nov 20, 2013 at 07:43 AM
p.5 #3Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
sebboh wrote:
..... the advantage of FF is narrow dof, cleaner images at each iso, and capturing the "look" of old lenses. also, it makes ultra fast lenses look sharper in the center than they do on aps-c....
Exactly, I think most people here are missing the point of using these legacy lenses on a FF sensor.
If I want landscapes with sharp corners I'll use my 6D with a Zeiss prime - Hell, I'll bet that even my XE-1 with the 18-55 kit lens will do better in the corners than most legacy lenses on A7!
Still, I'm looking forward to using my legacy lenses on the A7 for the DOF and FF look, not for corner sharpness!
..... the advantage of FF is narrow dof, cleaner images at each iso, and capturing the "look" of old lenses. also, it makes ultra fast lenses look sharper in the center than they do on aps-c....
Exactly, I think most people here are missing the point of using these legacy lenses on a FF sensor.
If I want landscapes with sharp corners I'll use my 6D with a Zeiss prime - Hell, I'll bet that even my XE-1 with the 18-55 kit lens will do better in the corners than most legacy lenses on A7!
Still, I'm looking forward to using my legacy lenses on the A7 for the DOF and FF look, not for corner sharpness!
Nov 20, 2013 at 07:53 AM
p.5 #4Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
here are some full resolution samples:
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f8_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f8_SonyA7-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f2_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Sigma_24mmf28_f56_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Sigma_24mmf28_f11_SonyA7_tripod by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f2_SonyA7-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f2_SonyA7-3 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7-3 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7-4 by reevedata, on Flickr
Edited on Nov 20, 2013 at 08:31 AM · View previous versions
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f8_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f8_SonyA7-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f2_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Sigma_24mmf28_f56_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Sigma_24mmf28_f11_SonyA7_tripod by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f2_SonyA7-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7 by reevedata, on Flickr
Minolta_MC_50mmf14_f2_SonyA7-3 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7-3 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200mmf4_L_at200mmf4_SonyA7-4 by reevedata, on Flickr
Edited on Nov 20, 2013 at 08:31 AM · View previous versions
Nov 20, 2013 at 08:21 AM
p.5 #5Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
That Sigma_24mmf28_f11_SonyA7_tripod image has more than good enough corner performance for me personally. If my tamron adaptall 17/3.5 performs like that, I'l be happy.
Nov 20, 2013 at 08:27 AM
p.5 #6Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
Phillip Reeve wrote:
here are some full resolution samples:
In diesem Thread würde ich gerne Testaufnahmen speziell mit der A7 diskutieren, es geht nicht darum schöne Bilder zu zeigen, sondern Tests und Bilder in voller Auflösung.
;-)
here are some full resolution samples:
In diesem Thread würde ich gerne Testaufnahmen speziell mit der A7 diskutieren, es geht nicht darum schöne Bilder zu zeigen, sondern Tests und Bilder in voller Auflösung.
;-)
Nov 20, 2013 at 08:29 AM
p.5 #7Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
rsrsrs wrote:
In diesem Thread würde ich gerne Testaufnahmen speziell mit der A7 diskutieren, es geht nicht darum schöne Bilder zu zeigen, sondern Tests und Bilder in voller Auflösung.;-)
that happens when one is posting in German and English forums at the same time
Phillip Reeve wrote
here are some full resolution samples:In diesem Thread würde ich gerne Testaufnahmen speziell mit der A7 diskutieren, es geht nicht darum schöne Bilder zu zeigen, sondern Tests und Bilder in voller Auflösung.
that happens when one is posting in German and English forums at the same time
Nov 20, 2013 at 08:31 AM
p.5 #8Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
Phillip - Thanks for posting these. If these are from near your home, you certainly live in an interesting place! Thanks again!
Steve
Steve
Nov 20, 2013 at 08:39 AM
p.5 #9Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
The Sigma 24 2.8 is a fine lens. I used one on my Sony A900 with good results. It may (very likely) turn out to be a better option than any rangefinder wide near it's focal length.
Nov 20, 2013 at 08:42 AM
p.5 #10Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
The truth is nobody knows yet. If the A7r has truly no AA filter with thinner sensor toppings, that would be effectively beneficial for wide angles, both SLR and RF. There is some inconclusive evidence that it is not the case, and that both cameras have the same sensor toppings thickness.
morpheus2891 wrote:
Interesting point. Would this apply more the A7 which still have the low pass filer or to both the A7 and A7R? If just the non-R camera, then could this mean that the A7R will be better with SLR wides? Interested to hear more thoughts on this. Currently trying to decide between the A7 and A7R so I'd love to hear from Phillip too as he has both (for example how is micro contrast on the A7R vs the A7).
morpheus2891 wrote:
Interesting point. Would this apply more the A7 which still have the low pass filer or to both the A7 and A7R? If just the non-R camera, then could this mean that the A7R will be better with SLR wides? Interested to hear more thoughts on this. Currently trying to decide between the A7 and A7R so I'd love to hear from Phillip too as he has both (for example how is micro contrast on the A7R vs the A7).
edwardkaraa wrote
I would like to add to the excellent spot on remarks above the sensor toppings factor. Sony has traditionally used quite thick material so far. The A900 was a disaster in the corners even with highly regarded lenses. It had smearing even with the 135 ZA. I have the feeling they are still using the same glass thickness. Anyhow an infinity test should be very revealing.Nov 20, 2013 at 09:39 AM
p.5 #11Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
sebboh wrote:
not sure what your surprised by? all the minolta glass and the contax g 45/2 look just like they do on film and other FF digital cameras. which ones were you expecting to do much better?Agreed. I think many have forgotten how relatively new the idea of corner to corner sharpness is, especially with lenses wider than 50mm.I think I feel the same. But lets see how the lenses perform when they are tested at longer distances.have a look see at this site. lots of modern lenses shooting a test chart at close range with corner crops.
if you guys thought you were gonna get a resolution advantage in the corners with the a7 versus the NEX-7 i'm afraid you are bound to be disappointed. this is another part of the reason modern FF lenses have grown so much in size (besides AF). the advantage of FF is narrow dof, cleaner images at each iso, and capturing the "look" of old lenses. also, it makes ultra fast lenses look sharper in the center than they do...Show more →
Spot on Derek. If I need to end up using larger and larger lenses, it kind of defeats the purpose of such a camera (for my needs anyway). I need a smallish kit with incredible lens performance - just what my Leica gives me....
Phillip Reeve wrote
briantho wrote
I don't know... I never shot film, but everyone has been talking about how the FF legacy lenses are so wasted on APS-C, and how much better they would be on a FF mirrorless. Turns out perhaps APS-C was severely underrated all along. I'm withdrawing my for sale ad for my NEX7.douglasf13 wrote
sebboh wrote
thanks phillip!carstenw wrote
I find it very suspicious that virtually nothing here looks any good before f/4. What is going on? Very weird.if you guys thought you were gonna get a resolution advantage in the corners with the a7 versus the NEX-7 i'm afraid you are bound to be disappointed. this is another part of the reason modern FF lenses have grown so much in size (besides AF). the advantage of FF is narrow dof, cleaner images at each iso, and capturing the "look" of old lenses. also, it makes ultra fast lenses look sharper in the center than they do...Show more →
Spot on Derek. If I need to end up using larger and larger lenses, it kind of defeats the purpose of such a camera (for my needs anyway). I need a smallish kit with incredible lens performance - just what my Leica gives me....
Nov 20, 2013 at 09:43 AM
p.5 #12Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
Thanks for the samples Phillip! Great to see the duck shot - who needs test charts anyway... To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.
To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.Nov 20, 2013 at 09:52 AM
p.5 #13Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
Real life pictures look pretty good.
Nov 20, 2013 at 10:17 AM
p.5 #14Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
Gary Clennan wrote:
Thanks for the samples Phillip! Great to see the duck shot - who needs test charts anyway...
To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.+1 for the cat shot
Nov 20, 2013 at 10:20 AM
p.5 #15Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
Thanks for these Phillip, time to pick up a minolta 35-70, didn't realize how cheap they are
Nov 20, 2013 at 10:29 AM
p.5 #16Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
Tariq Gibran wrote:
you should remember that the corner crop is a real corner crop from the ~100x100 pixels in the very corner of the frame (please correct me if i'm wrong about this phillip) on a very near test chart. many lenses especially wide angles are never sharp there. i believe you have complained on occasion about your ZF 50/2 MP needing to be stopped down to f/8 or more to get good extreme corners. not sure why you expected great results from a $300 kit zoom either? 4 of the lenses are ones they i own and like, none of those surprise me in this test (well i thought the MC 50/1.4 would be a little worse in the corners at f/1.4 actually).
have you tried a test like this with your favorite lenses on your d800? i suspect if you do you'll find your ZF 50/1.4 and R 35 lux do worse than a few of these lenses even after you downsample to 24mp.I will just note that I performed a similar test like this to check for de-centering on my RX1. Very happy with the results even in the extreme corners.
me too, even at f/2.
phillip – any thoughts on how the files out of the a7 compare to what you saw with your brief time with the a7r? how do you feel about the colors?
also, that 80-200L looks pretty nice!
sebboh wrote
carstenw wrote
I was expecting them to clear up faster in general, and especially the performance of the kit zoom is highly disappointing. The results of most of these tests are so bad that I wouldn't bother shooting with these lenses at all. What bothers me the most is that not a single of these lenses is great, or even uniformly good. It makes me wonder about the sensor toppings and the strength of the A7R as an alt platform. More results are needed with stronger lenses, but for now I have lowered my expectations. I do hope the A7 is better.have you tried a test like this with your favorite lenses on your d800? i suspect if you do you'll find your ZF 50/1.4 and R 35 lux do worse than a few of these lenses even after you downsample to 24mp.
me too, even at f/2.
phillip – any thoughts on how the files out of the a7 compare to what you saw with your brief time with the a7r? how do you feel about the colors?
also, that 80-200L looks pretty nice!
Nov 20, 2013 at 10:48 AM
p.5 #17Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
edwardkaraa wrote:
To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.+1 for the cat shot
+2
Gary Clennan wrote
Thanks for the samples Phillip! Great to see the duck shot - who needs test charts anyway... To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.+2
Nov 20, 2013 at 10:49 AM
p.5 #18Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
sebboh wrote:
you should remember that the corner crop is a real corner crop from the ~100x100 pixels in the very corner of the frame (please correct me if i'm wrong about this phillip) on a very near test chart. many lenses especially wide angles are never sharp there. i believe you have complained on occasion about your ZF 50/2 MP needing to be stopped down to f/8 or more to get good extreme corners. not sure why you expected great results from a $300 kit zoom either? 4 of the lenses are ones they i own and like, none of those surprise me in this test (well i thought the MC 50/1.4 would be a little worse in the corners at f/1.4 actually).
have you tried a test like this with your favorite lenses on your d800? i suspect if you do you'll find your ZF 50/1.4 and R 35 lux do worse than a few of these lenses even after you downsample to 24mp.I will just note that I performed a similar test like this to check for de-centering on my RX1. Very happy with the results even in the extreme corners.me too, even at f/2.
phillip – any thoughts on how the files out of the a7 compare to what you saw with your brief time with the a7r? how do you feel about the colors?
also, that 80-200L looks pretty nice!
When i had the A7r I shot jpgs and all I photographed was my test target, so no idea.
Compared to the Nex-6 I think I nooticed the better dynamic range and the colors are a bit diifferent but not by much.
The 80-200 L is a really nice lens with better performance than my Minolta 135/2.8 oder 200/4.
I don't own a cat :-(. Can i pay in benches? And how many benches equal one cat?
Tariq Gibran wrote
sebboh wrote
carstenw wrote
I was expecting them to clear up faster in general, and especially the performance of the kit zoom is highly disappointing. The results of most of these tests are so bad that I wouldn't bother shooting with these lenses at all. What bothers me the most is that not a single of these lenses is great, or even uniformly good. It makes me wonder about the sensor toppings and the strength of the A7R as an alt platform. More results are needed with stronger lenses, but for now I have lowered my expectations. I do hope the A7 is better.have you tried a test like this with your favorite lenses on your d800? i suspect if you do you'll find your ZF 50/1.4 and R 35 lux do worse than a few of these lenses even after you downsample to 24mp.
phillip – any thoughts on how the files out of the a7 compare to what you saw with your brief time with the a7r? how do you feel about the colors?
also, that 80-200L looks pretty nice!
When i had the A7r I shot jpgs and all I photographed was my test target, so no idea.
Compared to the Nex-6 I think I nooticed the better dynamic range and the colors are a bit diifferent but not by much.
The 80-200 L is a really nice lens with better performance than my Minolta 135/2.8 oder 200/4.
I don't own a cat :-(. Can i pay in benches? And how many benches equal one cat?
Nov 20, 2013 at 10:55 AM
p.5 #19Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
edwardkaraa wrote:
To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.+1 for the cat shot
I'll take a cat shot over a photo of someone's kid any day. More fine detail to measure acuity, plus a much higher probability of the subject being attractive
Gary Clennan wrote
Thanks for the samples Phillip! Great to see the duck shot - who needs test charts anyway... To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.I'll take a cat shot over a photo of someone's kid any day. More fine detail to measure acuity, plus a much higher probability of the subject being attractive
Nov 20, 2013 at 10:59 AM
p.5 #20Sony A7 - first impressions and some tests
snapsy wrote:
To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.+1 for the cat shot I'll take a cat shot over a photo of someone's kid any day. More fine detail to measure acuity, plus a much higher probability of the subject being attractive
a lynx is a cat, isn't it?
all shot at f/4 despite the labeling
Canon_FD_80200f28L_at200mmf8 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200f28L_at200mmf8-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200f28L_at200mmf8-3 by reevedata, on Flickr
edwardkaraa wrote
Gary Clennan wrote
Thanks for the samples Phillip! Great to see the duck shot - who needs test charts anyway... To complete the testing, you really should include a cat shot though.a lynx is a cat, isn't it?
all shot at f/4 despite the labeling
Canon_FD_80200f28L_at200mmf8 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200f28L_at200mmf8-2 by reevedata, on Flickr
Canon_FD_80200f28L_at200mmf8-3 by reevedata, on Flickr
Nov 20, 2013 at 11:17 AM