p.64 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
mttran wrote:
There is no question which one to have if there was a choice between Standard/EXMOR comparable sensors from any canon models. Why not having all options on the table....don't take away anything for less...more is better, don't you think. Sometime I don't understand "AF/DR" arguments at all.
But that is fantasy land. If we could have anything we wanted, you'd take features from all over the place. Each brand has pluses and minuses when it comes to features.
And more isn't better, better is better. Sometimes less is better
p.64 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jctriguy wrote:
But that is fantasy land. If we could have anything we wanted, you'd take features from all over the place. Each brand has pluses and minuses when it comes to features.
And more isn't better, better is better. Sometimes less is better
That is why I stay with older canon models for AF and temporary solution A7r for better IQ. So best (AF and IQ) for less
p.64 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Not really, I had a play with the imaging resource raws from the A7r, comparing to my 5D3, at iso 1600 and 6400 it was noisier but when you downrez to 5D3 file dimensions, the noise is practically exactly the same, I prefer the look of the Sony's noise to be honest. Their colour and facial tonality is far better IMO in general.
p.64 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Lasse Eriksson wrote:
This will really upset a few people in this thread
I just tell what I experienced, I believe the data from those scientific testing from the website because data never lie, however I also believe those scientific testing can never cover all the aspects of a machine in real life application.
p.64 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Beni wrote:
Not really, I had a play with the imaging resource raws from the A7r, comparing to my 5D3, at iso 1600 and 6400 it was noisier but when you downrez to 5D3 file dimensions, the noise is practically exactly the same, I prefer the look of the Sony's noise to be honest. Their colour and facial tonality is far better IMO in general.
Sure the chroma noise from the A7r is much lesser and nicer.
p.64 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Beni wrote:
Not really, I had a play with the imaging resource raws from the A7r, comparing to my 5D3, at iso 1600 and 6400 it was noisier but when you downrez to 5D3 file dimensions, the noise is practically exactly the same, I prefer the look of the Sony's noise to be honest. Their colour and facial tonality is far better IMO in general.
This is the thing people have always forgetten about anytime higher megapixel sensors have come along. Looking at each individual file at 100% doesn't really mean that much. It's what the files would look like at the comparative size you would print them at. The pixel dimensions are different, so to get an accurate understanding of the practical results you need to scale the images to a common dimension.
The other thing to recall is the disadvantage of Canon sensors to date hasn't been noise per se, but fixed pattern noise (aka banding) which is much more objectionable.
p.64 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
artd wrote:
This is the thing people have always forgetten about anytime higher megapixel sensors have come along. Looking at each individual file at 100% doesn't really mean that much. It's what the files would look like at the comparative size you would print them at. The pixel dimensions are different, so to get an accurate understanding of the practical results you need to scale the images to a common dimension.
The other thing to recall is the disadvantage of Canon sensors to date hasn't been noise per se, but fixed pattern noise (aka banding) which is much more objectionable.
Yes and no. What's the point of a high MP camera if you are still making the same sized prints? I want the 24 x 16 print from the Sony to look as good as the 12 x 18 from the Canon, I don't want to be making the same sized print.
p.64 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes and no. What's the point of a high MP camera if you are still making the same sized prints? I want the 24 x 16 print from the Sony to look as good as the 12 x 18 from the Canon, I don't want to be making the same sized print.
The point is that you can always downsample a higher megapixel file to get noise levels comparable to a lower megapixel file, but you cannot upsample a lower megapixel file to get resolution comparable to a higher megapixel file.
p.64 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
mttran wrote:
No such thing is fantasy camera. Pre-production A7R 70-200 f2.8 iso 6400 JPGs by atdigit, Flickr
Hi Michael,
Frankly, I don't like the rendered colors that much... It is a tad too yellowish for my taste and the last one is a tad greenish yellow to my eyes but I realize that color preferences do vary and we are not going after the color rendition in PP. And the eyelashes are a tad soft for my taste coming from a 36MP sensor . No offense to the photographer but the point I am trying to make is, are there actually images taken with the A7r that you don't like or do you like them all ?
p.64 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes and no. What's the point of a high MP camera if you are still making the same sized prints? I want the 24 x 16 print from the Sony to look as good as the 12 x 18 from the Canon, I don't want to be making the same sized print.
artd wrote:
The point is that you can always downsample a higher megapixel file to get noise levels comparable to a lower megapixel file, but you cannot upsample a lower megapixel file to get resolution comparable to a higher megapixel file.
Another point is that you can't take the high megapixel A7R photos at 12 frames per second.
Metaphorically speaking, "there is no spoon". There is no single, best camera for all applications. I might buy an A7R, but I won't bring it on a sports shoot, unless I figure there will be some "scenic" opportunities along the way.
P.S. in the true spirit of The Matrix, I should have said "literally speaking"...
p.64 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes and no. What's the point of a high MP camera if you are still making the same sized prints? I want the 24 x 16 print from the Sony to look as good as the 12 x 18 from the Canon, I don't want to be making the same sized print.
Why? When res matters most you print it larger or crop it harder. If lighting is poor and noise matters more you can always equalize the higher MP camera and print the same smaller size (and with tighter 'grain' it might actually look better! same because of less debayer artifacts they are less apparent at smaller scale or blended away). The point is you can have the same (or better) noise or more MP if you value that more, no way to lose.
p.64 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jcolwell wrote:
Another point is that you can't take the high megapixel A7R photos at 12 frames per second.
And no one implied that you could. It's been pretty well understood all along that the A7r is not the best tool for every job. No one is arguing that a 1DX doesn't have value in that regard. Just that as far as noise levels go with the A7r, I don't think it's anything worth being concerned about. At least not from what I've seen.
p.64 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
artd wrote:
The point is that you can always downsample a higher megapixel file to get noise levels comparable to a lower megapixel file, but you cannot upsample a lower megapixel file to get resolution comparable to a higher megapixel file.
Yes I'm very well aware of that, but it's a cop out and doesn't address the issue I raised. Again, you guys seem to only talk about using these cameras at base ISO and after that you just resample. If I want a large print at high ISO from the A7R in your world I make it the same size as one I took with 5D III. Surely if I make a larger print from the Sony, even if it's nosier I'm in general, looking at it from further away and won't notice the noise as much anyway.
p.64 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Yes I'm very well aware of that, but it's a cop out and doesn't address the issue I raised. Again, you guys seem to only talk about using these cameras at base ISO and after that you just resample. If I want a large print at high ISO from the A7R in your world I make it the same size as one I took with 5D III. Surely if I make a larger print from the Sony, even if it's nosier I'm in general, looking at it from further away and won't notice the noise as much anyway.
How is it a cop out? If you think a 16x24 image will look better coming from a 22mp sensor than a 36mp sensor because there is a slightly smaller amount of noise, you can try and do that, but I honestly don't think that's likely to be the case. If you think a high ISO 16x24 image won't look as good from a 36mp as a 12x18 image from an 22mp sensor, that becomes a more subjective judgement. But I can tell you that an image printed from the 36mp sensor will never look worse than an image from the 22mp sensor if both are printed at the same size.
So I guess I'm not really sure what the issue is If you want to print big, you will always be better off with more megapixels, and in a worst case scenario of extremely high ISO you will never be worse off than you would be if you had a lower megapixel sensor.
p.64 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
artd wrote:
So I guess I'm not really sure what the issue is If you want to print big, you will always be better off with more megapixels, and in a worst case scenario of extremely high ISO you will never be worse off than you would be if you had a lower megapixel sensor.
Never? Wouldn't that depend on the high ISO performance of the two camera's?
?
If you want to print big, you will always be better off with more megapixels, and in a worst case scenario of extremely high ISO you will never be worse off than you would be if you had a lower megapixel sensor.