p.47 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
KiboOst wrote:
+1000
astonishing to see how a leader in sensor tech a few years ago can now be so behind ...
Maybe they spread themselves too thin? It is obvious Canon has mostly concentrated on developing video features and video products (1DC, C100/C300/C500 series and Lenses for cinema).
But:
Canon has however been busy updating their EF lens line, don't forget the 17 TS-E (no answer from Nikon), the 24 TS-E II (better than the Nikon counterpart), the 24-70 2.8L II (better than the Nikon equivalent), three new IS primes, several EF-S lenses, the 200-400 f4L IS w/ converter (I know, too $$$ compared to the converter-less Nikon counterpart), upgrades to v II of all their Supertelephotos (except the 800L) among many others. I think we all can agree that the Canon EOS EF lens line is superb and offers some unique alternatives.
All that glass is eagerly waiting for better sensors!
p.47 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Get used to the video being a priority for Canon. Cinema is a huge area for Canon and they are going to be investing heavily in video. I have no idea whether this means anything for the stills cameras, but I do expect far more advanced functionality on DSLR's and video to become more important on them. There's a lot of profitability in video and this is a good thing for the R&D budget overall.
Still I find it hilarious that Canon gets trashed for taking interest in video, yet Sony has always had a large presence in video and Cinema and all their models are video rich. Sony no doubt would get praise for the exact same thing Canon gets hammered for.
p.47 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I suppose it's just a matter of perspective.
While most contributors to the FM and DPR forums are stills enthusiasts and professional photographers, the reality is there is a paradigm shift underway in electronic imaging. The new imaging tsunami is thanks to video images and powerful new micro-processors (and the programming that goes with it). I'm sure Canon is not resting on its laurels in these areas.
Ultimately, I expect photography as we know it to be as different from our stills of today as today's stills are compared to the Film Era ending about a decade ago. Within a few years we should see all sorts of computational magic that can produce high MP and DR off smaller and more limited sensors through a "mash-up" of high speed electronically captured images.
When I was exposed to the 1DC and its capability to pull 8MP images right off the video, I knew where things were going! Those stills were very impressive, even though coming from a smaller-than-FF "super 35mm" cropped sensor. There was immediate criticism that it would be too hard to edit vast amounts of video to pull video stills, but that complaining was just the resistance of those initially disinclined to the blasphemous video capture with stills intent. In reality, it wasn't that hard (I remembered the scenes and subjects that "clicked"), but bigger shoots might require an assistant for notes and continuity, just like filming (cause that's exactly what it is!).
So, I wouldn't be too hard on Canon. It's obvious they are busy and going for the big brass ring, not the trinkets. It might all be a slight inconvenience to some photographers, but any paradigm shift is. My hope is that it coalesces in the next year or two -- I'm not immune to wanting a higher MP/DR body right now.
As we say, we'll just have to hold tight and see what happens.
Meanwhile, it seems to me that we have plenty of great existing Canon product to keep us all busy. And the Sony a7R is catering to the pent-up desire for using Canon lenses to counter the imaging from the D800e. Good for Sony!
p.47 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Right on Gunzorro!
RED camera has also been pushing their camera as a stills camera as well. It has been used for motion covers and magazine covers for the past few years although I don't think it will be adopted as a main camera by much photographers anytime soon. It has a VERY nice sensor, image quality is superb. It has a few key downsides for stills like a low flash sync speed (I think it is 1/60 max) and obviously the 2:1 aspect ratio is way to wide for a lot of situations in still photography but like you said, they are hinting at the future.
Regarding Canon it is obvious Olympus/Panasonic/Fuji and Sony have picked up the slack in regards to digital cameras for stills, thanks in part to Canon lagging behind in releasing innovative cameras for stills.
Sony has been impressive as of late. I really did not care for their alpha line and their NEX line was good (the NEX 7 was/is a standout) but not great and the lenses were/are weak. But the A7 and A7R changed the game completely. The RX10 is also a surprise and a superb camera.
p.47 #5 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Pixel Perfect wrote:
Get used to the video being a priority for Canon. Cinema is a huge area for Canon and they are going to be investing heavily in video. I have no idea whether this means anything for the stills cameras, but I do expect far more advanced functionality on DSLR's and video to become more important on them. There's a lot of profitability in video and this is a good thing for the R&D budget overall.
Still I find it hilarious that Canon gets trashed for taking interest in video, yet Sony has always had a large presence in video and Cinema and all their models are video rich. Sony no doubt would get praise for the exact same thing Canon gets hammered for....Show more →
Isn't the big complaint that Canon was the first to "junk up our beautiful still cameras with video"? Sony was late to that party. They were still cranking out next-generation Minoltas. The a850 and 900 didn't even have live view. Video's standard now, and Sony is certainly making a strong play for that audience with their accessories and hybrid AF on the a99, but it really wasn't until the introduction of the SLTs and NEXs that Sony started making anything that resembled the sort of camera you would expect from an electronics giant with a long history in video.
I do think you're right. Had Sony been first to market with a FF HD-capable DSLR, they would've gotten praise, much of it from the same people who praised the 5DII. But they would've been forgotten quickly once Canon rolled out a photo of the 5DII in front of all of the EF lenses and reminded everyone that the third-party market caters to them. And Canon would've still been subjected to all the derision. That's the price of being in first. You have the largest audience, so you have the largest audience to disappoint.
p.47 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Ok, just played a bit with some A7R raws and LightRoom 5.3RC. WOW !!! Now we can see how far Canon sensors are !
Resolution is just jaw dropping ! Not talking about mps, but per pixel sharpness. Require far less sharpening, for far much details, all this at 100% crop on a 7300x5000 images ! Buuuh ... even not funny for Canon files :/
DR is really better than anything from Canon, indeed push shadows without horrible noise, banding etc ...
Have some moire on some structure, but local adjustment with moire slider remove it in Lr without loss in details and resolution (impressed there).
Really, working on such raws files doesn't do any favor for Canon ... I sincerely hope they have something competing soon. Actually Canon is amazing lenses line-up, both for choice and performances, with much sub-par sensors, both regarding resolution and DR.
If Canon doesn't announce something in the coming weeks (or days :/), A7R should be mine ...
From informations gathered on other forums :
A7r + metabones SmartIII : Autofocus is working, IS working, Exif value of the lens recorded in the files.
Canon EF 20mm f2.8 : Good AF
Canon EF 85mm f1.2L : AF is working but a bit slow
Canon EF 135mm f2L : AF works ok
Canon EF 17-40mm f4L : AF working fine
p.47 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
The views and opinions expressed in this post are soley those of the original poster. These views and opinions do not necessarily represent those of jctriguy.
p.47 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
KiboOst wrote:
If Canon doesn't announce something in the coming weeks (or days :/), A7R should be mine ...
Why wait? Order it now and enjoy the IQ. I doubt you will see any announcement from Canon until Spring 2014 at the earliest and then with a release in the Fall/Winter.
This is one of the prime reasons why Canon is not in a rush to release a new sensor. Their user base is afraid that after they buy something else Canon will release their own new tech.
p.47 #9 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
ggreene, it isn't available at my usual supplier here in europe ;-) So, while not having it anyway, I'm waiting availability to order it.
And I must say I would still prefer a Canon body, for mirror (low battery usage, OVF), AF, same canon ergonomic and native lenses support. But I think it will be really hard for Caon to match such IQ.
p.47 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
KiboOst wrote:
And I must say I would still prefer a Canon body, for mirror (low battery usage, OVF), AF, same canon ergonomic and native lenses support.
Exactly. Even the people that want such IQ are reticent to buy into other options with a superior sensor. Is there any wonder why Canon does not feel any pressure.
p.47 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
The budget, that I have saved from not buying canon bodies last couple years, is enough to get couple pro bodies from them in their next releases. Why not enjoying the IQ that is available now then trade A7(r) in whenever canon has something more comparable. This way you don't have to wait forever. The A7(r) shall be top in resale value for awhile since they can support multiple systems
p.47 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
ggreene wrote:
Exactly. Even the people that want such IQ are reticent to buy into other options with a superior sensor. Is there any wonder why Canon does not feel any pressure.
Hmm. I wonder. How do we know they aren't feeling pressue? A smart company I think would always be concerned about the competition having more innovative products. I would hope they had started feeling the pressure back when Sony developed the Exmor. R&D takes time after all, and while being the leader in market share gives you a little leeway in response time, you can't wait forever.
The A7r won't sink their ship. But it does put another hole in their boat
p.47 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
ggreene wrote:
Exactly. Even the people that want such IQ are reticent to buy into other options with a superior sensor. Is there any wonder why Canon does not feel any pressure.
As long as the A7R shows the anticipated IQ performance from RAW files for top Canon and Zeiss primes, I'm in! Doesn't mean I'm jumping ship, either.
p.47 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
artd wrote:
Hmm. I wonder. How do we know they aren't feeling pressue? A smart company I think would always be concerned about the competition having more innovative products. I would hope they had started feeling the pressure back when Sony developed the Exmor. R&D takes time after all, and while being the leader in market share gives you a little leeway in response time, you can't wait forever.
The A7r won't sink their ship. But it does put another hole in their boat
+1, he needs to think out of the box more often. Potential canon FF alternate lenses shooters now have better A7(r) option, same thing for potential 3rd parties FF conversion shooters. Every lot counts in marketing
p.47 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
artd wrote:
Hmm. I wonder. How do we know they aren't feeling pressue? A smart company I think would always be concerned about the competition having more innovative products. I would hope they had started feeling the pressure back when Sony developed the Exmor. R&D takes time after all, and while being the leader in market share gives you a little leeway in response time, you can't wait forever.
The A7r won't sink their ship. But it does put another hole in their boat
As you said R+D takes time. I'm sure they are concerned but why rush a new sensor out with potential glitches when you have no market pressure to do so? They are still advancing in parallel with the introduction of updated lenses with IQ ready for higher MP sensors.
p.47 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
7yrs in advance, something really goofy here. They should be the first to steal the mirror less market share. They are now loosing the flexibility of EOS mount to someone else...and deeper trouble that they don't have any comparable sensor(s) to compete in those format. If not a pressure then what is
C'mon guys be a shooter and let canon handle their things...I am tired of your bs. All is about tools...you take whatever best for you and share your experiences with others, why worry so much what others own or want ...Canon won't pay you even a dime for all your troubles. Don't let tool MFG dominates your thinking...it's bad.
Best is to think out of the box more often before sharing your thinking . Some of you really in la la land, go kiss your MOM if you have nothing else to do
p.47 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
mttran wrote:
7yrs in advance, something really goofy here. They should be the first to steal the mirror less market share. They are now loosing the flexibility of EOS mount to someone else...and deeper trouble that they don't have any comparable sensor(s) to compete in those format. If not a pressure then what is
They won't have lost anything, and no one is stealing their EOS mount benefit. People will get an A7r if that suits them, but they will virtually all keep the Canon lenses and probably at least one body. When Canon releases a new camera, they will probably buy the Canon. The small fraction of users that think the A7r is the next big thing in cameras with only be a drop in the bucket and will mostly come fully back to Canon in the future.
But for now, I'd love to see more pics from users with adapted EF lenses
p.47 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
ggreene wrote:
As you said R+D takes time. I'm sure they are concerned but why rush a new sensor out with potential glitches when you have no market pressure to do so? They are still advancing in parallel with the introduction of updated lenses with IQ ready for higher MP sensors.
Not saying they should rush something. Just that if they are smart, they should already have dedicated the resources to work on it. Because the market pressure is there...it just takes a little while to catch up.
