p.20 #1 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
"And very very few lenses from Canon are best of it's class when you take away the tele lenses"
Well, if you are using Zeiss primes you have a point. But people have been saying for years that Canon's Mk2 lens program was intended to revamp old lenses for the long predicted high resolution Canon body (which still hasn't arrived I know). So surely there will be lots of modern Canon glass that can cope with these Sonys?
"So why not go all the way and upgrade both sensor and lenses to best in it's class"
Money! I'd like to keep my legacy Nikon and Canon glass because my fast wide and PC lens would cost a fortune to replace! And as far as I know there are no native Sony mount equivalents to either lens anyway.
Oct 27, 2013 at 01:59 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.20 #2 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
David Baldwin wrote:
"And very very few lenses from Canon are best of it's class when you take away the tele lenses"
Well, if you are using Zeiss primes you have a point. But people have been saying for years that Canon's Mk2 lens program was intended to revamp old lenses for the long predicted high resolution Canon body (which still hasn't arrived I know). So surely there will be lots of modern Canon glass that can cope with these Sonys?
"So why not go all the way and upgrade both sensor and lenses to best in it's class"
Money! I'd like to keep my legacy Nikon and Canon glass because my fast wide and PC lens would cost a fortune to replace! And as far as I know there are no native Sony mount equivalents to either lens anyway....Show more →
I agree that those mkII lenses are very good. But there is a big difference in being very good and being "best-of-class" like he wrote in the post that I replied to.
And a lot of people that say they gonna change from Canon bodies to this new Sony don't use the mkII. Many use the cheap zoom lenses. Or cheap Canon prime lenses that are not even best-of-class when it comes to the different Canon lenses in that focal range.
p.20 #3 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Lars Johnsson wrote:
You can't put aside the inability to AF (or having good/fast AF). And even attach your lenses without buying converters.
And very very few lenses from Canon are best of it's class when you take away the tele lenses which are not good with adapters and no AF. So why not go all the way and upgrade both sensor and lenses to best in it's class
It's fun to read all these threads about the new Sony cameras. And about all the people that will change from their Canon body to these new cameras. Because their Canon sensor is not good enough. And then you see what lenses the use and what lenses they gonna adapt to their new camera.
(I'm probably buying the A7R) And it's probably a great thing as you wrote. But except from a few unique Canon lenses like the TS-E very very few are best-of-class when you take away the long tele lenses. I belive this new camera will be much better for the people that already use MF lenses....Show more →
Well the 24-70 II covers a pretty key range and that is best in class. So is the 70-200 f/2.8 II and the 70-200 f/4 IS and the 70-300L and, as you mention, the 24 T&S II and the 17 T&S. The macros 100L holds it's own. That covers quite a lot there.
Plus the slight problem that if you swap to all native A7R lenses then what the heck do you use on your 5D3 or whatnot If we are going to switch all our lenses too maybe the Nikon world is a safer bet than going Sony I think.
Oct 27, 2013 at 02:36 AM
Lars Johnsson Offline • • • • • • • Upload & Sell: Off
p.20 #4 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
skibum5 wrote:
Well the 24-70 II covers a pretty key range and that is best in class. So is the 70-200 f/2.8 II and the 70-200 f/4 IS and the 70-300L and, as you mention, the 24 T&S II and the 17 T&S. The macros 100L holds it's own. That covers quite a lot there.
Plus the slight problem that if you swap to all native A7R lenses then what the heck do you use on your 5D3 or whatnot If we are going to switch all our lenses too maybe the Nikon world is a safer bet than going Sony I think.
I don't agree that all those lenses are bast in their class. And a lot of those are tele lenses (I wrote with the exception of Tele lenses) Who likes to use long tele lenses without any good AF and with adapters. Even you have made about 100 posts about your 70-300 and how important it was to get good AF with that lens and TC Suddenly it doesn't matter anymore or?
You can also swap to any lens when using converter, it doesn't have to be a native A7R lens. And if you like to keep your Canon mount for the future. There are still a lot of the best lenses you can find that have Canon mount but are made from other brands. Like Voigtländer and Zeiss as an example. For instance make those brands better macro lenses than your 100L that you belive is best in it's class
p.20 #6 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
The funny thing is that I think my best "Canon" lenses aren't from Canon (not saying Canon doesn't have some real gems though.) Really looking forward to trying my Zeiss 15, 21, Sigma 35, and CV 125mm on the a7R. I guess we'll see how good the adapter is in terms of tolerances (and how good these lenses are pushed to 36 MP.) All but one of these are MF, as a landscape shooter I don't really care about the autofocus capability the Metabones adapter provides. For my "real" Canon lenses, it will just be icing if it works somewhat decently.
p.20 #7 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
My "best" lenses are from Canon, Zeiss and Mamiya 645. If I go to an A7R, it'll be for my Canon TS-E, Zeiss, and Mamiya/Mirex T-S lenses. I won't be selling my Canon DSLR and fast EF lenses...
p.20 #8 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Regarding the posts above "Best of the class lenses": I am convinced they are not really necessary to take fantastic photos (not talking of very long tele lenses now!). It is true on the other hand that cheaper lenses will be out-resolved by the Exmor sensor which is built into Sony's A7 models. But often it is omitted that this sensor has another huge gain: dynamic range (DR). So even if your lens is not optimized to be used with this sensor resolution-wise, you will still gain better DR control which is important especially for landscape photography.
But I also agree that the adapter to mount EF lenses onto the E-mount seems steeply overpriced to me. Demand will be high for this adapter, so likely this price won't come down soon.
p.20 #9 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
retrofocus wrote:
But I also agree that the adapter to mount EF lenses onto the E-mount seems steeply overpriced to me. Demand will be high for this adapter, so likely this price won't come down soon.
I suspect there will eventually be other adapters with similar capability at lower prices, though quality may be an issue.
p.20 #10 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
No arguments there. The DR jump is as important for me (or maybe moreso) than the resolution gain. But I'll take both... :-)
Fantastic photos as you note aren't directly equated to the equipment used, they are loosely coupled. I've seen pretty incredible photos from the gamut of equipment (cheap to expensive.) Talent, skill, timing, etc can have a far greater impact on quality than equipment alone.
-Tim
retrofocus wrote:
Regarding the posts above "Best of the class lenses": I am convinced they are not really necessary to take fantastic photos (not talking of very long tele lenses now!). It is true on the other hand that cheaper lenses will be out-resolved by the Exmor sensor which is built into Sony's A7 models. But often it is omitted that this sensor has another huge gain: dynamic range (DR). So even if your lens is not optimized to be used with this sensor resolution-wise, you will still gain better DR control which is important especially for landscape photography.
But I also agree that the adapter to mount EF lenses onto the E-mount seems steeply overpriced to me. Demand will be high for this adapter, so likely this price won't come down soon....Show more →
p.20 #11 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
EB-1 wrote:
I suspect there will eventually be other adapters with similar capability at lower prices, though quality may be an issue.
EBH
Yes, for this kind of price tag it would be very tempting for Asian manufacturers to copy the design for less than half the price. As you said, quality might be an issue here and things like AF performance for example. I am sure we will see more designs in the near future and we will have more reviews and tests of lens/adapter performances.
p.20 #12 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I bet there will be a boon in the adapter market as you guys note. There's already another option, not as mature as the Metabones (and I'm not sure it allows for full frame use.)
retrofocus wrote:
Yes, for this kind of price tag it would be very tempting for Asian manufacturers to copy the design for less than half the price. As you said, quality might be an issue here and things like AF performance for example. I am sure we will see more designs in the near future and we will have more reviews and tests of lens/adapter performances.
p.20 #13 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jamesmorophoto wrote:
hopefully canon takes note of threads like these and gives you guys a FF body w/ a high res sensor...
this thread is kind of sad: lots of people invested in canon glass that are so dissatisfied w/ current canon offerings that they're willing to go w/ an entirely new brand as long as they can use their lenses...
It would be nice if one could find a single brand of bodies/lenses that meets all needs, but that is not the case for many people, including me. Near home I can handle Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. together but it is more problematic on travel and in the field. The ability to use a mixture of my different lenses (Canon, Nikon, CZ, etc.) on a single body is intriguing. The camera's diminutive size and light weight are appealing to many as well.
p.20 #14 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
My guess is that Canon will be the next manufacturer to come out with a mirrorless FF camera (and/or maybe a FF SL1). I could see them throwing a 6D sensor in an EOS M type body....just to have something. There was some expectation that an M successor would be announced. Maybe they're working on both a M2 APS-C and MF (no pun intended) FF option.
p.20 #15 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
retrofocus wrote:
But I also agree that the adapter to mount EF lenses onto the E-mount seems steeply overpriced to me. Demand will be high for this adapter, so likely this price won't come down soon.
EB-1 wrote:
I suspect there will eventually be other adapters with similar capability at lower prices, though quality may be an issue.
EBH
retrofocus wrote:
Yes, for this kind of price tag it would be very tempting for Asian manufacturers to copy the design for less than half the price. As you said, quality might be an issue here and things like AF performance for example. I am sure we will see more designs in the near future and we will have more reviews and tests of lens/adapter performances.
tsdevine wrote:
I bet there will be a boon in the adapter market as you guys note. There's already another option, not as mature as the Metabones (and I'm not sure it allows for full frame use.)
p.20 #16 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
tsdevine wrote:
My guess is that Canon will be the next manufacturer to come out with a mirrorless FF camera (and/or maybe a FF SL1). I could see them throwing a 6D sensor in an EOS M type body....just to have something. There was some expectation that an M successor would be announced. Maybe they're working on both a M2 APS-C and MF (no pun intended) FF option.
-Tim
If they are working on a full frame SL1 or EOS M right now as we speak, it will surely arrive with their ancient old sensor tech, which I have zero interest in.
I highly doubt that Canon will debut their new sensor tech (if something like that even exists yet) in anything but a top dollar 1D body.
But who knows. Maybe Canon will actually try to delight us this time?
p.20 #17 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
Lars Johnsson wrote:
You can't put aside the inability to AF (or having good/fast AF). And even attach your lenses without buying converters.
And very very few lenses from Canon are best of it's class when you take away the tele lenses which are not good with adapters and no AF. So why not go all the way and upgrade both sensor and lenses to best in it's class
(I'm probably buying the A7R) And it's probably a great thing as you wrote. But except from a few unique Canon lenses like the TS-E very very few are best-of-class when you take away the long tele lenses. I belive this new camera will be much better for the people that already use MF lenses....Show more →
Canon's TSEs by themselves are enough reason to own an A7r. I intend to get this camera specifically for use with those lenses and keep a Canon body as back up body for when I need to have faster autofocus. The beauty is we don't have to choose one or the other. Just because you buy an A7r doesn't mean you need to throw away your existing Canon system.
This is not upgrade via replacement. It's upgrade via supplement
p.20 #18 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
I can't see Canon matching the Sony A7r features at this price point anytime soon. If all checks out for DR and resolution with the adapter and EF and Zeiss ZE lenses then I'm in. Most landscapes I'm using manual focus with live view anyway, so AF speed is of less concern.
p.20 #19 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
jamesmorophoto wrote:
hopefully canon takes note of threads like these and gives you guys a FF body w/ a high res sensor...
this thread is kind of sad: lots of people invested in canon glass that are so dissatisfied w/ current canon offerings that they're willing to go w/ an entirely new brand as long as they can use their lenses...
Why do you find this sad. We've been using 3rd party lenses on Canon bodies for years. Now we have the ability to use a 3rd party body with our Canon lens. I think this is something to rejoice over rather than thinking it is sad.
p.20 #20 · Sony A7 and A7r Full Frame with Canon Lenses
chez wrote:
Why do you find this sad. We've been using 3rd party lenses on Canon bodies for years. Now we have the ability to use a 3rd party body with our Canon lens. I think this is something to rejoice over rather than thinking it is sad.
I could be wrong, but I think he more meant sad that Canon sat on the hill and did nothing in terms of sensors and let it come to the point where the ones who were so far ahead for this sort of sensor are now so far behind. Sad that we are forced to joyously applaud the arrival of the A7R when Canon should've been there.
If we are going to switch all our lenses too maybe the Nikon world is a safer bet than going Sony I think.