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Archive 2013 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless

  
 
Samuli Vahonen
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p.111 #1 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


derekdanois wrote:
Given the differences between the two models, is anyone considering getting both the A7 and A7r?

On long run I might. I currently shoot with 2x 5DmkII and I'm considering getting A7 for 3rd body, in order to have wide (28mm), normal (55mm) and tele (135mm) available all the time without lens changes. If I like A7 then I can replace (on few year timespan) the 5DmkII bodies with A7/A7r. If I end up getting more than one, then most likely I get one A7r as well (or replacing model).

Samuli



Dec 01, 2013 at 01:41 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.111 #2 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


theSuede wrote:
Not really, capture or "input" sharpening is objective sharpening. Making the original, before any contrast or other post-processing, as sharp as the recorded media/data can realistically carry or "show". Square pixels have their limitations...

When physical resolution was lower like in the Kodaks, the M8/9, the older MF digitals, the original was often already to sharp for its' own good. You had pixel errors in the form of aliasing and moire already before trying to sharpen, since the image data was severely undersampled. Some people think this "looks good" though, but it's really just adding digital crap on top of the
...Show more

Thanks for your response.

I have always used a three stage approach to sharpening. The first stage, which I referred to as capture sharpening, is a default amount of sharpening that I apply to every image in the same amount for the same camera. The second stage is dependent on the image and varies image to image depending on atmospheric conditions and maybe motion blur or other "artistic" considerations. The third stage is solely dependent on output.

So to clarify, I'm wondering if I need the "first stage" with a camera without an AA filter.



Dec 01, 2013 at 02:03 PM
briantho
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p.111 #3 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I have used my NEX chargers, never charged my A7R through USB so this is not correct.

BTW Battery life is the same for my A7R as for my NEX cameras. A charged battery lasts for an entire days shooting, and still has some juice left. I'd say if you were happy with NEX battery life, you'll be happy with A7R.

miklar wrote:
One can use the camera, but will have to enter the date and time, which will not hold after the camera has been turned off. This is due to the internal battery requiring to be charged, which can only be done with the USB charger
Cheers




Dec 01, 2013 at 02:09 PM
Beni
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p.111 #4 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


naturephoto1 wrote:
It was posted over at L-Camera-forum.com:

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/2569145-post3130.html

I took the chance and downloaded the file.

I believe that it is somehow from Sony. If you want I can run a McAfee Security Scan on my whole hard drive before you download the file. It will take close to an hour.

I also just scanned the file itself and it appears to be clean.

Rich


Heaven! Half way through already, this is what the manual should have been. Really really good.



Dec 01, 2013 at 02:37 PM
carstenw
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p.111 #5 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


turnstyle wrote:
I think it's somewhat hilarious if all the complaints about battery life really do boil down to this. And I hope it turns out to be so.


I would be surprised if it were that simple, but this should account for some non-zero unnecessary usage.

I have also switched my rear screen to showing the shooting parameters, and it can even be turned off completely, which would help more. With the parameters showing, I was able to get through a medium-intensive short day with 20% left (and another battery in my pocket).

If this is as bad as it gets, I will probably only own 4 batteries, mostly for those days where I cannot necessarily recharge at night.

I will keep the 2 for now, and re-evaluate after a few charging/discharging cycles.



Dec 01, 2013 at 03:41 PM
uhoh7
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p.111 #6 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


briantho wrote:
BTW Battery life is the same for my A7R as for my NEX cameras. A charged battery lasts for an entire days shooting, and still has some juice left. I'd say if you were happy with NEX battery life, you'll be happy with A7R.


As many other panicked laments the battery life is a non-issue.

I shot 400 frames and used 20%



Dec 01, 2013 at 03:44 PM
miklar
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p.111 #7 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


briantho wrote:
I have used my NEX chargers, never charged my A7R through USB so this is not correct.

BTW Battery life is the same for my A7R as for my NEX cameras. A charged battery lasts for an entire days shooting, and still has some juice left. I'd say if you were happy with NEX battery life, you'll be happy with A7R.


If you're saying one can use the camera with a pre-charged battery, yes you can and that's what I was saying



Dec 01, 2013 at 03:50 PM
wfrank
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p.111 #8 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


uhoh7 wrote:
As many other panicked laments the battery life is a non-issue.

I shot 400 frames and used 20%


Thats beyond what I've seen but I agree it is a non-issue. Additionally, for the first time in my life I have a unnecessary spare battery as I have a well kept NEX 5N shelfed from now :-)



Dec 01, 2013 at 03:53 PM
briantho
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p.111 #9 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


What I ment was incorrect is that I set the date once and it is holding, despite never being charged over USB.

miklar wrote:
If you're saying one can use the camera with a pre-charged battery, yes you can and that's what I was saying




Dec 01, 2013 at 04:05 PM
uhoh7
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p.111 #10 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Long boot time is another myth.

Use a good card and it boots fast.



Dec 01, 2013 at 04:41 PM
eightfold
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p.111 #11 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Does anybody know if the Olympus F Zuiko AUTO S 38mm F/1.8 lens will work on the A7? Is the image circle smaller than that of the camera? I'd really like to see some samples. I believe I found a couple at Flickr, but I can't seem to find them again. Flickr's search sucks and Google doesn't seem to index it very efficiently.


Dec 01, 2013 at 05:53 PM
AhamB
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p.111 #12 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


eightfold wrote:
Is the image circle smaller than that of the camera?


Yes, it's a Pen F lens so that's half-frame (18x24mm instead of 24x36mm). It should work fine on APS-C -- our member sebboh uses the Zuiko F 42/1.2 and also the lens you're asking about, IIRC.



Dec 01, 2013 at 06:08 PM
Nanh
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p.111 #13 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


AhamB wrote:
Yes, it's a Pen F lens so that's half-frame (18x24mm instead of 24x36mm). It should work fine on APS-C -- our member sebboh uses the Zuiko F 42/1.2 and also the lens you're asking about, IIRC.

http://www.getdpi.com/forum/550448-post322.html
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/551117-post528.html



Dec 01, 2013 at 06:33 PM
eightfold
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p.111 #14 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Nanh wrote:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/550448-post322.html
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/551117-post528.html


Thanks!



Dec 01, 2013 at 06:42 PM
carstenw
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p.111 #15 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Samuli Vahonen wrote:
180mm Leica will do.
From 0.3s to ~"half of the sync speed" (over sync speed there is only horizontal band of sensor exposed to light).
Large tripod (Gitzo 3 series ok).
2s or remote should do fine.
...but you don't have A7r, I doubt it's issue with A7 since it has electronic first curtain.

With 5DmkII I can cause systematically smaller RAW file (=less detail due to vibration) with Leica APO 180mm by using mirror lockup vs. using live view electronic first curtain. I can do this with 180mm Leica if I attach camera's L-bracket to tripod head, instead of using lens collar OR
...Show more

I couldn't find the mirror lockup on the A7, but I did a preliminary test to take a quick, early look if there is something which needs to be looked at closer here.

Setup:

Leica 180/2 at f/4 on Gitzo GT3541XLS tripod, only the thickest leg out, Burzynski Ball Head II (very, very strong, can carry 65kg, or more), RRS lens plate and clamp. Wooden floor (sorry, too cold on the concrete balcony for tests right now), so some vibration is possible (it is late, unlikely anyone is moving, and I was standing still, no cars driving by, no obvious earthquakes, but who knows). Of the crucial shot, I made three of each and looked at the sharpest.

I have not much light here, so I used ISO to vary shutter speed. I went from 2s to 1/125s, no movement anywhere, both with and without electronic first curtain. I am fairly confident, but will repeat with good light. All shots were as sharp as can be expected at the respective ISOs (from 100 to 25600).

Then I repeated everything with Nikkor 300/4 + 1.4TC, set to f/8, only ISO 25600 and 1/15s (often a problematic speed in my experience), and this time, there was a clear difference between the two setups. The shot with electronic first curtain was consistently sharper, not much, but clearly sharper. I think it would probably be possible to see it in 100% view, 50% and 25 %. After that probably not.

This is the A7, so 24MP.

I will repeat another time with more light, but clearly, there is potentially a problem here. 36MP is more sensitive, so with no electronic first curtain, there will be a limit to which shutter speeds and which focal lengths you can reasonable keep sharp.

Edited on Dec 01, 2013 at 06:50 PM · View previous versions



Dec 01, 2013 at 06:48 PM
sebboh
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p.111 #16 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless



AhamB wrote:
Yes, it's a Pen F lens so that's half-frame (18x24mm instead of 24x36mm). It should work fine on APS-C -- our member sebboh uses the Zuiko F 42/1.2 and also the lens you're asking about, IIRC.


vivek on getdpi reports that the 38/1.8 doesn't come close to FF coverage while the 42/1.2 is very close with only the extreme corners being lost to black.

edit: just saw the other links from vivek, guess they're about the same after all.

Edited on Dec 01, 2013 at 06:54 PM · View previous versions



Dec 01, 2013 at 06:49 PM
Lee Saxon
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p.111 #17 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I pre-ordered both A7 and A7r the morning after the announcement. I was only in the first batch of shipments for the former. Guess those rumors of Sony underestimating demand for the A7r were not kidding.


Dec 01, 2013 at 06:53 PM
dimitris77
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p.111 #18 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


I got to play with an A7 tonight at the store and to be honest it felt a bit clanky. The EVF looked ok but it had some lag and also it was jumping around (maybe because of the lens IS engaging). I understand that the image quality will be top notch but for me photography is about enjoying the process of taking photos and to be honest the Sonys didn't feel like the right tool for me. I guess I am an old school guy but they felt more like a clanky computer vs a photography capture tool.


Dec 01, 2013 at 06:58 PM
AhamB
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p.111 #19 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


Nanh wrote:
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/550448-post322.html
http://www.getdpi.com/forum/551117-post528.html


Interesting. I wonder what kind of corner performance you'd get. The 42/1.2 and 38/1.8 have lots of character though, so I guess that corner resolution wouldn't be the main attraction of Pen F lenses.

Edited on Dec 01, 2013 at 07:09 PM · View previous versions



Dec 01, 2013 at 07:03 PM
carstenw
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p.111 #20 · Official: Sony A7 and A7R Fullframe Mirrorless


dimitris77 wrote:
I got to play with an A7 tonight at the store and to be honest it felt a bit clanky. The EVF looked ok but it had some lag and also it was jumping around (maybe because of the lens IS engaging). I understand that the image quality will be top notch but for me photography is about enjoying the process of taking photos and to be honest the Sonys didn't feel like the right tool for me. I guess I am an old school guy but they felt more like a clanky computer vs a photography capture tool.


What does clanky mean?

About the EVF, I have not seen a better one. I didn't like the NEX-7 EVF at all, too laggy and choppy. The Olympus VF-2 is brilliant in that respect, and that was my measuring stock until now. I presume the Sony-Olympus partnership has combined high-resolution Sony OLED viewfinders with Olympus framerate and polish know-how, for the best of both worlds. If you don't like the A7 EVF, you won't like any other on the market.

I love OVFs, I really do, but my D800 has shown me that their days are strictly numbered (for future products), unless something changes dramatically.



Dec 01, 2013 at 07:08 PM
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