lenticular11 wrote:
I guess that my Hasselblad V Makro-Planar 120 f/4 lens has the same optical formula. I'm very happy with its IQ and bokeh.
HI, David, I am not familiar with Hassy lens, but brief internet search seems indicate these two are totally different design. If you are happy with your Hassy(6 element), you will be blow away by Contax 645(8 element) IMO
Don't just judge MTF though, as by looking contax645, you feel it is not as good as Leica S glass. Maybe it is not as good, but rendering is just incredible beautiful. Especially look through S's Viewfinder during shooting, a pure JOY.
Here is one from 120 APO-Summarit S. People are fool dump S glass cheap.
I handled a Leica S in a Melbourne (Aus) shop a couple of years back. It was at a great price (consignment sale) however I had just bought a CV35 f/1.2 (I) and I was invested in my P645D with many lenses. I loved the 'big SLR' feel of the S.
lenticular11 wrote:
Thanks for this Michael - very interesting!
I handled a Leica S in a Melbourne (Aus) shop a couple of years back. It was at a great price (consignment sale) however I had just bought a CV35 f/1.2 (I) and I was invested in my P645D with many lenses. I loved the 'big SLR' feel of the S.
I feel S will be more attractive to old school shooter that not value convenience of fast AF, lots of AF point and peaking etc....It has lots of limitation but only you know that those are real limitation or not I guess it is same for 645Z/D.
zhangyue wrote:
People are fool dump S glass cheap.
Haven't there been a lot of problems with the S lenses, like focus motor failure? Might influence resale value. What has your experience been with S reliability?
Ron, yes, that is one of many major issues haunt S. I have one failure so far with my 100cron after maybe 5000 images. It took about 3-4 weeks from I drop my lens to Leica store SF to pick it up.
They didn’t ask for receipt or any other proof to check lens age. No question asked though I bought the lens new. Even if they charge for the repairs which formally cost about 500 is not that bad given they will pick up shipping and insurance. (I haven’t heard anybody get charged by Leica for real problem. Many user report less cost for preventive fix)
I think S glass reliability is only one of reason really haunt the system, given the lens originally cost, the fixing cost seems very resealable if apply. The more serious issue is they stay 37M for two major generation so the high cost for medium format system can’t be justified given most advanced 35mm already reach 40-50M pixel region.
And there is no update on lens or system for many years that people believe they will dump S system just like R.
Not to mention the competition have move on since then such as FUJI and Hasselblad offer better spec at lower cost.
I personally don’t see S will die, the business model of S is perfect for Leica, and their S glass are definitely first class. The file quality is punching above its paper spec. That is my impression from amateur POV, which I believe contribute big chunk of Leica S sale.
However, I don’t think this system is for people chasing latest technology on sensor spec and rely on advanced AF to make images. Buy it only if you value color depth, skin tone, and tonality over DR, pixel density and AF.
rscheffler wrote:
Haven't there been a lot of problems with the S lenses, like focus motor failure? Might influence resale value. What has your experience been with S reliability?
zhangyue wrote:
Ron, yes, that is one of many major issues haunt S. I have one failure so far with my 100cron after maybe 5000 images. It took about 3-4 weeks from I drop my lens to Leica store SF to pick it up.
They didn’t ask for receipt or any other proof to check lens age. No question asked though I bought the lens new. Even if they charge for the repairs which formally cost about 500 is not that bad given they will pick up shipping and insurance. (I haven’t heard anybody get charged by Leica for real problem. Many user report less cost for preventive fix)
I think S glass reliability is only one of reason really haunt the system, given the lens originally cost, the fixing cost seems very resealable if apply. The more serious issue is they stay 37M for two major generation so the high cost for medium format system can’t be justified given most advanced 35mm already reach 40-50M pixel region.
And there is no update on lens or system for many years that people believe they will dump S system just like R.
Not to mention the competition have move on since then such as FUJI and Hasselblad offer better spec at lower cost.
I personally don’t see S will die, the business model of S is perfect for Leica, and their S glass are definitely first class. The file quality is punching above its paper spec. That is my impression from amateur POV, which I believe contribute big chunk of Leica S sale.
However, I don’t think this system is for people chasing latest technology on sensor spec and rely on advanced AF to make images. Buy it only if you value color depth, skin tone, and tonality over DR, pixel density and AF.
I can agree with most of this, but as a working professional I couldn't rely on the S-System for work and it's a big investment for "fun" use. I recently re-purchased a lot of M gear (that I mostly sold off out of anger) after being bitter at Leica for a long time for poor treatment over the S and SL systems. I'm pretty flush in M gear now (just purchased as in last week) and thinking about it it's about the same price as a decent S kit and it's also more of a fun system so I could technically re-invest in the S but I'm scared to do so no matter the IQ of the lenses because of the poor treatment I faced in the past and the problems I had with the system. Right now I'm using the 75SL lens a lot and although I would prefer to own the 100S, the build quality and weight savings suit me better. And if I did decide to use the SL in a working environment more the 75SL AF would help with that. Also keep in mind I still have the S to SL adapter but I feel the lenses just look/work better on the S-006 (note how I said S-006 and not S-007, another reason why I'm not keen to re-invest in the S-System).
I've not really had all that much inspiration to shoot/post fun stuff, but I do enjoy lurking and viewing images you all take on the Leica-M and medium format threads. And I still have the X1D and I still find it to be the most fun I've had since my first time owning an M.
I lust after an X1D, even though I would need to sell probably almost all of my existing other stuff to pay for one. Local Australian local price is A$11000! As for lenses, I would resort to only adapted lenses for the short-term.
Flash's images from Cuba using the X1D had a similar effect on me as when I first frequented the Leica thread, and I know where that led!
lenticular11 wrote:
I lust after an X1D, even though I would need to sell probably almost all of my existing other stuff to pay for one. Local Australian local price is A$11000! As for lenses, I would resort to only adapted lenses for the short-term.
Flash's images from Cuba using the X1D had a similar effect on me as when I first frequented the Leica thread, and I know where that led!
I've been in an out of Melbourne a lot lately. If you REALLY wanted an X1D I have a second set (both of mine are black) and a spare 45mm and 120mm I could sell you when I'm in AU....
But yeah for me I think the X1D is more fun than I've had in a long time. I actually bought back a bunch of Leica M gear so I could do a serious think on if I want to get back into Leica or stick with the X1D. I guess the only reason I'm still holding onto the though of M is because:
A) I'm very familiar with M lenses.
B) I'm really quite quick at RF focusing and I enjoy it, so it's a skill/joy I'd rather not loose.
And honestly the only reason I'm still holding onto the SL is because nobody wants to buy it at a reasonable price.. So I keep adding primes as they come out hoping that they'll change my view on the SL. TBH I really do like the new 75SL and 90SL but I have never really loved the SL sensor and just overall SL experience (I don't like how the viewfinder handles things, I just don't like the overlay AF settings).
But also the grass is always greener, because I look at old S-System images or images I see on here shot with the S and I want to buy one back which is pure insanity!
lenticular11 wrote:
I lust after an X1D, even though I would need to sell probably almost all of my existing other stuff to pay for one. Local Australian local price is A$11000! As for lenses, I would resort to only adapted lenses for the short-term.
Flash's images from Cuba using the X1D had a similar effect on me as when I first frequented the Leica thread, and I know where that led!
David, why not go for the Fuji GFX, they go for more reasonable prices incuding the lenses. The lens line, which are very good, is rapidly increasing. It contains the same sensor. You prefer the design?
The reason I didn't go for the GFX is that I have to heavely invested in the Pentax Z - BTW uses the same sensor for years already - and I really like how Pentax hanndles the files.
I probably jump over when the next sensor generation comes to Fuji, or Pentax comes up with a smaller body and a nice wide angle lens. No complains about the quality of the 28-45, but man that lens is heavy especially together with the Z body
sculptormic wrote:
David, why not go for the Fuji GFX, they go for more reasonable prices incuding the lenses. The lens line, which are very good, is rapidly increasing. It contains the same sensor. You prefer the design?
The reason I didn't go for the GFX is that I have to heavely invested in the Pentax Z - BTW uses the same sensor for years already - and I really like how Pentax hanndles the files.
I probably jump over when the next sensor generation comes to Fuji, or Pentax comes up with a smaller body and a nice wide angle lens. No complains about the quality of the 28-45, but man that lens is heavy especially together with the Z body ...Show more →
Yes Michiel, I have thought of the Fuji GFX, and I know that all three cameras use the same Sony sensor. I just think that the Hasselblad is a bit of a game-changer, purely by virtue of its form-factor. I have absolutely no qualms about the quality of the GFX and equally the 645Z.
adamdewilde wrote:
I've been in an out of Melbourne a lot lately. If you REALLY wanted an X1D I have a second set (both of mine are black) and a spare 45mm and 120mm I could sell you when I'm in AU....
But yeah for me I think the X1D is more fun than I've had in a long time. I actually bought back a bunch of Leica M gear so I could do a serious think on if I want to get back into Leica or stick with the X1D. I guess the only reason I'm still holding onto the though of M is because:
A) I'm very familiar with M lenses.
B) I'm really quite quick at RF focusing and I enjoy it, so it's a skill/joy I'd rather not loose.
And honestly the only reason I'm still holding onto the SL is because nobody wants to buy it at a reasonable price.. So I keep adding primes as they come out hoping that they'll change my view on the SL. TBH I really do like the new 75SL and 90SL but I have never really loved the SL sensor and just overall SL experience (I don't like how the viewfinder handles things, I just don't like the overlay AF settings).
But also the grass is always greener, because I look at old S-System images or images I see on here shot with the S and I want to buy one back which is pure insanity!...Show more →
You can always play the old S file to get a feel if you want that feeling back. I did this before bought ZF planar back.
I can't imagine use S if I am a pro so I fully understand what you are talking about. On the other hand, it is still my favorite system to use. Let's just say this is the best portrait system for me.
D850 with a few Nikon prime is hard to beat for IQ and reliability. and M are still a joy to use if I want portability.
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lenticular11 wrote:
Yes Michiel, I have thought of the Fuji GFX, and I know that all three cameras use the same Sony sensor. I just think that the Hasselblad is a bit of a game-changer, purely by virtue of its form-factor. I have absolutely no qualms about the quality of the GFX and equally the 645Z.
Wait for X2D. once it support adapting lens with fast read out electric shutter and better EVF, the system will be thrived. I look forward to adapt my glass on it.
I guess it is same for 645Z/D. 
