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Archive 2013Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
p.7 #1Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
Frankly, this board notwithstanding, primes are but a very small segment of the camera market. How many people do you see shooting primes around you? We might all talk about how many different lenses can be adapted on the NEX platform, and I own 10 or 11. But all I see when I look at other people shooting NEX (including the 7), is the kit zoom. So a 24-70 that is not too large, not too heavy, not too expensive makes all the sense in the world IMHO.
Sep 20, 2013 at 12:44 AM
p.7 #2Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
They got the 16-70 down to 308 grams so why would anyone think they would shoot themselves in the foot with some giant FF zoom?
And it has to be at least very good, with all the other FF 24-70s to compare it to, otherwise 'stepping down' will refer to image quality as well as size/weight, not what Sony has in mind for such an important camera.
In fact, it's a cheeky thing to do, choosing a standard FL range spec - 'see how small a high end 24-70 can be?' Agree, philippe, the hit of the cost of the body is lessened for people with a 'kit zoom', which then gets discounted over time.
And the bane of mid range zooms - FL range - is the industry standard 2.9:1, not the 16-70's 4.4:1. The great 'low compromise' ones are 2:1 (all the 35-70s) or at most around 2.5:1 (28-70).
And it has to be at least very good, with all the other FF 24-70s to compare it to, otherwise 'stepping down' will refer to image quality as well as size/weight, not what Sony has in mind for such an important camera.
In fact, it's a cheeky thing to do, choosing a standard FL range spec - 'see how small a high end 24-70 can be?' Agree, philippe, the hit of the cost of the body is lessened for people with a 'kit zoom', which then gets discounted over time.
And the bane of mid range zooms - FL range - is the industry standard 2.9:1, not the 16-70's 4.4:1. The great 'low compromise' ones are 2:1 (all the 35-70s) or at most around 2.5:1 (28-70).
Sep 20, 2013 at 01:13 AM
p.7 #3Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
ulrikft2 wrote:
I think that a 24-70/4 the size of the canon one, albeit a bit smaller due to no IS, would be just fine and dandy as a kit-zoom for a 15-20 % larger than nex-7 body. I don't own any zooms, but I think I would get that if not for anything else as a "when my gf wants to borrow my camera and cba to fiddle with manual focus"-lens.
No way would I buy a $1000+ Zeiss zoom lens just for the times when my gf wants to borrow my camera. In fact I bought her a Nikon J1 kit for this exact reason!
I think that a 24-70/4 the size of the canon one, albeit a bit smaller due to no IS, would be just fine and dandy as a kit-zoom for a 15-20 % larger than nex-7 body. I don't own any zooms, but I think I would get that if not for anything else as a "when my gf wants to borrow my camera and cba to fiddle with manual focus"-lens.
No way would I buy a $1000+ Zeiss zoom lens just for the times when my gf wants to borrow my camera. In fact I bought her a Nikon J1 kit for this exact reason!
Sep 20, 2013 at 04:09 AM
p.7 #4Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
Can the E-mount accommodate a FF sensor at all?
Sep 20, 2013 at 04:26 AM
p.7 #5Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
balazsu wrote:
Can the E-mount accommodate a FF sensor at all?
Yes.
Rich
Can the E-mount accommodate a FF sensor at all?
Yes.
Rich
Sep 20, 2013 at 04:27 AM
p.7 #6Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
You can check the VG900 photos, e-mount FF Sony video camera:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/vg900/
balazsu wrote:
Can the E-mount accommodate a FF sensor at all?
http://www.flickr.com/groups/vg900/
balazsu wrote:
Can the E-mount accommodate a FF sensor at all?
Sep 20, 2013 at 04:31 AM
p.7 #7Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
SAR source:
Sony representative told me two FF E-mount cameras are coming. One like the NEX-7 and one like the RX1.
Now is the magical time when we have a semi-vague framework to project our hopes and fears upon
Sony representative told me two FF E-mount cameras are coming. One like the NEX-7 and one like the RX1.
Now is the magical time when we have a semi-vague framework to project our hopes and fears upon
Sep 20, 2013 at 06:54 AM
p.7 #8Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
uhoh7 wrote:
SAR source:
Sony representative told me two FF E-mount cameras are coming. One like the NEX-7 and one like the RX1.
Now is the magical time when we have a semi-vague framework to project our hopes and fears upon
Already reported in the following which we are having a lively discussion (on the last page of the thread):
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1225753
Rich
SAR source:
Sony representative told me two FF E-mount cameras are coming. One like the NEX-7 and one like the RX1.
Now is the magical time when we have a semi-vague framework to project our hopes and fears upon
Already reported in the following which we are having a lively discussion (on the last page of the thread):
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1225753
Rich
Sep 20, 2013 at 06:57 AM
p.7 #9Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
h00ligan wrote:
Counterintuitive
F4 zoom on a small body. It's in the middle.
It's not fast, it's going to be heavy relative to the body and 2-3 primes will probably work for the same weight.
I understand the limitations of the size aspect, but if they can't do better than solid f4, I question why bother. The primes are smaller, faster, and likely better iq..with what wil probably be similar pricing
I've been known to be wrong a lot
The goal of a NEX FF system should be a compact system that is practical and flexible. Every system needs a competent zoom because frankly there are a lot of times when juggling 2-3 primes is not preferable. So zoom, even if a tad heavy, is needed. A 24-70 f/4 zoom would seem a good choice because it would be lighter than 2.8, and contrary to popular belief on modern photo forms f/4 is quite servicable Complemented the zoom with a few primes lens choices, and the system becomes a little more flexible.
The point here again is to not make one piece of equipment the end-all be-all solution for every circumstance. It's about providing a reasonable range of options.
For a NEX system I'd be happy with a quality 24-70 zoom; in circumstances where I want something faster than f/4 I can carry along a prime or two. In circumstnaces where I absolutely must have a 24-70 2.8 zoom (which are rare) I'd probably be using my DSLR instead.
I'd don't expect the NEX FF lens lineup to match other long-established lens lineups right out of the gate. But then again, it doesn't have to, since because of the mirrorless design you should be able to adapt all those other lenses anyway So no, As long as they have a decent selection of native mount lens that are actually good performers, I think they're on track
Counterintuitive
F4 zoom on a small body. It's in the middle.
It's not fast, it's going to be heavy relative to the body and 2-3 primes will probably work for the same weight.
I understand the limitations of the size aspect, but if they can't do better than solid f4, I question why bother. The primes are smaller, faster, and likely better iq..with what wil probably be similar pricing
I've been known to be wrong a lot
The goal of a NEX FF system should be a compact system that is practical and flexible. Every system needs a competent zoom because frankly there are a lot of times when juggling 2-3 primes is not preferable. So zoom, even if a tad heavy, is needed. A 24-70 f/4 zoom would seem a good choice because it would be lighter than 2.8, and contrary to popular belief on modern photo forms f/4 is quite servicable
Complemented the zoom with a few primes lens choices, and the system becomes a little more flexible.The point here again is to not make one piece of equipment the end-all be-all solution for every circumstance. It's about providing a reasonable range of options.
For a NEX system I'd be happy with a quality 24-70 zoom; in circumstances where I want something faster than f/4 I can carry along a prime or two. In circumstnaces where I absolutely must have a 24-70 2.8 zoom (which are rare) I'd probably be using my DSLR instead.
I'd don't expect the NEX FF lens lineup to match other long-established lens lineups right out of the gate. But then again, it doesn't have to, since because of the mirrorless design you should be able to adapt all those other lenses anyway
So no, As long as they have a decent selection of native mount lens that are actually good performers, I think they're on track Sep 20, 2013 at 09:03 AM
p.7 #10Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
Good points all.
I think my hangup with the idea is f4. Basically if it is the kit lens it's fine, but fit hey want to charge $1200 because it's a Zeiss zoom, not so much.
Tot he comparison with the 24-105 canon. That lens is not what I consider to bea. Good L lens. The imaging quality of the 24-70 is IMO better, let alone a second revision.
That's said it's not a BAD lens. It's nothing special. But does have more reach than the proposed sony.
So a ff nex with 12-35 f4 kit at what....$3000-3500. I guess if the rx1 is selling that kit would too.
I think my hangup with the idea is f4. Basically if it is the kit lens it's fine, but fit hey want to charge $1200 because it's a Zeiss zoom, not so much.
Tot he comparison with the 24-105 canon. That lens is not what I consider to bea. Good L lens. The imaging quality of the 24-70 is IMO better, let alone a second revision.
That's said it's not a BAD lens. It's nothing special. But does have more reach than the proposed sony.
So a ff nex with 12-35 f4 kit at what....$3000-3500. I guess if the rx1 is selling that kit would too.
Sep 24, 2013 at 01:14 AM
p.7 #11Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
h00ligan wrote:
Good points all.
I think my hangup with the idea is f4. Basically if it is the kit lens it's fine, but fit hey want to charge $1200 because it's a Zeiss zoom, not so much.
Tot he comparison with the 24-105 canon. That lens is not what I consider to bea. Good L lens. The imaging quality of the 24-70 is IMO better, let alone a second revision.
That's said it's not a BAD lens. It's nothing special. But does have more reach than the proposed sony.
So a ff nex with 12-35 f4 kit at what....$3000-3500. I guess...Show more →
The 5Diii is $3500 without a lens, so that price doesn't seem out of whack, to me.
Good points all.
I think my hangup with the idea is f4. Basically if it is the kit lens it's fine, but fit hey want to charge $1200 because it's a Zeiss zoom, not so much.
Tot he comparison with the 24-105 canon. That lens is not what I consider to bea. Good L lens. The imaging quality of the 24-70 is IMO better, let alone a second revision.
That's said it's not a BAD lens. It's nothing special. But does have more reach than the proposed sony.
So a ff nex with 12-35 f4 kit at what....$3000-3500. I guess...Show more →
The 5Diii is $3500 without a lens, so that price doesn't seem out of whack, to me.
Sep 24, 2013 at 10:17 AM
p.7 #12Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
Sep 24, 2013 at 10:57 AM
p.7 #13Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/bestpricephoto_5sculptormic wrote:
http://bestpricephoto.com/h/product_info.php/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-digital-camera-body-only-p-20686?zmap=20686&zmac=2&zmas=1&zmam=80512835&csv=pg&osCsid=b34b0b85239ea840502f3f346ea51449
Yes, the price is expensive compared to current FF dslrs but size wise only competition to Sony FF is Leica. RX1 & RX100 are Sony's money making products and one year after their release still there is no competition. Sony will get as much as possible from early FF nex adopters.
Sep 24, 2013 at 11:10 AM
p.7 #14Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
There's always a sweet spot between number of units sold and profit/each unit. Too much $$$$ ( specially translated to European prices) and they might loose a considerable percentage of potential buyers, who maybe would wait for a more affordable FF NEX camera ( supposing Sony releases first the top FF model ) or a real alternative from another manufacturer.
Of course Sony knows that well. They might have also positive clues on what the competition is up to and if they're able to answer adequately within a relatively short timelapse to the FF NEX attack
Of course Sony knows that well. They might have also positive clues on what the competition is up to and if they're able to answer adequately within a relatively short timelapse to the FF NEX attack
Sep 24, 2013 at 11:38 AM
p.7 #15Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
serhan_ wrote:
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/bestpricephoto_5
Yes, the price is expensive compared to current FF dslrs but size wise only competition to Sony FF is Leica. RX1 & RX100 are Sony's money making products and one year after their release still there is no competition. Sony will get as much as possible from early FF nex adopters.
+1
those are quite the low prices by the way. is that a reputable dealer with warranty support? i ask because people on FM seem to be selling used 5DIIIs for $500 more than that price.
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/bestpricephoto_5sculptormic wrote
http://bestpricephoto.com/h/product_info.php/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-digital-camera-body-only-p-20686?zmap=20686&zmac=2&zmas=1&zmam=80512835&csv=pg&osCsid=b34b0b85239ea840502f3f346ea51449+1
those are quite the low prices by the way. is that a reputable dealer with warranty support? i ask because people on FM seem to be selling used 5DIIIs for $500 more than that price.
Sep 24, 2013 at 11:42 AM
p.7 #16Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
sebboh wrote:
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/bestpricephoto_5
Yes, the price is expensive compared to current FF dslrs but size wise only competition to Sony FF is Leica. RX1 & RX100 are Sony's money making products and one year after their release still there is no competition. Sony will get as much as possible from early FF nex adopters.+1
those are quite the low prices by the way. is that a reputable dealer with warranty support? i ask because people on FM seem to be selling used 5DIIIs for $500 more than that price.
Read the reviews in the first link. That would say it all to me.
Rich
serhan_ wrote
http://www.resellerratings.com/store/bestpricephoto_5sculptormic wrote
http://bestpricephoto.com/h/product_info.php/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-digital-camera-body-only-p-20686?zmap=20686&zmac=2&zmas=1&zmam=80512835&csv=pg&osCsid=b34b0b85239ea840502f3f346ea51449those are quite the low prices by the way. is that a reputable dealer with warranty support? i ask because people on FM seem to be selling used 5DIIIs for $500 more than that price.
Read the reviews in the first link. That would say it all to me.
Rich
Sep 24, 2013 at 11:45 AM
p.7 #17Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
sebboh wrote:
those are quite the low prices by the way. is that a reputable dealer with warranty support?
Nope, not from my previous research. I would not touch that place.
those are quite the low prices by the way. is that a reputable dealer with warranty support?
Nope, not from my previous research. I would not touch that place.
Sep 24, 2013 at 11:46 AM
p.7 #18Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
artd wrote:
Every system needs a competent zoom because frankly there are a lot of times when juggling 2-3 primes is not preferable. So zoom, even if a tad heavy, is needed. A 24-70 f/4 zoom would seem a good choice because it would be lighter than 2.8, and contrary to popular belief on modern photo forms f/4 is quite servicable Complemented the zoom with a few primes lens choices, and the system becomes a little more flexible.
Absolutely. The most important native lens is a reasonable speed constant aperture zoom. As sharp as possible. Canon has that nice 24/105 f/4. I would rather have faster if it could be kept light. Acutally there should prolly be two, one at f/4 and one at 2.8. This is pro system, and if you have that, you can get the goods by yourself at an event. That's what the m240 cannot do.
The Nex sort of failed in this regard as the good zooms are so late. But I use the 18200sel often for events and real estate. No Client has complained
For real estate you have to have a wide also, so sony should give us a a 10-22 with a bit of speed also.
With those lenses available, I think some pros would actually move to Sony.
Every system needs a competent zoom because frankly there are a lot of times when juggling 2-3 primes is not preferable. So zoom, even if a tad heavy, is needed. A 24-70 f/4 zoom would seem a good choice because it would be lighter than 2.8, and contrary to popular belief on modern photo forms f/4 is quite servicable
Complemented the zoom with a few primes lens choices, and the system becomes a little more flexible.Absolutely. The most important native lens is a reasonable speed constant aperture zoom. As sharp as possible. Canon has that nice 24/105 f/4. I would rather have faster if it could be kept light. Acutally there should prolly be two, one at f/4 and one at 2.8. This is pro system, and if you have that, you can get the goods by yourself at an event. That's what the m240 cannot do.
The Nex sort of failed in this regard as the good zooms are so late. But I use the 18200sel often for events and real estate. No Client has complained
For real estate you have to have a wide also, so sony should give us a a 10-22 with a bit of speed also.
With those lenses available, I think some pros would actually move to Sony.
Sep 24, 2013 at 11:54 AM
p.7 #19Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
sculptormic wrote:
http://bestpricephoto.com/h/product_info.php/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-digital-camera-body-only-p-20686?zmap=20686&zmac=2&zmas=1&zmam=80512835&csv=pg&osCsid=b34b0b85239ea840502f3f346ea51449
I'm talking about release price from reputable dealers here in the US.
http://bestpricephoto.com/h/product_info.php/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-digital-camera-body-only-p-20686?zmap=20686&zmac=2&zmas=1&zmam=80512835&csv=pg&osCsid=b34b0b85239ea840502f3f346ea51449
I'm talking about release price from reputable dealers here in the US.
Sep 24, 2013 at 11:59 AM
p.7 #20Sony Full Frame attack: (SR5) Three E-mount FF to come within 5 months!
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Nope, not from my previous research. I would not touch that place.
I wouldn't know if it is reputable dealer or not. I am not familiar with American dealers.
It looks oké to me. Weeks ago I saw the 6D for sale for a similar price at rythercamera.com
It is very tempting. Would be like € 956,- for a European.
Enlighten me. What could go wrong? No guarantee? Does Canon not have to repear factory faults within a certain period?
sebboh wrote
those are quite the low prices by the way. is that a reputable dealer with warranty support?I wouldn't know if it is reputable dealer or not. I am not familiar with American dealers.
It looks oké to me. Weeks ago I saw the 6D for sale for a similar price at rythercamera.com
It is very tempting. Would be like € 956,- for a European.
Enlighten me. What could go wrong? No guarantee? Does Canon not have to repear factory faults within a certain period?
Sep 24, 2013 at 12:49 PM