p.3 #1 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
I think one thing that really works for us is becoming, as Jspytek said, "their tog." We do softball because I can be on the field. Parents can't. I have sought out as many places that are safe as I can find on the field, that no parent can get to from outside the fence. I also get faces on everything. Alot of times parents shoot from their team's side regardless if they are facing into or away from the action. I have access to both sides via full out sprinting. This sprinting for the shot is what has turned us into "their tog." Most of my clientele is red necks and $#!* kickers. They respect hard work. They will monetize hard work. I know of coaches who point to me when their players aren't giving their all. That work is what has built our niche. Without a niche in the market you will invest and flop. I know several parents with great gear who simply put it down if I come by. They know my prices are fair, I will work with them on bulk purchase, and the work is a quality they value. Not the best, per se, but it is a quality they value.
I truly think that the only way we make this work is by having friends at the field. My wife has the perfect attitude for this work. I love it to death and eat it up with a spoon. If the team goes lefty righty all day, I'll sprint between every single batter. All day, all weekend, 100+ degrees or not. People see that. I have heard about togs who are rude to the players, or block coaches views, or just stay in the way of plays instead of running away from the action as they should. People hate all of that. You will not be their tog doing those things.
We are still in the entry level for this work. I know that well. But we have spent a couple years and will continue for a couple more building up a solid foundation. We turned a profit our first year, but we did 29 tourneys to do that. This year we will get 45. Constant hard work is the only way to make it in this field. IMHO
p.3 #2 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
+1 to Bark... my new best friend. Spot on. Every post. You have to go above and beyond. I get lineups in advance and ask coaches about lefty-righties so I can plan out my sprint times. Knowing in advance will also allow me to know which side of the diamond to start on. Sometimes, you'll still get trapped on a baseline against the grain. If that's the case, look to go horizontal and get at least BIF with a face and a nice follow through and look. I rubberband lineups to the lens hood, and be mindful of subs coming in. All that makes a difference.
But no matter what, it's three prong, or really four prong that has to all work together in order to have a chance at sales...
1... Getting shots that no parent is getting
2... Access
3... Marketing
4... Importance of game/tournament/event. This is crucial! Vacation tournaments mean vacation allotment on photos. Parents budget this. On vacation, means vacation dollars will be spent. If they are not in a hotel for your tournament, your sales potential diminishes greatly. Be mindful of that.
p.3 #3 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
This might be a little off tangent but I found this post from 2006 from a recent thread. It's an interesting take. You might want to take a look at this angle especially if you want to differentiate yourself from the DWAC's and MWAC's. The thread gets interesting when Crasherx puts in his .02 worth of ideas.
p.3 #4 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
I agree with most of what is being said here. I shoot lots of sports, and tournaments are just not worth it. The best way to make money at them is find a club that is from out of state/province (province for us Canadians ) that is bringing a bunch of teams and contact the club with an offer to shoot each team for a flat rate for a couple games, and provide them with CD's of the games. $250/300 or $500 for 2 games for 10/15 CD's of the game.
I have had success with this primarily because not all parents travel out of town to games anymore, especially the older kids. When you can target a group who don't have an opportunity to see their kids playing, the parents are willing to spend $20-$30 each to have some shots of the games they are missing.
Going through a club gets you some creditability, and if you offer the club some photos for their club use from any team that buys then they have a reason to promote you to their teams.
I did this with the USA Cup in MN a couple years back, as I was traveling in with my son's team, and was shooting for them, I was able to pick up 3 other teams, and make a reasonable day rate to do it.
A month may not be a lot of time to find teams, but it is worth giving it a try.
p.3 #5 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
gschlact wrote:
We are not dissagreeing that the MWAC and freebies have nearly removed all sales opportunities. This thread was about what is left for professionals to potentially do to differnentiate and create sales worthwhile of their time. The largest common denominator across all answers to this question is that Quality must be better, the product must be different than what the MWAC is giving away. Realize too, the photographer makes a great difference. Take your post from above as the example. You can have the best new $6k lens, but if you create images like the several you posted, there is plenty of room for the Pro's to differentiate with their product. This leaves the original question of the best way of maximize any potential ROI....Show more →
I'll say it again - it's not about the equipment and images! The "common denominator" is not about "Quality Must Be Better" !
just search "lacrosse" in that section and you'll see comments from experienced photogaphers that have shot local LAXFEST, North American Lacrosse Invitational, etc. and why they no longer shoot that kind of tournament. It's worth reading if you plan on shooting lacrosse or any sports where they allow PWAC's next to the playing field.
You don't even have to take my pics as an example!
damn those PWAC's !
double damn the "Uncle Bobs" !
p.3 #6 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
Agreed with several above posts...of course we're (pros) are going to get better photos (we certainly better be), but at some point the question arises:
"When is 'good enough'...good enough?"
Nearly every parent has a cell phone with camera, ipad with video/camera, or PnS that captures their child....which begs the question: "What more do I (they, as parents) need!?"
That's when it comes down to 'exposure'. No, not the kind on the camera! The marketing, advertising, sprinting, big lenses, different angles on the field, etc...
Parents HAVE to have a reason to come see what you have different than what they already have.
That's a big, phat lens
That's a shooter that is on every part of the field... and seen, but not seen
That's banners, flyers, advertising to promote the booth, specials, etc.
Why do successful companies spend MILLIONS on advertising via print, radio, TV, internet, mailings, etc... Because being seen is key to being noticed and in the mind of the consumer.
Think about it...if we as photographers went to a tournament to shoot our own kid/team...what would compel YOU to check out what the 'official' photographer got that we didn't?
p.3 #7 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
Just thinking outloud... if parents on vacation spend vacation money, and parents of teams tend to stay at the same hotel, (and a lot of times the hotels are booked with all out of town teams), and parents don't have time to stand at a booth after the match is over.... why not talk to the hotel and set up a booth at the hotel where they are staying. Parents at our soccer team tournament will talk and show off their goods. So why not bring the goods to them?
p.3 #8 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
I recently wound down my tournament/event business - I loved cutting up with the kids, interacting with the parents, and shooting sports was FUN. But at the end of the weekend after I prepped for days, hired several photographers, paid for vendor fees, taxes and temporary licenses - and my net weekend take was $200-300 - I decided that I couldn't justify doing this much any more from a financial standpoint. There is no really good answer when your wife says "Remind me again why you worked all weekend to make $200, and you didn't get stuff done here at the house or see our own kids."
And this was with
1) high dollar sports such as ice hockey and volleyball
2) with exclusive "official" photographer rights
3) sales table with viewing stations near concession stands
4) protected shooting locations
5) print on site capability for 4x6 and 5x7
6) high end tournaments such as state championships, etc
When we DID do well at a particular tournament, we invariably did it through volume. That is - selling team discs with enough photos on it that parents couldn't believe the value. We'd price the discs on a per game basis - $100 for one match, $175 for two matches, $250 for three matches, $300 for the entire weekend per team. Or something similar. "Hey, I'd be glad to sell you three 4x6 prints for $15. But if you have 12-15 players on your team and you can get a few more parents interested... all you gotta do is have everybody kick in $15-20 and you'll get hundreds of photos of the entire team for ALL the matches. Just have one parent collect the money, I'm gonna mail one set of discs to the one address on the order form."
Here's what didn't work:
1. Using the viewing stations to drive business. With 10-15 players per team, one or two parents each, and 400-600 shots per match to sort through even quickly scanning on a monitor - this became a viewing bottleneck. We had deep lines and frustrated customers for each viewing station. Not to mention the capital costs were huge. We eventually reduced the number of viewing monitors and used the bottleneck to promote discs - "If you don't have time, just purchase the team disc and you can see all of these in full resolution at home whenever you like."
2. Individual prints. Worked ourselves to death. And aggravating to maintain, feed, and keep clean. An absolute pain in the neck that required constant attendance.
3. Any combination of products available... we tried. Posters. Keychains. Mugs. Ornaments. Fatheads. Animoto videos. Calendars. Championship banners. The bottom line that 98% of the time, parents either wanted prints or discs. Don't waste your time by offering variety.
4. Anything related to outdoor sports. There are not enough exclusive venues and parents can shoot in sunlight and get "good enough" photos.
So the bottom line - the only thing that worked for us was volume and simplicity.
Having said that, if I had to consider a new product to offer, it would be a StickyAlbum. Pick out 20 pics of a single kids, upload to a prebuilt template, and within five or ten minutes, the parent has an online photogallery on their smartphone or iPad that they can post to FB or share to Aunt Helen in Texas. And the product was deliverable via email. (We've had solid success and tremendous feedback with this at weddings - the mother of the bride has pics on her phone and is sharing them before the reception is over. It's awesome to see the tears and response to these.)
Finally, I will occasionally use action shots to promote other business. If I can get their team and individual photo business, I will often offer to show up for a game or two and include action shots as part of the upper tier photo packages I offer for T&I. This has really helped drive higher sales for T&I. It's worth it to me to give up an afternoon to help drive another $300-600 in T&I sales.
p.3 #9 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
Fish On wrote:
This might be a little off tangent but I found this post from 2006 from a recent thread. It's an interesting take. You might want to take a look at this angle especially if you want to differentiate yourself from the DWAC's and MWAC's. The thread gets interesting when Crasherx puts in his .02 worth of ideas.
p.3 #10 · sizing up tournament photo vendo opportunity?
CW100, I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying not to shoot anything where there is a mwac or a dwac? I'm an event photographer as well and we travel to many tournaments all over the country just about every weekend and make very good money doing just that. (Don't tell anyone but we even do quite well with soccer and lacrosse). One thing to remember is that mom or dad is obviously a picture person. Any chance I get I ask a parent about their equipment and then ask what number their kid is. I then snap a few and show it to them and say something like "I'm sure this isn't as good as yours". Then let them know they can see more on your computers and tell them where you are set up. Just keep it real with the parents and be careful not to put yourself above them, let the quality of your work make them realize they are not on the same level. Just my two cents.
) that is bringing a bunch of teams and contact the club with an offer to shoot each team for a flat rate for a couple games, and provide them with CD's of the games. $250/300 or $500 for 2 games for 10/15 CD's of the game.