This topic is in the 2013 archive. You can read it and like its posts here. It is read only.
Archive 2013So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
p.1 #1So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
I have been using Canon for..ever. In my case, that means about 7-8 years, back when I first started playing with dSLRs. Now I actually do it for work...weddings, and I constantly run into dim light and bright light and the massive contrast between direct sun and shadow...and I've been using 5d2's for the last 2 years or more, and just recently bought a 5d3 with the money I got back after selling my D800...
But the godawfulness of the shadows. OMG. The 5d3 is as bad or worse for shadow pushing than the 5d2 (at least at reasonable ISOs for shooting in daylight, e.g. 100-400), and the noise really isn't much/any different at high ISOs than the D800 I used to own. I knew the "upgrade" was merely an autofocus bump before buying it, although I have found the silent shutter quite useful...but jeez, the shadows are really so inflexible.
So it's making me miss the D800, despite its sluggish live view flaws and lack of Canon glass...
When is Canon going to frigging improve their shadow noise? It's sickeningly bad. I've used 5d, 5d2, 1ds2 and now 5d3, and the shadow noise...god it's bad. Pushing anything 1-2 stops and I see chroma crap everywhere in the dark areas. Forces me to set LR color noise reduction around 70+...
I'm not just posting because I'm some stupid moron who should be exposing properly anyway because blah blah...but in fact when there is no correct exposure for a given environment because it has too much dynamic range, and I have to cut corners somewhere, and flash is NOT an option...I want to be punished less for choosing to underexpose to retain the faces that are in shade rather than overexposing and blowing out over 80% of the environment...
Edited on Jun 01, 2013 at 02:22 PM · View previous versions
But the godawfulness of the shadows. OMG. The 5d3 is as bad or worse for shadow pushing than the 5d2 (at least at reasonable ISOs for shooting in daylight, e.g. 100-400), and the noise really isn't much/any different at high ISOs than the D800 I used to own. I knew the "upgrade" was merely an autofocus bump before buying it, although I have found the silent shutter quite useful...but jeez, the shadows are really so inflexible.
So it's making me miss the D800, despite its sluggish live view flaws and lack of Canon glass...
When is Canon going to frigging improve their shadow noise? It's sickeningly bad. I've used 5d, 5d2, 1ds2 and now 5d3, and the shadow noise...god it's bad. Pushing anything 1-2 stops and I see chroma crap everywhere in the dark areas. Forces me to set LR color noise reduction around 70+...
I'm not just posting because I'm some stupid moron who should be exposing properly anyway because blah blah...but in fact when there is no correct exposure for a given environment because it has too much dynamic range, and I have to cut corners somewhere, and flash is NOT an option...I want to be punished less for choosing to underexpose to retain the faces that are in shade rather than overexposing and blowing out over 80% of the environment...
Edited on Jun 01, 2013 at 02:22 PM · View previous versions
Jun 01, 2013 at 02:14 PM
p.1 #2So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Are you moaning again? Why don't you just sell you're Canon gear, invest in Nikon then moan in that forum and give us all a break! 
Jun 01, 2013 at 02:20 PM
p.1 #3So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Nothing you can do about it except to use old skool techniques of controlling contrast: use reflectors and/or fill flash to reduce the difference between shadows and highlights. I just played a midday wedding at the Hale Koa courtyard and an entire crew was used to shoot that wedding with cranes for video and multiple assistants holding remote Speedlites and reflectors. I saw some of their images before editing and they really had the contrast control thing down. And everybody was using Canon...
Jun 01, 2013 at 02:25 PM
p.1 #4So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Sir_Loin wrote:
Are you moaning again? Why don't you just sell you're Canon gear, invest in Nikon then moan in that forum and give us all a break!
He shot Nikon left to come back to Canon. He needs to get out of Photography.
Are you moaning again? Why don't you just sell you're Canon gear, invest in Nikon then moan in that forum and give us all a break!
He shot Nikon left to come back to Canon. He needs to get out of Photography.
Jun 01, 2013 at 02:29 PM
p.1 #5So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Uhm, go back to Nikon? Or you're doing it wrong if you're underexposing things by 2 stops.
Jun 01, 2013 at 02:35 PM
p.1 #6So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
form wrote:
...
I'm not just posting because I'm some stupid moron who should be exposing properly anyway ...
... Make for a great poll subject methinks...
...
I'm not just posting because I'm some stupid moron who should be exposing properly anyway ...
... Make for a great poll subject methinks... Jun 01, 2013 at 02:47 PM
p.1 #7So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
OTOH, I would vote in the pool proposed by good doggy.
Edited on Jun 01, 2013 at 03:03 PM · View previous versions
Jun 01, 2013 at 03:00 PM
p.1 #8So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
I don't have a problem exposing landscapes, architecture, people, etc. I don't raise shadows or drop highlights more that about 0.5 stop on average in LR4 with Highlight and Shadow sliders, sometimes actually increasing Clarity slightly.
Expose to the right and don't try raising shadows. If you want them raised, do like Gochugogi suggests: use old school techniques to light the shadows.
Learn your craft and stop whining.
Expose to the right and don't try raising shadows. If you want them raised, do like Gochugogi suggests: use old school techniques to light the shadows.
Learn your craft and stop whining.
Jun 01, 2013 at 03:02 PM
p.1 #9So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Form, I feel bad for your "problems" getting images you don't like, but would please 99% of normal photographers. You need help, and I mean professional help.
Jun 01, 2013 at 03:14 PM
p.1 #10So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Sir_Loin wrote:
Are you moaning again? Why don't you just sell you're Canon gear, invest in Nikon then moan in that forum and give us all a break!
+100000000000000000000000
Are you moaning again? Why don't you just sell you're Canon gear, invest in Nikon then moan in that forum and give us all a break!
+100000000000000000000000
Jun 01, 2013 at 03:22 PM
p.1 #11So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
If nothing else, form, you really know how to start threads that rack up the page views and replies... 
Jun 01, 2013 at 03:28 PM
p.1 #12So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
"There is one topic peremptorily forbidden to all well-bred, to all rational mortals, namely, their distempers. If you have not slept, or if you have slept, or if you have headache, or sciatica, or leprosy, or thunder-stroke, I beseech you, by all angels, to hold your peace, and not pollute the morning." -- Emerson
Jun 01, 2013 at 03:43 PM
p.1 #13So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
How many threads can you start about the 5D3? And whine about it every time Jun 01, 2013 at 03:54 PM
p.1 #14So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
form wrote:
I have been using Canon for..ever. In my case, that means about 7-8 years, back when I first started playing with dSLRs.
How did things work out for you when you were using a film camera?
I have been using Canon for..ever. In my case, that means about 7-8 years, back when I first started playing with dSLRs.
How did things work out for you when you were using a film camera?
Jun 01, 2013 at 04:12 PM
p.1 #15So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Controlling the total dynamic range of the scene is all part of being a photographer. If you need to use flashes/diffusers/reflectors, then use them.
If you don't know how to use them, then learn. There's plenty of material out there.
This has always been a limitation ever since the dawn of photography. The eye has always had a larger dynamic range than the film/sensor. Hollywood have been doing it forever, with a truckload of lighting gear - even from the early days of movies in the 1930s.
And good photographers work around the limitation by learning their craft, even with technology that is less advanced than what we have today. And yes, good lighting control is even required with the D800.
If you don't know how to use them, then learn. There's plenty of material out there.
This has always been a limitation ever since the dawn of photography. The eye has always had a larger dynamic range than the film/sensor. Hollywood have been doing it forever, with a truckload of lighting gear - even from the early days of movies in the 1930s.
And good photographers work around the limitation by learning their craft, even with technology that is less advanced than what we have today. And yes, good lighting control is even required with the D800.
Jun 01, 2013 at 04:30 PM
p.1 #16So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
I always find it amusing to be around people who constantly complain about the performance of the gear they own. 95% of the time its the nut behind the shutter, wheel, trigger, etc that is the missing link.
I also have to admit that it brings a smile to my face when someone else picks up the same camera / keys / firearm and magically the problems go away.
I also have to admit that it brings a smile to my face when someone else picks up the same camera / keys / firearm and magically the problems go away.
Jun 01, 2013 at 04:44 PM
p.1 #17So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
FWIW...he has good work....but the magic pill he wants...it doesn't exist. So the only to do would be to expose the shot right so you're doing minimum recovery in post.
Jun 01, 2013 at 04:51 PM
p.1 #18So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
mitesh wrote:
If nothing else, form, you really know how to start threads that rack up the page views and replies...
Oh i was thinking the same thing...a ploy to direct more people to his website.
If nothing else, form, you really know how to start threads that rack up the page views and replies...
Oh i was thinking the same thing...a ploy to direct more people to his website.
Jun 01, 2013 at 04:53 PM
p.1 #19So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Form, you are clearly not happy with your camera and somehow your feelings are making your rants somehow subjective.
You are right the 5DIII is not as good as the D800 for DR
You are right the D800 is not flawless like any other camera
I do weddings in Ireland, where light is an issue and things get very nasty. The 5DIII is a camera that works for me, the IQ is very good and I'm living its AF performance. I rarely had any trouble wit high ISO and DR either.
What counts is that it does not work for you.
P.S: Come back for the 5DIV, I will welcome you back without doubt.
Shoot frenzy
Aaron
You are right the 5DIII is not as good as the D800 for DR
You are right the D800 is not flawless like any other camera
I do weddings in Ireland, where light is an issue and things get very nasty. The 5DIII is a camera that works for me, the IQ is very good and I'm living its AF performance. I rarely had any trouble wit high ISO and DR either.
What counts is that it does not work for you.
P.S: Come back for the 5DIV, I will welcome you back without doubt.
Shoot frenzy
Aaron
Jun 01, 2013 at 04:58 PM
p.1 #20So, Uh...Canon shadow noise?
Sunny Sra wrote:
Oh i was thinking the same thing...a ploy to direct more people to his website.
It got me thinking- if I had a dollar for every page view his last thread got, I could actually afford the new 200-400L and a refurb 5D3 to go with it! Oh, the 5D3 is plenty good for my purposes
mitesh wrote
If nothing else, form, you really know how to start threads that rack up the page views and replies...It got me thinking- if I had a dollar for every page view his last thread got, I could actually afford the new 200-400L and a refurb 5D3 to go with it! Oh, the 5D3 is plenty good for my purposes
Jun 01, 2013 at 04:59 PM