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Archive 2013 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Pixel Perfect
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p.16 #1 · p.16 #1 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
On this very forum I heard of a little 80 year old lady who attended a bird-flight photography seminar in the States, and upon "graduation" she was able to shoot 500 f/4 IS MkI (4 kg) handheld "all day". Just saying.

You've done well then Petal. The original super nanny. I hope you don't sound like Fran Drescher however.

Jun 17, 2013 at 12:41 AM

birdsasart
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p.16 #2 · p.16 #2 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

big country wrote:
Art,

Are there differences in handholding the 500 ii vs the 200-400?

i read on birds as art blog, that you got tired of hand holding the 500 ii after 90 minutes or so. Do you feel you could do the 200-400 for this amount of time or longer? if so what are the differences between the two (balanced differently, etc)? I am curious to your thoughts as the 200-400 is one pound heavier than the 500 ii.

Thanks, jason

Hi Jason, I know that it does not make a lot of sense but I found it easier to hand hold the 2-4 than to hand hold the 500 II. I am pretty sure that the difference in length has a lot to do with that. Do know that in the Galapagos I will be doing a lot of sitting using my left knee as a support and in Africa I will often be resting the lens on an upside down BLUBB filled with local beans. I'll be hand holding the 2-4 for action and for flight should we be lucky enough to find vultures coming to a kill.

That said there will be times hand holding the 200-400 when the lactic acid kicks in....

Jun 17, 2013 at 05:20 AM

burningheart
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p.16 #3 · p.16 #3 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

I can't comment on comparison of the 200-400 and the 500 mkii, but I found the 200-400 very nicely balanced and comfortable to shoot with or carry. I never noticed the weight of the lens at all.

When not shooting I was carrying with my right hand around the foot or on the camera's grip and then had both the lens and camera strap around my wrist. When I was in the bird aviary shooting the owls for about half an hour I was repitively raising up and lowering the camera and lens as people passed by and I just found the weight never bothered me even though my right wrist essentially carried the weight burden all day.

In comparison to my Canon 200 1.8, 500 4.5 and Nikon 200-400 VR1 which are all lighter in weight I always found those lenses required rest from time to time both carrying and shooting.

Canon IMHO did a terrific job on the weight distribution and although on paper it is heavier it just seemed lighter to me.

Jun 17, 2013 at 01:54 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #4 · p.16 #4 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

burningheart wrote:
Canon IMHO did a terrific job on the weight distribution and although on paper it is heavier it just seemed lighter to me.

Robert, do yourself a favour and test-use 500 f/4.5 and 200-400 side to side. If 200-400 still seems lighter to you, then your lens copy might have an anti-gravitron feature built in it.

Jun 17, 2013 at 02:39 PM

birdsasart
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p.16 #5 · p.16 #5 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
Robert, do yourself a favour and test-use 500 f/4.5 and 200-400 side to side. If 200-400 still seems lighter to you, then your lens copy might have an anti-gravitron feature built in it.

I have the same anti-gravitation feature in my 200-400; it is much easier to hand hold than the 500 II that I sold just before I bough the big zoom. I believe that it has to do with length of the lenses and the resulting torque....

Jun 17, 2013 at 02:41 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #6 · p.16 #6 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

birdsasart wrote:
I have the same anti-gravitation feature in my 200-400; it is much easier to hand hold than the 500 II that I sold just before I bough the big zoom. I believe that it has to do with length of the lenses and the resulting torque....

Can't argue with a personal perception.

However, in Robert's case he can do an immediate/direct test to verify his perception of weight, because he's got 500 f/4.5 and 200-400 in his collection now.

To me 200-400L felt they way it should have been: its handholding difficulty I placed somewhere between 500 II and 400 II. The only thing that bugged me about 200-400L was the stock Canon foot which is quite high profile, as I am not used to that, and it caused me some lens control problems on fast lateral swings. I'd like to try using 200-400L handheld with a better low profile replacement foot, as that should improve the lens control. However, that will have to wait a few months now.

My 500 II is equipped with a Jobu replacement foot which is lower profile than the stock foot, and it comes closer to the lens mount......both of those features help with handheld use of the lens. Unfortunately, Canon have designed the 500 II tripod mount ring/foot a lot towards the front of the lens, thus causing a few balancing/handling problems.

Jun 17, 2013 at 03:05 PM

birdsasart
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p.16 #7 · p.16 #7 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
Can't argue with a personal perception.

However, in Robert's case he can do an immediate/direct test to verify his perception of weight, because he's got 500 f/4.5 and 200-400 in his collection now.

To me 200-400L felt they way it should have been: its handholding difficulty I placed somewhere between 500 II and 400 II. The only thing that bugged me about 200-400L was the stock Canon foot which is quite high profile, as I am not used to that, and it caused me some lens control problems on fast lateral swings. I'd like to try using 200-400L handheld with...Show more →

The 4th Generation Design CRX-5 Low Foot fits the 200-400 perfectly. We have them in stock. E-mail me if you would like a link.

ps: I do not see how the position of the tripod collar on the 500 II has anything to do with hand holding as I will always be holding a big lens way forward of that....

Jun 17, 2013 at 03:19 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #8 · p.16 #8 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

birdsasart wrote:
ps: I do not see how the position of the tripod collar on the 500 II has anything to do with hand holding as I will always be holding a big lens way forward of that....

There you go, now you have your own answer to the lactic acid buildup.

If your left upper arm/elbow is not resting on your ribcage while supporting the lens & shooting, the effort and resulting fatigue, and camera/lens stability, all suffer.

Clearly, if your lens support point is closer to the front of the lens, then that makes it more difficult to maintain your upper arm/elbow contact with your trunk.

Jun 17, 2013 at 03:29 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #9 · p.16 #9 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

birdsasart wrote:
The 4th Generation Design CRX-5 Low Foot fits the 200-400 perfectly. We have them in stock. E-mail me if you would like a link.

I will get their CR-80 for 200-400L. The best foot ever in my books.

Jun 17, 2013 at 03:33 PM

Tom_W
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p.16 #10 · p.16 #10 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Peter, you seem to hold your lenses like a fine rifle!

Jun 17, 2013 at 03:39 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #11 · p.16 #11 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Tom_W wrote:
Peter, you seem to hold your lenses like a fine rifle!

Tommy, that is exactly what guided me in tinkering with my lens handheld use over these years.......I have tried to learn by watching sports rifle shooters and marksmen, and reading about their technique, because they have that skill developed to perfection looong before the long lens photography came about.

Jun 17, 2013 at 03:53 PM

birdsasart
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p.16 #12 · p.16 #12 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Jun 17, 2013 at 03:59 PM

Tom_W
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p.16 #13 · p.16 #13 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

That's exactly the technique that I used here with the 400/2.8, 2X, and 1.4X stacked (somewhat heavy). We were walking along the trail, my friend carrying the tripod, and I the camera and lens, when we came upon this Heron lounging about (pardon if I didn't use the 200-400, but I don't have one)...

Jun 17, 2013 at 04:02 PM

birdsasart
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p.16 #14 · p.16 #14 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Mis-communication

I am looking for an image of you holding the lens "like a fine rifle" or a description of same.

Jun 17, 2013 at 04:09 PM

Tom_W
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p.16 #15 · p.16 #15 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

No miscommunication intended, I was just responding to Peter.

Jun 17, 2013 at 04:14 PM

StillFingerz
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p.16 #16 · p.16 #16 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
Tommy, that is exactly what guided me in tinkering with my lens handheld use over these years.......I have tried to learn by watching sports rifle shooters and marksmen, and reading about their technique, because they have that skill developed to perfection looong before the long lens photography came about.

Peter, your study for hand holding is quite interesting and is actually something I employ even with my short teles. Learned in the summer of 1970 up in Washington state, my grandfather introduced me to a scoped .40-06 which was one powerful bit of rifle for a 13 year old.

My grandfather an expert marksman, some of his long shots were absolutely stunning, his mastery of distance and wind amazing, his teaching/patience my guide. After 3 months of hunting, a few fowl, deer and elk, my approach, breathing, trigger press were just beginning to steady/smooth out...calmness, stillness, deliberateness is so important...even today that early training helps greatly when hand holding.

Although I've no grip, I cradle longer lenses in crippled hand much like I would with rifle; either in palm or the inside of my left elbow. When drawing down/up or panning, calming self, breath, maintaining a steady swing before taking a shot, all works the same, except with slr/dslr in hand there's no kick-back and sore shoulder...or temporary loss of hearing.

An interesting summer 1970 was, my vacation up north was the 1st and last time shooting with rifle in hand, near summer's end a trip to Tempe AZ and a visit with my 2nd grandfather turned into another type of hunting, that of the elusive desert landscape. A scoped .40-06 was replaced with a Yashica Electro 35 Rangefinder and a Polaroid Land camera, it was a type of shooting more suited to my nature and 43yrs later still excites. Most fortunate am I to have such wonderful teachers.

You, Db, Gunzorro, Jefferrson and other FM members have rekindled my BIF and other action/racing passions...and are quite the inspiring teachers/mentors!

BIF have been in eye sight for quite a while, the occasional FBOF; fast bird on foot, as well, roadrunners are tough to shoot...with anything hand held...and they do leave a substantial dust trail as they rocket by you...but they don't go BEEP BEEP...guess that's just in cartoon

Jun 17, 2013 at 04:26 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #17 · p.16 #17 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

birdsasart wrote:
Care to share what that looks like?

Arthur, that would cost you some bucks.

Youtube is free, and they have a good number of precision rifle firing videos ...both free standing and kneeling position videos.
Kneeling marksman's position is my frequent choice for stationary and slow moving targets. The only problem is that getting up and down repeatedly tends to get tiring on some of us old boys.

Actually, doing just about anything physical gets to be tiring these days.

Jun 17, 2013 at 05:20 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #18 · p.16 #18 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

StillFingerz wrote:
You, Db, Gunzorro, Jefferrson and other FM members have rekindled my BIF and other action/racing passions...and are quite the inspiring teachers/mentors!

BIF have been in eye sight for quite a while, the occasional FBOF; fast bird on foot, as well, roadrunners are tough to shoot...with anything hand held...and they do leave a substantial dust trail as they rocket by you...but they don't go BEEP BEEP...guess that's just in cartoon

Jerry, in the end, it really matters not how we do things, as long as....

(1) we are having fun
(2) we get the desired result.
(3) the activity is not physically taxing where that could be avoided.

Whenever possible I will always deploy a pod, because I do not like having backaches from swinging heavy lenses.

Jun 17, 2013 at 05:26 PM

PetKal
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p.16 #19 · p.16 #19 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

Tom_W wrote:
That's exactly the technique that I used here with the 400/2.8, 2X, and 1.4X stacked (somewhat heavy). We were walking along the trail, my friend carrying the tripod, and I the camera and lens, when we came upon this Heron lounging about (pardon if I didn't use the 200-400, but I don't have one)...

Tommy, that is a great IQ shot which also shows that your 400 f/2.8 IS is a fine instrument. I do not think you could do much better with the MkII, except it would have been easier on your joints.

Jun 17, 2013 at 05:28 PM

Tom_W
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p.16 #20 · p.16 #20 · Hands-on: EF 200-400mm f/4L IS USM Extender 1.4X

PetKal wrote:
Tommy, that is a great IQ shot which also shows that your 400 f/2.8 IS is a fine instrument. I do not think you could do much better with the MkII, except it would have been easier on your joints.

I don't see a 400/2.8 II in my future either, mainly because the toll on the wallet is just too high. And this 400 is a beauty in itself.

Almost left it at home in favor of the 300/2.8 this week because of the weight, but I'm trying to get some decent eagle images and from what I've heard, I really need maximum reach to get them. Which means, 400/2.8 and various teleconverters. I was fortunate to have my friend with me, hauling the tripod. His help came in handy.

Jun 17, 2013 at 05:37 PM

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