I just shot a few frames with my very simple Leica 35 f2 ASPH lens (on NEX-5N) and I can't believe
how amazing this lens is. It has so much character, but in the same time clarity, color, OMG
Why can't a company, the guys who produced this gem come up with an equally great camera to put it on?
snowboarder wrote:
I just shot a few frames with my very simple Leica 35 f2 ASPH lens (on NEX-5N) and I can't believe
how amazing this lens is. It has so much character, but in the same time clarity, color, OMG
Why can't a company, the guys who produced this gem come up with an equally great camera to put it on?
i hear the leica mp is a pretty great camera.
it's the silicon that's slowing them down. i don't think leica can make an AF lens line up for a FF mirrorless (without doubling the company's size and getting completely new facilities). do you think there are enough of us that want a manual focus FF liveview camera for it to be worth it for them to spend the r&d and retooling costs versus just continuing to make as many m240s as they can?
edit: that last question is a serious one. how big is the market for $5000-$7000 FF evf based mirrorless that plays well with rangefinder wides? is it bigger or smaller than the market for the m240 and how much overlap is there between those two markets?
I actually looked at the X Vario specs for the first time today and other than price and slowish zoom, its a nice camera, same gestalt as the X2 and Leica M. Reading Sean Reid's writeup comparing the Vario to Digilux 2, it now make sense to me. The focus ring with end stops is what I wished my RX1 had. Simple dials for aperture and shutter speed which X100 users really like. Maybe I will buy a used one 1 year later
joe88 wrote:
It would make an even more awesome camera if it could come with a digital back
and even more awesome as it is now but with a kodak shop in every corner like 20 yrs ago
sebboh wrote:
edit: that last question is a serious one. how big is the market for $5000-$7000 FF evf based mirrorless that plays well with rangefinder wides? is it bigger or smaller than the market for the m240 and how much overlap is there between those two markets?
It's only $5-7K because you are assuming Leica.
They are too small and too stupid to produce anything by themselves right now IMO. They should really
start talking to Sony/Olympus. Their only hope is some kind of cooperation to have a modern camera
made by someone who knows how to do it and them concentrate on lenses only.
Look, are you really gonna get the new M with all those cr@ppy electronics form the XIXth century
or you're gonna get the new FF NEX? Some old guys will keep buying the rangefinder stuff, but for how long?
Instead of wasting limited resources, stick to lenses. The most logical solution.
If Sony releases a FF NEX, the entire market of us, crazy people will be filled. No need for a new Leica...
mortyb wrote:
I can guarantee though that I'll never lose my normal, rational thinking should I get a Leica.
Have you watched or read Lord of the Ring? The camera will eventually consume you :P
The X Vario is actually an affordable Leica, but I'd prefer X2 over it. f6.4 at 46mm (on 1.5x crop) seems really limiting. A blurry pictures is much worse than a "not tack sharp" picture.
The Sony A850 and now the Canon 6D shows FF cameras can be much more affordable. Remove the mirror, prism and make them a mirrorless will further lower the cost.
snowboarder wrote:
It's only $5-7K because you are assuming Leica.
They are too small and too stupid to produce anything by themselves right now IMO. They should really
start talking to Sony/Olympus. Their only hope is some kind of cooperation to have a modern camera
made by someone who knows how to do it and them concentrate on lenses only.
Look, are you really gonna get the new M with all those cr@ppy electronics form the XIXth century
or you're gonna get the new FF NEX? Some old guys will keep buying the rangefinder stuff, but for how long?
Instead of wasting limited resources, stick to lenses. The most logical solution.
If Sony releases a FF NEX, the entire market of us, crazy people will be filled. No need for a new Leica... ...Show more →
with all the advances in automatic transmission with nifty paddle shifting and CVT and all that, why even consider manual transmission, yeah? :-/
"Look, are you really gonna get the new M with all those cr@ppy electronics form the XIXth century
or you're gonna get the new FF NEX? Some old guys will keep buying the rangefinder stuff, but for how long?"
I will take the M. every time. make it 10th generation FF NEX vs the current M9 and I'll take the M9. and, no, not because I'm a Leica fanboy...i prefer the rangefinder viewfinder/focusing than anything else out there, including the highly-regarded "hybrid" viewfinder of the X-series. that's my opinion, though; i don't preach it as some universal truth and shove it down another person's throat.
Seriously, man, that series of bold statements you wrote here just shows your arrogance...you need to take it down a notch.
snowboarder wrote:
It's only $5-7K because you are assuming Leica.
They are too small and too stupid to produce anything by themselves right now IMO. They should really
start talking to Sony/Olympus. Their only hope is some kind of cooperation to have a modern camera
made by someone who knows how to do it and them concentrate on lenses only.
Look, are you really gonna get the new M with all those cr@ppy electronics form the XIXth century
or you're gonna get the new FF NEX? Some old guys will keep buying the rangefinder stuff, but for how long?
Instead of wasting limited resources, stick to lenses. The most logical solution. If Sony releases a FF NEX, the entire market of us, crazy people will be filled. No need for a new Leica... ...Show more →
the part i highlighted above sounds like a pretty compelling reason for leica not to produce the camera we want. i will believe that sony is producing a FF NEX when i see it though, i'm not convinced sony has a real (or realistic) plan regarding future cameras and their role in the market. if they do finally give us the nex-9 we want who knows whether it will play well with leica wide angle lenses? it seems a lot more likely that sony will release a beefed up (physically) FF nex and release some AF lenses from zeiss with it. that's not really what i'm looking for, but it'd probably sell a lot better than a MF only leica mirrorless.
leica is a boutique brand and has no desire to be a mass producer. when they start having trouble selling their lenses (i hear rumors things are slowing down?), perhaps then they'll start thinking about whether adding a new camera or forming a partnership with a modern camera producer is a good idea. the market for crazy manual focus people isn't that big though so prices would still be very high and i doubt sony or olympus would see a lot of opportunity for themselves in such a deal without their own lens line to hawk.
There absolutely is a place in the market for boutique producers. Look at MF cameras, for example. I also totally understand that some people love to shoot with a rangefinder and thus are driven to Leica. I understand that Leica are well made and very nice to use, and give their owners a form of pleasure they don't get from a Canikony.
What I totally don't dig is when the penalty to get these attractive features becomes massive. Such as no real-world LiveView on the spanking new M because they re-used a 5-year old Fuji processor. And when Leica design the expensive Mini M, without rangefinder, it comes awfully close to "other cameras", read Sony, Fuji. Yes, it is still well made and probably very nice to use. But the sensor is no longer very young (NEX 5N vintage). And, while the lens is probably a fine lens, why it is specced lower than a kit lens for aperture is beyond me. Min aperture at f:6.4 and diffraction setting in at f:8.0... Plus, shooting portraits wide open to get background separation at f:6.4... gimme a break! That equates with a camera that can't very well do a major part of street photography, it self a territory that Leica lovers love.
Sure some people will buy them, be happy with them and make nice pictures. But we all know that some products add to a brand's reputation and gestalt, while others are carried by them. Release too many of the latter, too few of the former, and there comes a time when the brand is but an empty shell, redolent of glories past.
If that makes me a hateful Leica-basher, so be it, though I think not. Had the M had a decent LiveView, I'd probably own one by now, and had the Mini M been competitive with NEX/RX-1, I would have checked it out to see if it brought big enough a smile to my face to buy one. Instead I just shake my head in wonderment. What can the designers who cooked up the specs have been thinking? That whatever they made would be sold anyhow, just because of how superior Leica are?
In all honesty, IF the Nex 9 is ever introduced, and IF it's sensor turns out to be problem free with my ZM lenses, I will be the first to buy one. I still prefer the RF experience but I would love to have a LV camera with EVF for certain subjects. That is why I am happy that the M 240 is not yet widely available. I am sure we will know something about the Nex 9 before the end of this year. It would be a nice companion to my M9.
joe88 wrote:
Michael, I like you site, read your lens reviews and other writeups. Let the detractors do what they want and not let it affect you. Cheers!
Totally agree about the small aperture vs optical performance. My ZM 85 f/4 may be optically excellent and quite small and light, but the reason I didn't use it often is the small aperture which is very limiting in many circumstances. Of course I had to buy the ZM 85 f/2 which is even better at comparable apertures but I have to put up with this monstruosity of a lens, huge, heavy, very unbalanced on my M9. There is always a price to pay.
