I dont think Leica is overpriced, its just expensive. Tho it depends on particular model.
S-system or M-system is fine, X-system is overpriced, rebranded Panasonic is usually same price but its bundled with expensive Adobe software (what they will do with cloud?) which increases price.
IMHO, if you ever do mistake of having your hands on S-system, you will pretty soon realize it really is worth it.. And unfortunately bit out of reach for poor part of FM. (me included)
Wasn't Leica's sales goal stated to be around 15,000 units over the entire production run of the M9? IIRC, they more than double or tripled that prior to the M's release. And the ME is still available...
Back in 2010-11 when one couldn't find a new Lux or Cron in stock anywhere, Leica held prices steady, though they could have followed the airline model of increasing prices to match supply and demand (essentially what *bay resellers/speculators did).
For many I think the expense is a hurdle they're willing to overcome so long as there is reasonable confidence the product will retain resale value over time. This seems to work for lenses, but for cameras, I don't think there is any reasonable expectation for high resale, at least not after a couple years once demand has been met and the product nears end of life.
As for Jono's sample images - I think they look reasonable considering they're SOOC Jpegs.
wiseguy010 wrote:
I think all Leica bodies are overpriced when you look at the technical specifications. You can get that for a fraction of the costs with other brands.
Leica lenses are very expensive but not overpriced IMO as the quality is more than excellent.
If you're a rangefinder shooter, an M is the only available digital option, so you can't get that from other companies.
wiseguy010 wrote:
I think all Leica bodies are overpriced when you look at the technical specifications. You can get that for a fraction of the costs with other brands.
Leica lenses are very expensive but not overpriced IMO as the quality is more than excellent.
You can in some ways, but in other ways, only a camera like a M9 is going to give you the real RF experience because there are no other digital RF's on the market that I know of.
You can adapt a M mount lens to a wide variety of cameras, but your stuck using a magnified liveview to focus rather than a quick and surprisingly accurate (when in spec) RF mechanism, plus an OVF, no crop factor, proper offset microlenses to allow the use of wide angles without color shifts etc.
There are lots of cameras that have way more features, IBIS, HD video, AF, touch LCD's etc etc, but really if you want a digital RF Leica is the only game in town and as such, they can (and do) set their own price.
I've owned X100's, XPro1's, NEX's with adapters, m4/3 with adapters and also a M8.2 and M9, and while the X's can give a RF like shooting experience, they are still pretty different than using a real RF.
Likewise, while you can put M glass on a NEX or what have you, its again nothing remotely like shooting a RF.
I certainly don't think a camera like the M9 is versatile or makes much sense for most people's needs unless you really do want a RF, as there are so many cool cameras for much less money, but couldn't call it overpriced, because there isn't anything to compare the price too.
Only if there was a true RF, say a digital Zeiss Ikon with a Sony sensor and M mount, which sold for $2999, could you say a Leica was overpriced because there was something else giving you all the same features, and maybe even more, for half the price.
wiseguy010 wrote:
I think all Leica bodies are overpriced when you look at the technical specifications. You can get that for a fraction of the costs with other brands.
certainly can't get the sensor size to body size ratio with other brands. or a digital rangefinder at all let alone a FF one.
wiseguy010 wrote:
I think all Leica bodies are overpriced when you look at the technical specifications. You can get that for a fraction of the costs with other brands.
Leica lenses are very expensive but not overpriced IMO as the quality is more than excellent.
You are looking at the digital specifications.
I heard it is really expensive to build the rangefinder mechanism. It is a fragile mechanism and need really precise fitting making it expensive.
Further the body is build of brass, machined out into the top and bottom plate. In every thing you can feel its made with quality.
I never seen this in body's for a fraction of the price.
Add to this it is the only full frame digital rangefinder and I don't find it to be overpriced at all.
Well, everybody is entitled to their opinions. IMHO, the M9, MM or M240 are overpriced precisely because Leica Ms are the only DRF available. Neither the performances, nor the specifications, reliability, etc are what I'd spect in a $7000 FF camera, be it RF, SLR, SLT or whatever. (saying this as a former owner of M2, M6, M7 and M8 )
artur5 wrote:
Neither the performances, nor the specifications, reliability, etc are what I'd spect in a $7000 FF camera, be it RF, SLR, SLT or whatever.
It depends...made where? Europe or Asia?
artur5 wrote:
Well, everybody is entitled to their opinions. IMHO, the M9, MM or M240 are overpriced precisely because Leica Ms are the only DRF available. Neither the performances, nor the specifications, reliability, etc are what I'd spect in a $7000 FF camera, be it RF, SLR, SLT or whatever. (saying this as a former owner of M2, M6, M7 and M8 )
Easy solution of course is if you don't like a given product, regardless of the price point, is to not buy it. Only things that companies really care about is sales. If it doesn't sell, then they either change the price point and/or change the product.
What do you think a fair price for a M9 should be ?
What exactly should a $7000 camera be then in your eyes ?
So the incredibly slow (slowest ever?) zoom in confirmed. Now it is a fact that Andrew "snowboarder" is not a great fan of Leica cameras, but this is ridiculous even by fanboi standards. Unless tomorrow brings something entirely different, Leica has now officially joined the endangered species list. They need to be saved from themselves!
It is an embarrass announcement. Just want reminder you guys it is not for you but people want a zoom travel camera with red dot. We should not disagree that less than 50%(very conservative) of Leica revenue are from photographers/serious hobbits.
Let’s assume some richer amateurs enter Leica store, once they see all $3000+ lens and $7000”+ body around and found this $3000 ‘bargain’ can zoom from 28-70, which one you will pick. BTW, what is 'aperture' means?
(me included)