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Archive 2013 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100

  
 
binary visions
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p.2 #1 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Mescalamba wrote:
I think you kinda missed other points except user error.


There were no other points.

The only relevant point was that the OP was not understanding how the operations of his camera were resulting in an inappropriate exposure setting.

That's it. There was no problem that a better camera would have fixed.



May 16, 2013 at 06:37 PM
Patrick Lanius
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p.2 #2 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Back on topic to the OP's questions........ your settings were too optimistic for your ambient lighting conditions, as others have pointed out. In your second post, you expressed a bit of frustration that the camera did not abide by the minimum shutter value you programmed into the Auto ISO settings.

From page 81 of the D7100 manual........
"Shutter speeds slower than the minimum value may be used if optimum exposure can not be achieved at the ISO sensitivity value selected for Maximum sensitivity."

So, the camera is programmed to do the user a solid by getting a correctly exposed image by resorting to slower shutter settings than programmed.

My advice would be to take a bit more control over your camera. But instead of going full manual on everything, first try using the manual exposure mode and Auto ISO. Set your aperture and shutter to desired and observe the ISO the camera is calling for. As darkness sets in, you will be chased into larger apertures, a slower shutter and higher ISO's. Just keep watching the ISO value the camera is calling for and keep adjusting shutter and aperture down to keep ISO reasonable. Once you get to your largest aperture and the slowest shutter you can accept, then your only option is adjusting ISO.

I routinely shoot sports at 1/500 and get outstanding results. YMMV. But either way, your camera will select the ISO that's required for your lighting. From what you told us, it would appear that you were about 2 stops off on your settings. So at 1/500, I would expect ISO's to be in the 2000-4000 range at that field. And BTW, that's about the same exposure as many of the fields I routinely shoot on.

And addressing your other question, using AF-C or AF-S does not make a difference for the exposure discussion above. Good luck!



May 16, 2013 at 08:27 PM
pwoody
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p.2 #3 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Great stuff again, thank you. I will put your advice to work this evening, as I am shooting another game tonight and it will get dark at after haltime. Great replies from everyone and a great forum! Love it. Thanks again


May 17, 2013 at 07:23 AM
Trevorma
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p.2 #4 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Post some of the shots from the game.....even if you think they might not be your best it will help others here point you in the best direction.




May 17, 2013 at 07:44 AM
Grantland
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p.2 #5 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


pwoody wrote:
Thanks. I never contemplated that a given combination wasn't possible and that the camera would simply decide on its own. This is a wake up call. Thanks for your help guys. I'll try manual settings for the next game I shoot.


when I shoot sports or most anything at night under lights I set my ISO to whatever and ONLY use manual.

Let me add that I run across many parents who try to use their camera the way you did and it never consistently works. They become very frustrated and I try to tell them to learn how to shoot manual in these conditions. A learning curve for sure but if you want consistent shots you must learn how to use manual.

keep aperture on f/2.8 then adjust ISO and SS as needed.

good luck



May 17, 2013 at 07:49 AM
Frogfish
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p.2 #6 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


My favourite settings for most sports :

Manual Exposure : Start by setting auto-ISO at 100 minimum and the maximum you'll be happy with (better to have a grainy shot that is sharp than just a nice clean blur), say 6,400 or even 12,800 if you can clean them up for a shot good enough for your use (local paper, school mag, internet, 8x10 print).

So pick say 1/1000, f4 to start and see where that gets you by chimping a few test shots. Not good ? Lower either/both your S/S and aperture until you are getting the best that is possible under those conditions. That might end up being 1/400, f2.8 and 6,400 but at least you'll have sharp, though grainy, shots that give you something to work with in PP.

Carry a DoF calculator on your mobile phone, if you have an iPhone then I use TrueDoF which will give you what you need to know for the conditions, distances and settings you have to deal with, and so hint at the best shots to take.



May 17, 2013 at 09:45 AM
rjk55425
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p.2 #7 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


I don't have that body but when I shoot night sports, I set it at 1/500 min, 6400 ISO max and shoot wide open. The other night I shot in a place with such bad lighting, that even shooting at f2, max SS was 1/250 or less. Thats when its time to put away the gear.


May 17, 2013 at 12:48 PM
jbouchard
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p.2 #8 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


You are pushing the limits of what your camera can do. You need to learn how to maximize what you can get out of it.

Here's how auto ISO works (assuming you left the camera in P mode). Let's say you set it for minimum 1/250th, minimum ISO 800, maximum ISO 6400. In bright daylight you will get ISO 800, f8 and 1/1000th. As it gets darker, you get down to 1/250th and it opens your aperture to lens maximum. As it continues to get darker, your ISO climbs continuing with 1/250th. As it gets even darker, once your ISO hits the max, the camera has no choice but to lower the shutter speed.

My suggestion... try a bunch of different high ISOs and see what you get, in a structured experiment to help you get over the learning curve. Digital pictures are free, and hopefully nothing happens in the first part of the game while you were experimenting. For this exercise, turn off the AUTO ISO and just set ISO at 3200, aperture mode, with the lens wide open, so the shutter speed varies, and take a bunch of shots. You'll see what you are getting for shutter speeds. Then bump the ISO up to 6400, repeat, and so on, up until the maximum it will go, like to ISO+2 or whatever it's called. Once you've done that, turn on Auto ISO, and set it the max value for the rest of your game. You can't tell much from the little LCD on the camera, you really do need to bring them up on your computer at home so you can see them. Once you do, now you can decide what to set as maximum auto-ISO. I predict the answer will be leave it on the maximum value, but I think it's a valuable exercise to decide that yourself through your own experience, rather than blindly follow the advice of people on the internet.

After you have figured that out, the next thing to play with is your "noise reduction" setting and your sharpness setting. Noise Reduction smooths out some details along with the noise. Under "picture control" I think it is, you can select Standard, Neutral, etc, and inside that you can go one more screen to the right and play with individual settings like sharpness. If Noise reduction is killing your details, crank sharpness up to 5 or so. It's all about finding a happy balance. This noise reduction vs sharpness stuff only matters for the JPG's... for RAW you would do this in post. I generally shoot JPG + RAW. If I want to take a few of the best shots and process them from RAW I will, but I can't do that with a hundred shots, so it's still worth it to get the JPG's right to show to your family and friends.

When all else fails, you'll start underexposing to get shutter speeds you need. You can probably shoot about 2 stops under and still have a chance of saving them in post. When you brighten these up in post you will have noise, but it's better than blur. Some people prefer to set it to manual mode and shutter speed to a fixed value. In that case once you hit max ISO you get adjusting degrees of underexposure. Sometimes I do that, mostly I use A mode, set my exposure to about -2/3 and take my chances with the blur.

Good luck, and happy learning! if you get really frustrated, go into Scene and set it to Sports, and basically it will max things out automatically. No one has to know.



May 17, 2013 at 04:24 PM
pwoody
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p.2 #9 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Hey, guys. Thanks again for the info. I shot in Manual mode all evening. I slowly increased ISO from 1600 to 3200 as it got darker. Shot at 1/500 in f/2.8 AF-C. Much better than earlier in the week. Still some issues with whites being too bright, but all in all a good night considering how fast these guys move in college stadium lights I still have about 300 pics to edit, but I thought I'd give you an example of the results I was getting. All feedback is appreciated





1/500 f/2.8 ISO/3200 200mm




May 19, 2013 at 07:53 AM
trenchmonkey
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p.2 #10 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Much better, eh?! Your EC was +1/3 ...if you went with -1/3 or -2/3 (.7) the whites wouldn't be so hot
AND you'll have the bonus of a faster SS @ that ISO (might have to be in A mode for that to happen)



May 19, 2013 at 08:03 AM
pwoody
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p.2 #11 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Thanks for the feedback. EC is another gadget that I have just begun to play with. Boys' Latins uni's were black, and so was the space behind the goals. I adjusted the EC with the hopes it would help bring out the dark uni's. And yes, if you had seen my shots from a few nights ago, you would definitely see the improvement.


May 19, 2013 at 08:15 AM
ross attix
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p.2 #12 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


This may have been covered-I didn't read every reply. Other folks have given good advice already.

I second the advice to go full manual, if the lighting in the area of play is reasonably consistent. If not, it gets trickier.

At most games, the jersey colors from one team to the other are very dark vs very light. The nature of the composition tends to be one, two or three players' bodies dominating the frame. If you are using a weighted mode for metering (center, spot, whatever) the exposure will change by 2-3 stops because the jersey color in that weighted frame metering area goes from light grey to navy blue. Did the lighting change? NO, so the exposure should not change either.

In even lighting conditions, one exposure setting is all you need. Take the meter out of the equation once you have arrived at the look you want, and leave the camera locked into that exposure the whole time.

If the lighting is uneven that approach won't work great. I would probably try using AE, changing the metering mode to non-weighted (just standard "average", no matrix or any of that stuff) so the meter won't be so affected by one uniform color, and see how that looked in a pregame test.



May 19, 2013 at 09:03 AM
Crossczechfoto
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p.2 #13 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Hey, for what it's worth...

Bump that ISO up to 6400 (or around it) when you are shooting at f/2.8 and see what you can get for results.

Your camera can shoot sports just fine!

I have enough investment into glass and just because I can't purchase (2) D3s or D4 cameras (right now) doesn't mean I can't shoot with the big boys because I have a D7100.

The D7100 can hold it's own as a "sports camera" pretty darn well!!

Another suggestion I would like to add. If you can take or have your computer (or now even iPad) with you. You are going to be taking photos at different times of the night so you will have some sun at times and no sun at others.

As soon as you take a couple "metering" test shots, pull the card out and throw them into the "device" you are using and study the shots to see what is working for you.

If you aren't getting good (exposure) results at a certain speed and ISO combo. First bump the ISO up by +2/3 of a stop and then bump up the speed by +1/3 at a time after that. If that is helping then bump the speed up again by another +1/3 and switch back and forth until you get the result you are looking for.

A rule I have always been taught is even if you are getting sharp in focus pictures and they are a little underexposed that's ok. You can always brighten up photos that are sharp. You can't "sharpen" blurry photos that are properly exposed.

Here are a couple of results I got last night using the lighting at Sports Authority Field here in Denver covering the Outlaws.

EXIF data should be in the shots.

(D7100, 400mm f/2.8 VR combo)

Ross





















May 19, 2013 at 11:46 AM
Trevorma
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p.2 #14 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Crossczechfoto

Love the shots at ISO 5000!!! Looks like you have that D7100 firing well!



May 19, 2013 at 12:22 PM
Crossczechfoto
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p.2 #15 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


Thanks for the kind words.

(sorry to steal the thread a little but this is related)

I have been shooting sports for probably about 7 years now. I switched over to Nikon about 2 years ago and that's pretty much all I do.

I have owned the D3s (2 actually at one time) and several D700's at the same time also.

Yadda, yadda, yadda, long story short.

I sold them all to get longer and better glass (plus more of it) to cover not only sports but also portrait photos that are sports related.

After I got all the glass I needed I really didn't have enough left over to go back out and get a set of D4's and honestly the D700 it's a great camera but it's older technology for my needs.

So I invested in getting a D800 and either renting or "borrowing" camera bodies from NPS (Nikon Professional Services) until saving up to get other camera bodies.

I still to this point can't afford the D4 (yet) so I was suggested by another pro photog around here that the D7100 had the same focusing computer put into it as the D4 (at almost $5000 less). So I rented one and it was spot on.

So right now I use the D7100 as the main camera with a D800 as the backup.

Yes D800 as a sports backup!

They both work really well and don't let anyone else tell you otherwise. Later on this year I plan on getting a D4 because like I say moving into the "future" the latest is better than the older stuff.

But getting back to the D7100 it's a phenominal camera (if you don't shoot burst RAW though). If you shoot JPEG and put it into 1.3x mode it hits 7fps at that is plenty enough for shooting sports if you need too. It holds it's own very, very well against a lot of other cameras new and old(er). As you can see (I am still processing 1800 photos from last night) in the examples it will do very well with any glass.

OK back to our regularly scheduled post.

Ross



May 19, 2013 at 03:24 PM
pwoody
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p.2 #16 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


So shutter speeds of 1/1600 at high ISO's like 5000 are possible with the D7100, just not at f/2.8?


May 19, 2013 at 10:13 PM
trenchmonkey
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p.2 #17 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


It depends on the light.


May 20, 2013 at 07:49 AM
Crossczechfoto
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p.2 #18 · Issues with Shooting Sports at Night with a D7100


trenchmonkey wrote:
It depends on the light.


Exactly.

I have a lot of light when I am shooting at a professional football stadium. Depending on the place where I am shooting I typically will start with a certain speed I need to shoot at and then adjust my aperture and ISO's from there.

College and Pro sports for the most part I will shoot at 1/1250 or faster to stop the action.

I will keep that speed as a minimum and then I will adjust my Aperture and then my ISO last.

If I can shoot at F/4 I will. If I have to shoot at f/2.8 that's fine I lose some depth of field but that's what I am left with depending on the situation.

You can get by with 1/1000 speed and do pretty well. You will get some blur during the game but that's alright because you will stop most all the other action just fine.

Like I say this is the way I normally setup when I get to a new venue to test out what "limits" I have in order to get the shots I need.

Ross



May 22, 2013 at 03:36 PM
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