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Archive 2013 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

retrofocus
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p.3 #1 · p.3 #1 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

ggreene wrote:
Someone mentioned Thom Hogan in the thread and in his review he says something very similar. That the D800 is outside the sweetspot for most photographers. I have no doubt that Canon is looking at it in the same way. They will develop a response to it but it's not a high priority. If the low ISO DR/high MP market drove Canon sales you better believe they would have an answer to it. Business is business.

Same as the majority of people doesn't need a 5D Mk III or Mk II either in your interpretation of this review.

Mar 22, 2013 at 09:28 PM

IndyFab
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p.3 #2 · p.3 #2 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

The combo of the 800e and Zeiss 15 is outstanding, but wonder how far off the 5DIII would be from the 800e using the Zeiss 15.

Perhaps that would be a fairer assement

Mar 22, 2013 at 09:35 PM

Hulot
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p.3 #3 · p.3 #3 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Sneakyracer wrote:
I then tested the 24 PC-E against the 24 TSE. Here I don't know if the Nikon lens I got is representative of the lens or the lens I got is not up to par. But the Canon is the champ here no question about it. In the center its pretty equal but the Canon is really great edge to edge even when shifted. The Nikon was worse on the left side for some reason. It was not that pretty as I looked closer to the borders and edges.

In short I felt the Nikon was a great sensor looking for...Show more →

the PC-E is not as good as the TS-E. the camera has a PC correction hiddden in the menu which is quite nice to use and IMO is worth a try considering you get a 14-24 "PC AF"

I agree that the feel of the D800 could be better and it takes time to switch considering many buttons are placed differently. Some people want to have a D4x with the specs of the D800 or the D800 with a sRAW. Maybe for a wedding or sports photographer that would change something, for the rest most probably not.

the things I like about the body are the wheel on the grip which is in front of the shutter button and its always assigned to the aperture setting. I already have problems to find the wheel when I use a Canon.

The LV could be better and I also dont like the mechanical M-AF knob either, then there is the MLU

Mar 23, 2013 at 06:40 AM

Bones74
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p.3 #4 · p.3 #4 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

retrofocus wrote:
I mentioned it a while ago, but it might be a good new business model to allow putting together your own camera of single components ordering them online from Canon somehow similar you built your Dell PC for example. You could choose the AF system, the sensor, the quality of the viewfinder, LCD screen, CPU performance etc. Then everybody would be satisfied, sports and wedding shooters as well as fine art and landscape photographers. But I can't see that this will happen soon, likely we will all need to live with incremental and purposely delayed camera updates for marketing reasons....Show more →

Medium format bodies are a bit like this aren't they? Different digital backs are or even film backs can be mounted on some of them if I'm not mistaken. A customizable D/SLR with interchangeable upgradable hardware would be incredible

Mar 23, 2013 at 07:09 AM

Sneakyracer
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p.3 #5 · p.3 #5 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

IndyFab wrote:
The combo of the 800e and Zeiss 15 is outstanding, but wonder how far off the 5DIII would be from the 800e using the Zeiss 15.

Perhaps that would be a fairer assement

Hi, I made 20x30in prints from the 5D3/14L II and the D800e / 14-24 @14 / Zeiss 15 and honestly all were almost equally sharp the big difference was that in the Canon image the dark blue / black sky had a mottled appearance while in the Nikon it was super clean. That was the only real sign I saw that made the image look a touch lower quality.

So, Im thinking that if the Canon had cleaner shadows there would basically be no difference when making prints of this size. The detail was there even when looking close up, my face just inches away from the print at the distant objects in the scene.

That says a lot of the 14mm L II lens. I know that would NOT be the case with the Sigma 12-24 I also had or the older 14L.

Mar 24, 2013 at 06:55 AM

Gene_C
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p.3 #6 · p.3 #6 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

^^

But you probably could have cropped the D800/E image maybe another 50% still with clean skies.

gene

Mar 24, 2013 at 10:47 AM

Sneakyracer
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p.3 #7 · p.3 #7 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Yes, the biggest difference is the mottling on the sky on the 5D3 image.

Here are a few daylight tests I just did.

Conclussions:

The Best of the extreme wides is the Zeiss 15mm closely followed by the 14mm L II. They are very close. The 14-24mm @ 14 is a tad behind due to a hair more softness at the edges but primarily by the visible CA. You can't go wrong with the Zeiss. Day or night its the best. The darkness somewhat hid some of the flaws of the 14-24mm. In Canon mount its a much tougher choice since the 14mm L II is that good.

Between the 24mm TSE and the PC-E the Canon without a doubt is King. Less to no CA and little distortion plus less vignetting when shifting. Very very impressive performance and kinda confirms what I knew from using the lens the past few months. Its a stunning lens. I think its the best 24mm I have ever used. But, doing lens corrections in Lightroom makes the 24 PC-E better and a worthy lens.

Canon 5D3 14mm L II @ f9.0 iso 100

Nikon D800E 14-24mm @ 14mm f9.0 iso 100

Nikon D800E Zeiss 15mm @ f9.0 iso 100

Canon 5D3 14mm L II @ f9.0 iso 100 (CROP)

Nikon D800E 14-24mm @ 14mm f9.0 iso 100 (CROP)

Mar 24, 2013 at 04:55 PM

Sneakyracer
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p.3 #8 · p.3 #8 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

More images.

Nikon D800E Zeiss 15mm f9.0 iso 100 (CROP)

Canon 5D3 24mm TS-E II @ f9 Shifted up

Nikon D800E 24mm PC-E @ f9.0 Shifted up

Canon 5D3 24mm TS-E II @ f9 Shifted up (CROP)

Nikon D800E 24mm PC-E @ f9.0 Shifted up (CROP)

Mar 24, 2013 at 04:58 PM

Gene_C
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p.3 #9 · p.3 #9 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

the 24 PC-E is better than I thought it would be. It's a dated lens, from the same era as the older Canon 24 TS-E. It's really hard to see any difference in the distant views. I doubt that you'd see much difference in a print from any of the 3 including the zoom. Of course the Zoom may not be quite as good but look at the versatility. It's hard to overlook. I'm under the opinion if you want only a 14-15, that's what you should buy. Nice work, thanks for posting.

gene

Mar 24, 2013 at 06:19 PM

Sneakyracer
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p.3 #10 · p.3 #10 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Yeah, the 24 PC-E is a very good lens. Really only the borders close to the edge are at fault. Surprising since it has a larger image circle.

I like the 14-24's image quality. But, its a very large lens thats very front heavy and hard to filter. The 14mm L II is my favorite here. Has outstanding IQ and its small and compact and well balanced. In Nikon I would pick the Zeiss.

One thing of note. I forgot how small the nikon lens mount is. It kinda limits the design of some lenses and makes them harder to mount imho.

Mar 24, 2013 at 06:55 PM

Sneakyracer
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p.3 #11 · p.3 #11 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Ok, just did this "Landscape Test" during a typical sunrise/sunset situation. I did not use a grad filter. This tests highlight and shadow recovery a bit.

First The Nikon then The Canon, before and after adjustments in LR.

Nikon D800E 24mm PC-E @ f11 iso 100

Canon 5D3 24mm TSE II @ f11 iso 100

Mar 25, 2013 at 05:57 AM

Sneakyracer
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p.3 #12 · p.3 #12 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Here are some crops:

As you can see the Canon has a touch of banding and more noise obviously. It should be no problem in print though at least at 20x30in and below.

Nikon D800E 24mm PC-E @ f11 iso 100

Canon 5D3 24mm TS-E II @ f11 iso 100

Mar 25, 2013 at 06:00 AM

AGeoJO
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p.3 #13 · p.3 #13 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Yes, the noise level seems to be higher in the crop of the 5D Mark III but that crop appears sharper, too. I realize that the size difference has to do with the MP difference. Just out of curiosity since you are at it, could you show the crop of the same (print) size for us, please? You can either downsize the Nikon file or enlarge the Canon file to get the exact same size of "print" for that comparison. I know the noise level of the Nikon file will look even cleaner that way but I am impressed with the sharpness of the Canon file and would like to see the comparison sharpness between the two at the actually same "print" size. Does it make sense? Thanks!

Mar 25, 2013 at 08:29 AM

Sneakyracer
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p.3 #14 · p.3 #14 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

AGeoJO wrote:
Yes, the noise level seems to be higher in the crop of the 5D Mark III but that crop appears sharper, too. I realize that the size difference has to do with the MP difference. Just out of curiosity since you are at it, could you show the crop of the same (print) size for us, please? You can either downsize the Nikon file or enlarge the Canon file to get the exact same size of "print" for that comparison. I know the noise level of the Nikon file will look even cleaner that way but I am impressed with...Show more →

Ok, here I converted the same crop at 1000 px wide. The Canon is upresed a touch and the Nikon downres a tad.

Nikon D800e

Canon 5D3

Mar 25, 2013 at 09:24 AM

Stoffer
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p.3 #15 · p.3 #15 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Sneakyracer wrote:
Ok, here I converted the same crop at 1000 px wide. The Canon is upresed a touch and the Nikon downres a tad.

Very interesting. A touch of luminance noise reduction on the 5D image and they might get quite close. Or am I missed something?

Mar 25, 2013 at 09:32 AM

artd
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p.3 #16 · p.3 #16 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Stoffer wrote:
Very interesting. A touch of luminance noise reduction on the 5D image and they might get quite close. Or am I missed something?

I'm not sure if a "touch" of simple noise reduction would do it. Maybe a moderate to heavy amount. And the Topaz Denoise filter with the debanding option might be better.

However, the other issue is that the Nikon image will take sharpening better than the Canon image.

But these crops show why I'm still shooting Canon. The 24TSEII is an outstanding lens.

Mar 25, 2013 at 10:41 AM

mttran
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p.3 #17 · p.3 #17 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

artd wrote:
I'm not sure if a "touch" of simple noise reduction would do it. Maybe a moderate to heavy amount. And the Topaz Denoise filter with the debanding option might be better.

However, the other issue is that the Nikon image will take sharpening better than the Canon image.

But these crops show why I'm still shooting Canon. The 24TSEII is an outstanding lens.

+1, the comparison does not look bad in this case but don't count out the wider DR cases. Thanks for sharing, Sneakyracer.

Mar 25, 2013 at 10:51 AM

andyjaggy82
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p.3 #18 · p.3 #18 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

M Lucca wrote:
Scrolling down the screen, I coudn't tell which image is by which camera. They all look the same. I suspect this is the conclusion for the great majority of the viewers with interweb images and flipping through magazines. Then again I don't go looking for 10000% crops and hover a magnifying glass over a typical issue of Nat Geo mag.

I saw a very pretty photo in another thread.... shot by an EOS M with a kit lens.

Just use whichever works. Thanks for your efforts though.

I agree and disagree.

I think we are definitely to a point where the quality difference between cameras and lenses is so small that it is starting to not matter much. I'm a pretty avid landscape shooter, and I shoot with a crop camera. Gasp!, besides being constantly told on these forums that this camera isn't good for landscapes, I have many fantastic 24X24, and 20X30 prints on my wall that beg to argue that opinion.

I have no doubt that I could get slightly better results with a full frame 5D III or a Nikon D800. Heck, in those 20X30 prints you might even be able to notice the difference past a viewing distance of 6 inches. Maybe. While I would love to upgrade to such a camera, and am just a little bit jealous of those who have them, it's not a show stopper, and if I had to choose between spending 3 grand on more equipment, or 3 grand on photography excursions, I think the latter would end up giving me better images.

Mar 25, 2013 at 11:03 AM

AGeoJO
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p.3 #19 · p.3 #19 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

Sneakyracer wrote:
Ok, here I converted the same crop at 1000 px wide. The Canon is upresed a touch and the Nikon downres a tad.

Thanks! Am I imagining or does the Canon file still look sharper? You cannot tell much from the sign but if you look at the palm tree fronds, they appear sharper on the Canon image. Any difference in the wind condition that you remember when you shot the comparison tests? Hmm, actually the short or shorter bushes, which were less affected by wind, appear sharper on the Canon image, as well. Interesting! Yes, the noise is definitely more noticeable but I am still impressed with the sharpness of the Canon file, which is partly attributed to the sharpness of the 24mm TS/E. No doubt! Indeed, a little NR and voila!

Dynamic range? I care less! IMHO and for my taste, my 5D Mark III files have enough DR, more than what I need anyway. Feel free to disagree with me though as your shooting style/taste/preference is different than mine. Resolution or a higher MP is nice to have

.

Thanks again!

Mar 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM

retrofocus
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p.3 #20 · p.3 #20 · Testing D800e and 5D3 with the Best Wide Angles

AGeoJO wrote:
Thanks! Am I imagining or does the Canon file still look sharper? You cannot tell much from the sign but iIf you look at the palm tree fronds, they are sharper on the Canon image. Any difference in the wind condition that you remember when you shot the comparison tests? Hmm, actually the short bushes, which were less affected by wind, appear sharper on the Canon image, as well. Interesting! Yes, the noise is definitely higher though but I am impressed with the sharpness of the Canon file which is partly attributed to the sharpness of the 24mm TS/E. No...Show more →

The test here is very obvious and sufficiently accurate. Hard to find excuses now......as it was mentioned many times before, the Sony/Exmor sensor is just a step up in regard to resolution and DR. I am sure that some who claim that they do not need the advantages of the newer sensor will be the first in line to get a new high MP/improved DR camera when Canon will announce it at some point.

Mar 25, 2013 at 01:11 PM

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