Arca-Swiss B1 with quick release etc. $400 at B+H. Biggest difference is it is listed at 90 lb cap..
Kirk BH-1 with QR from Kirk, $340. Couldn't find a load rating on the Kirk site but I'm sure its in the same class.
Markins M-10 with QR knob etc. $320 from Markins. Load cap. 88 lbs.
Compare these three to the RRS with the QR knob price of $415 (another $40 to get the lever, but all of the above ballhead have a knob quick release). Load cap. 75 lbs.
All of these choices are quality ballheads from reputable manufacturers.
I will agree that I basically took a $80-100 leap of faith that RRS was going to put out a great product (or $15 compared to B-1). I certainly have wasted more than that in other areas of my photography purchases. Only time will tell how this product will perform relative to the others.
Spend your money as you see fit but please don't berate others for thier choices.
Arca-Swiss B1 with quick release etc. $400 at B+H. Biggest difference is it is listed at 90 lb cap..
Kirk BH-1 with QR from Kirk, $340. Couldn't find a load rating on the Kirk site but I'm sure its in the same class.
Markins M-10 with QR knob etc. $320 from Markins. Load cap. 88 lbs.
Compare these three to the RRS with the QR knob price of $415 (another $40 to get the lever, but all of the above ballhead have a knob quick release). Load cap. 75 lbs.
All of these choices are quality ballheads from reputable manufacturers.
I will agree that I basically took a $80-100 leap of faith that RRS was going to put out a great product (or $15 compared to B-1). I certainly have wasted more than that in other areas of my photography purchases. Only time will tell how this product will perform relative to the others.
Spend your money as you see fit but please don't berate others for thier choices. ...Show more →
I'm not berating anyone. I am trying to figure out what makes the RRS worth the extra money.
If you didn't gather already, the sex appeal comments were a joke... sort of...
A 600 IS and camera weighs roughly 20 LBS, maybe a little over.... Where is the great benefit of having a ball head so ridiculously priced and able to handle almost a hundred pounds? What does it gain you other than a "lever". don't get mad when a person that is "aware" of the dollar to value amount questions a purchase...
Spend your money how you want, the sex "appeal" is obviously in the "buyers" mind.
Personally, I would spend a couple hundreds dollars on a head that handles "every" (I own the 600 IS) lens I own and spend the rest on equipment that will be more beneficial. But that is just me.
Everyone is different.
spartan,
Edited by spartan123 on Aug 11, 2004 at 05:50 PM GMT
The berating comment was more directed to the comments made by Spartan123.
As I said, the extra $15-$100 extra was paid upfront strictly for the reputation of RRS with the hope that I would be rewarded with a product that surpassed the others.
I will have to ask around when I'm out and about if the there is anything to the sex appeal angle. I would think large white lenses (which I don't own) would have that angle covered.
The berating comment was more directed to the comments made by Spartan123.
As I said, the extra $15-$100 extra was paid upfront strictly for the reputation of RRS with the hope that I would be rewarded with a product that surpassed the others.
I will have to ask around when I'm out and about if the there is anything to the sex appeal angle. I would think large white lenses (which I don't own) would have that angle covered.
I'm not berating anyone. I am trying to figure out what makes the RRS worth the extra money.
I have the "new style" B1 with QR plate. It has never been in sand, rain, sea water, or any truly harsh conditions. I've had it for just about a year now and since I rarely use a tripod, it's safe to say that so far it has lived a less than exciting life. The most excitement it ever got was spend a night on the Antarctic ice.
Currently it's in the freezer, following the 2nd suggestion I got on RG's site on how to un-freeze it (I know it sounds strange). It can't be moved without _serious_ banging on it. The usual solutions didn't work; alcohol and soap water are next. The fact that I can send it in somewhere and pay for labor (which is not covered under warranty) is quite appaling for a $450 ball head. Rest assured, I am planning to fix mine and then dump it for something else, preferrably with a warranty that's (a) not needed and (b) if needed, actually useful. RRS comes to mind.
Do a search on what lubricant / procedures keep guns from freezing in the Arctic environment.
Sorry, used to own a sporting goods shop.With a little research it is not hard to keep any metal from freezing in frigid weather.
spartan
stanj wrote:
I have the "new style" B1 with QR plate. It has never been in sand, rain, sea water, or any truly harsh conditions. I've had it for just about a year now and since I rarely use a tripod, it's safe to say that so far it has lived a less than exciting life. The most excitement it ever got was spend a night on the Antarctic ice.
Currently it's in the freezer, following the 2nd suggestion I got on RG's site on how to un-freeze it (I know it sounds strange). It can't be moved without _serious_ banging on it. The usual solutions didn't work; alcohol and soap water are next. The fact that I can send it in somewhere and pay for labor (which is not covered under warranty) is quite appaling for a $450 ball head. Rest assured, I am planning to fix mine and then dump it for something else, preferrably with a warranty that's (a) not needed and (b) if needed, actually useful. RRS comes to mind.
spartan123 wrote:
don't get mad when a person that is "aware" of the dollar to value amount questions a purchase...
I'm not mad. I'm just pointing out that I think you are berating those who do not have your same "awareness". There are many examples in and out of photography that when put to a pure value test will fail. My BMW motorcycle does very few things better (and many things worse) than a friends Honda and cost 40% more. If value was the only thing to consider, BMW would sell very few motorcycles or cars.
As for the weight capacity equation. I was using the capacity ratings simply to put these ballheads in the same category, not to justify a 75-100 lb load requirement. After using the Gitzo 1276M for macro work, I will just be happy to have a ballhead that doesn't flex when the camera is not horizontal.
I chose this ballhead simply because I felt it would never need to be replaced. Maybe supplemented, but not replaced.
You don't have to justify your purchase to anyone. You have purchased what appears to be an excellent ballhead at a price comparable with the best on the market.
I wouldn't hesitate paying $500 on a ballhead that I planned on putting $10,000 worth of camera and lens on. When I put my camera and lens on a ballhead, on a window mount, I want to know it will hold it. I wish my B-1 was rated at 200# for that extra security.
I know Sparky14 probably spent that much or more on his Gimbal setups.
Personally, I would consider the RSS head if I were in the market to purchase a new ballhead. And I wouldn't even attempt to justify to anyone why I spent MY money on something that I wanted. Enjoy your purchase!
Actually I bought my Gimbel and Kirk King Cobra "used" for a very good price, a little over $125.00 more (for both) than the price of that pretty ballhead.
Been a long and very "hard" day, I apologize for any comments that ruffled feathers.
Spartan Jim Victory wrote:
UFO,
You don't have to justify your purchase to anyone. You have purchased what appears to be an excellent ballhead at a price comparable with the best on the market.
I wouldn't hesitate paying $500 on a ballhead that I planned on putting $10,000 worth of camera and lens on. When I put my camera and lens on a ballhead, on a window mount, I want to know it will hold it. I wish my B-1 was rated at 200# for that extra security.
I know Sparky14 probably spent that much or more on his Gimbal setups.
Do a search on what lubricant / procedures keep guns from freezing in the Arctic environment.
Sorry, used to own a sporting goods shop.With a little research it is not hard to keep any metal from freezing in frigid weather.
spartan
Umm, I never said that the ball head froze in cold weather. You must have misunderstood / misread my post. It froze in Florida, in temperatures around 100F (37C). I merely stated that my B1 ball head froze, as in, fails to move, despite of never having been abused or being exposed to any harsh climate or environment. Which doesn't make it look all too reliable. I also observed that Arca Swiss' warranty is sub-par compared to the RRS warranty, which is the point of my post.
on the subject of lubes. follow the manufacturers instructions and suggested actions. in the case of the RRS ball it is spelled out simply in the instruction sheet(and i'll say with confidence it goes for 99% of ball heads too):
NO LUBRICATION IS REQUIRED BY THE USER. DO NOT LUBE THE BALL.
if you lube the ball you reduce its ability to lockup. lubing attracts dust and particals to said components. any parts in their ball that require lubing are lubed and sealed
older AS heads aspheric design had the potential to cause a non user actioned lockup if the ball was put away with the lock knob partially engaged. always put it away with the knob unlocked fully. there has been a redesign of the aspheric qualities of the ball to reduce/eliminate this issue. PM me if you want to know why it locked up there are 2 basic scenerios.
by following the basic instructions i have used my AS (now sold) in temps as high as 108 deg f to -15 deg f with no ill affects except on me so far.
stanj wrote:
Umm, I never said that the ball head froze in cold weather. You must have misunderstood / misread my post. It froze in Florida, in temperatures around 100F (37C). I merely stated that my B1 ball head froze, as in, fails to move, despite of never having been abused or being exposed to any harsh climate or environment. Which doesn't make it look all too reliable. I also observed that Arca Swiss' warranty is sub-par compared to the RRS warranty, which is the point of my post.
EB-1 wrote:
Of course I have! Unfortunately the RRS flip lever is not strong enough to withstand an impact to the ground when the tripod falls over. Mine was somewhat tweaked, but still serviceable the second day into a trip. Not fun. Meanwhile the Kirk knurled knob on my old B1 is battle-scarred but rock solid. Another think I don't like about the RRS flip style is that it catches on underbrush. Mine never flipped open but it is a source of concern.
EB
ok when the tripod fell was the camera on it?
if not was the "crummy flipper knob" opened out?
i ask this because the design of the "knob" as you put it is tucked in out of the way when closed so catching on underbrush would be a task. but hey planes crash too. statistics show though that 85% of the time it was due to the pilot (user) error not a a design flaw. another 12 or so some odd percent for mx (another user)(my job)and the last bit due to product/component failure. it pretty much goes like that through most things in life too. if you get my drift.
the flipper is stainless steel. you must have put a good load on it to tweak it. i suggest you send it back to RRS and have them look at it.
when you bought your Dm2 at $4+k how did you justify it against your older camera with a $2+k difference and diminishing returns?
you realize of course its value in a very few years its will be diminished in considerably more in ratio then the RRS will be. a universal component that is quality and a basic part of a universal system will hold it value much better. so in the diminishing returns catagory you will lose on the camera then on the head in percentages in a sale after a few years.
value has many meanings
1-for some is quality and increased no worries functionality and operation with lots of use in lots of situations
2-for others its "my precious". if you don't get it as gollum
when you bought your Dm2 at $4+k how did you justify it against your older camera with a $2+k difference and diminishing returns?
you realize of course its value in a very few years its will be diminished in considerably more in ratio then the RRS will be. a universal component that is quality and a basic part of a universal system will hold it value much better. so in the diminishing returns catagory you will lose on the camera then on the head in percentages in a sale after a few years.
value has many meanings
1-for some is quality and increased no worries functionality and operation with lots of use in lots of situations
2-for others its "my precious". if you don't get it as gollum
Well, I agree with you and I don't. Talking about a Mark II versus a 10D, I justified my purchase on a few easily measurable characteristics that the Mark II has that the 10D does not; weather sealing, larger sensor for wide angling, better viewfinder, more complete metering options, faster and more accurate autofocus, more pixels, and overall faster performance. I still like and use the 10D, but I like the 1D better because it has a few tools that I find to be helpful. Now, I agree that the camera's value will diminish far faster than the head, but I will be leveraging it's advantages quite heavily, so it matters less to me.
On the other hand, what are the clear and measurable differences between an RRS head and Acratech? Or a Kirk vs and RRS. How about the Markins ML-3 Titanium ($2000 USD) vs the Acratech or RRS? The RRS has a spirit level. That's about all I see. The load bearing capacity of the heads is likely to exceed even the heaviest camera lens combos, unless you are regularly shooting with a 1200-1700 or a 1200mm f/5.6. Even with those lenses, these heads are up to the task. Warranty? Most of these companies do a great job standing behind their products. Mounting? They have the same Arca-Swiss mounting plate format. Extra knobs, controls or buttons? I don't see that either. Smoothness of operation? How much smoother can it be versus a Kirk or Acratech?
If you buy into the RRS because of the quality/value you perceive in their products, that's one thing, but how do you relate that to others. How would you sell the product to a skeptical consumer, if that was your job? There are a number of products out there that I would argue can do the same thing with the same relative ease, and have the same operational life, that cost a little to a lot less. But you may not have the same perception of those products.
Either way, you need not justify your purchase to me or anyone else. All I want to try to get a feel for what differentiates the products at this price range, and I'm still not sure what does. EIther way, enjoy your new tool.
lordarka wrote:
$500 for a head.... hmmm... I think we are entering a realm of significant diminishing returns.
I do like that built in spirit level.... but in the spirit of frugality, I think I'll stick with my Acratech, which only cost me $30
Why do all the good mount/head manufacturers all have to be in CA? I hate paying sales tax!
Arka C.
from what i can see the first negative volley in the thread was thrown out by you.
i can also answer the question on the machine shops in CA. the former home of the now defunct douglas aerospace manufacturing company. also lockeed northrop. lots of talented tech engineering machine heads out there still that supported them.
