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Archive 2013 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer

  
 
hardlyboring
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p.6 #1 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


This thread is all over and I am not going to lie... I have not read much except the OP.
IMO you should do what you want. If you don't feel like you want to do it or don't feel like you have the experience or whatever then just say no. It is not that hard to just say no.

If you do want to do it then do it and don't feel bad about it or let anyone get under your skin. We are a fairly tight knit group here and like Mark said you can basically think of this whole thing like one big get together of photographers at a BBQ.




Feb 24, 2013 at 10:27 PM
Ballistics
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p.6 #2 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


Ziffl3 wrote:
ballistics... while this thread looks all over the place ...
a couple of thoughts:

A. as mentioned earlier.....there are a bunch of working pros (full time or as a 2nd job).
B. What makes this forum different: shooter care.... care about the industry, about the product....
C. You should treat this like walking into a back yard barbecue full of shooter as mentioned in A.

So how would you approach the backyard? Most likely listen at first then start sharing your thoughts/asking questions.

just my 2 cents.....


I would approach it the exact same way I did here, state my situation and listen to advice given about shooting it. The second someone started misconstruing facts, developing judgments on poor assumptions, or just completely ignoring the information at hand... I would set them straight and stand my ground. And that's what I did here. I didn't come here for conflict and confrontation, but if met with it I have no problem reestablishing my premise which is genuine to begin with. However, I highly doubt if I approached any of these people that gave me a hard time at a barbecue and stated my situation, we would have gotten right to the point without all this nonsense.



Feb 24, 2013 at 11:13 PM
Ballistics
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p.6 #3 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


hardlyboring wrote:
This thread is all over and I am not going to lie... I have not read much except the OP.
IMO you should do what you want. If you don't feel like you want to do it or don't feel like you have the experience or whatever then just say no. It is not that hard to just say no.

If you do want to do it then do it and don't feel bad about it or let anyone get under your skin. We are a fairly tight knit group here and like Mark said you can basically think of this
...Show more

I addressed a post like this somewhere in the mess of the thread, but it's not about being afraid to say no. I've said no already thinking that it was a real deal wedding. But I was told that it was a second wedding, and that they are having a small 50 person wedding with a bridal party of 3. And it was downplayed a lot. I expressed all of my concerns today and I again established all the things that could go wrong. They insist, so why not. I'm intrigued about the experience, and the fact that they persisted to re-ask me even after establishing my concerns makes me believe that they aren't very concerned with the final product. I'm sure they don't expect P&S garbage, but I still need to find out specifically what they expect.

Ceremony and reception are in the same location but the ceremony is outdoors and the reception is very well lit indoors and starts at 1030 and ends at 330 in may so I'll have plenty of light to work with.

I have to find out what my expenses are, and when we speak again I will get her full expectations. Like I said before, if I don't think I can meet them I will walk. If I don't make enough money, I will walk. I'm looking to make about $100/hr not including expenses. If they can't meet that, I'll walk.



Feb 24, 2013 at 11:23 PM
Ballistics
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p.6 #4 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


julieawhitlock wrote:
Exactly. If you give them a fair expectation and you meet or exceed it then they have nothing to complain about. I'd maybe try and get that in something like an email so you can have that proof if they do try to come back to you and give you grief.


I plan on ironing out every wrinkle of concern in the contract and verbally before the contract, and will make sure I get both signatures. Hell, maybe even have it notarized lol.



Feb 24, 2013 at 11:28 PM
jamesmorophoto
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p.6 #5 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


I've heard all sorts of arguments why someone in your shoes should and should not take a job like this. Zack Arias will tell you that there's a photography market for every income level and demographic and that letting an untrained hobbyist photograph a wedding just reinforces the value of a trained professional (i.e. b/c they'll realize that their photos suck compared to a real wedding pro).

I'm on the side that will you tell to not shoot it b/c it's no different than letting someone that's never done auto repair to fix your transmission--the results are going to be ugly. Some people are profoundly cheap and will skimp on anything they can, including events that cannot be redone (i.e. a wedding). If you stuck to your gut instincts and deferred to a professional, then you would be doing your part to eliminate this bogus 'market' by forcing the budget brides to hire a professional. The only reason i'm even bothering to post my response is this: In a way, you are taking a job from someone. Granted, this would be a low-paying job, but it's still the job of a wedding photographer. The reason auto mechanics, architects and doctors dont suffer the same fate of some asshat insisting they have a friend of a friend do the job so that they dont have to pay professional prices is that you need a license (and training), and people are terrified of the repercussions of a job gone bad. If you were to insist that she hire a professional, no matter how low her expectations for quality are, you would be doing this industry a great favor. Instead, your actions are continuing to perpetuate the student-wedding photographer market. Ultimately, most (cheap) brides' thoughts are that as long as they have photos that don't look like P&S crap, then they'll have something to remember the day by and will be 'ok'. I doubt your photos are going to suck bad enough for them to take issue with them. Instead, they'll probably tell you they 'love' them, and then their friends will tell their friends to not hire 'expensive' professional photographers when you can get talented students to photograph their weddings for practically nothing. Your ego will love this, and you'll soon find yourself fast-tracked into wedding photography and over-saturating an already over-saturated market. Unless this is something you must do out of necessity, or unless you actually are genuinely interested in a career as a wedding photographer, then you're making the wrong decision.

It looks like you've already committed to doing this before you started this post (you just wanted reassurance that you were making the right decision). If this 'experience' somehow turns out to be enjoyable and you do decide that wedding photography is a career you want to look into, you will eventually find yourself in our shoes reading a similar post and will be able to understand why all the professionals here are telling you to not bother.



Feb 25, 2013 at 12:18 AM
honorerdieu
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p.6 #6 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


james, how is the OP taking a job away from someone when he explicitly stated in his post that he was approached by the potential client to shoot their wedding? I get that several of you guys have a problem with the OP mulling a decision about taking on the job, but in the end he is going to do what he wants to do.

And "professional" is a very loose term nowadays. I've seen crappy photos from someone who has proclaimed himself as a "real pro."



Feb 25, 2013 at 02:08 AM
Ballistics
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p.6 #7 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


jamesmorophoto wrote:
I've heard all sorts of arguments why someone in your shoes should and should not take a job like this. Zack Arias will tell you that there's a photography market for every income level and demographic and that letting an untrained hobbyist photograph a wedding just reinforces the value of a trained professional (i.e. b/c they'll realize that their photos suck compared to a real wedding pro).


And that's probably truly the case. Makes the most sense.

I'm on the side that will you tell to not shoot it b/c it's no different than letting someone that's never done auto repair to fix your transmission--the results are going to be ugly.

I understand that no analogy is perfect, but nothing about this situation resembles this analogy without being removed by like 5 degrees.

Some people are profoundly cheap and will skimp on anything they can, including events that cannot be redone (i.e. a wedding). If you stuck to your gut instincts and deferred to a professional, then you would be doing your part to eliminate this bogus 'market' by forcing the budget brides to hire a professional. The only reason i'm even bothering to post my response is this: In a way, you are taking a job from someone.

I wouldn't be forcing her to do anything. Also, taking a job from someone? Come on man. I get that a lot of professionals look down upon newbies, but you're losing me with your logic here.

Granted, this would be a low-paying job, but it's still the job of a wedding photographer.

It's the job of anyone that accepts the job.

The reason auto mechanics, architects and doctors dont suffer the same fate of some asshat insisting they have a friend of a friend do the job so that they dont have to pay professional prices is that you need a license (and training), and people are terrified of the repercussions of a job gone bad.
Yeah, terrified of things like death and serious bodily injury. You don't really compare your self to a doctor do you?

If you were to insist that she hire a professional, no matter how low her expectations for quality are, you would be doing this industry a great favor. Instead, your actions are continuing to perpetuate the student-wedding photographer market.
I'm getting the sense of severe elitism here. And I'm more than positive, the decision I make will not only not have an effect on the industry, but it will also not effect of the student-wedding photographer market. You're putting too much weight on this.

Ultimately, most (cheap) brides' thoughts are that as long as they have photos that don't look like P&S crap, then they'll have something to remember the day by and will be 'ok'. I doubt your photos are going to suck bad enough for them to take issue with them. Instead, they'll probably tell you they 'love' them, and then their friends will tell their friends to not hire 'expensive' professional photographers when you can get talented students to photograph their weddings for practically nothing.

Oh good, more if/else logic. So which is it, the turn out will be ugly? Or I'll probably do OK and they'll tell me that they love them?

Your ego will love this, and you'll soon find yourself fast-tracked into wedding photography and over-saturating an already over-saturated market. Unless this is something you must do out of necessity, or unless you actually are genuinely interested in a career as a wedding photographer, then you're making the wrong decision.

My ego will love it? I might feel good about making someone happy but, unlike many people in this industry, I'm as down to Earth as you could possibly imagine. These people tell me how much they love my photos, my answer to that is they probably are more familiar with facebook photos from iphones, so when they look at my semi-composed novice shots, it looks good to them.

It looks like you've already committed to doing this before you started this post (you just wanted reassurance that you were making the right decision).
People just hear what they want to hear. I can only say "I haven't decided to do it" so many times.

If this 'experience' somehow turns out to be enjoyable and you do decide that wedding photography is a career you want to look into, you will eventually find yourself in our shoes reading a similar post and will be able to understand why all the professionals here are telling you to not bother.
Oh no! Not that!

Look, I'm almost 30. I've experienced many different occupations. There are beginners in every field, and there are bitter veterans turning their nose up because they hate new blood. The market is flooded because photography is not what it used to be. It's very easy to come by, easy to learn, and even easier to afford more than ever. Me shooting this wedding, or not shooting the wedding will not change the market. It will not have an effect on the industry. And if I shot it and didn't post here no one here would have a clue. Stop placing the weight of the universe on this decision. It will make you feel a lot better about it.

For the eleventeenth time, if I can't meet her expectations, I will walk. Until I find out what they are, I will be researching what goes into shooting a wedding.



Feb 25, 2013 at 10:47 AM
Littleguy
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p.6 #8 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


Looks like I missed all the excitement. I think your topic title prompted the responses you got.

"Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer" - it implies a question of what should I do?

But what you are looking for can be found on the first 2 topics on this forum:

Wedding Resources and Info
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/609963

Please READ before posting
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/728814




Feb 25, 2013 at 11:32 AM
Ballistics
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p.6 #9 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


Littleguy wrote:
Looks like I missed all the excitement. I think your topic title prompted the responses you got.

"Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer" - it implies a question of what should I do?

But what you are looking for can be found on the first 2 topics on this forum:

Wedding Resources and Info
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/609963

Please READ before posting
https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/728814



The body of the OP gives context to the title. So there's no room for implications and assumptions.

Thank you for the links.





Feb 25, 2013 at 12:43 PM
cordellwillis
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p.6 #10 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


To me wedding photography isn't about how good you are as a photographer and the quality of the gear you have at your disposal. It's about the ability to mentally handle all of the possible situations during the wedding day. You NEVER know what will happen. This isn't to say those things are bad. It's just to say a bright sunny day is different than shooting a poring down rainy day. How about the client giving you information that isn't perfect to the ideas you had in mind? The list goes on....that is if you actually care about the results (meaning want them to stand out).

It's easy to be a great photographer when time is on your side and you don't have to deal with various personalities: from those meaning well but still getting in your way to those who will be an arse.

You may be a good guy/gal who believe they can get along with just about anyone and believe they can still think of how to do what they know how to do under no pressure. Pressure can make a difference. Even if it is a small difference it may be something is important to the client.



Feb 25, 2013 at 01:01 PM
awad
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p.6 #11 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


cordellwillis wrote:
To me wedding photography isn't about how good you are as a photographer and the quality of the gear you have at your disposal. It's about the ability to mentally handle all of the possible situations during the wedding day. You NEVER know what will happen. This isn't to say those things are bad. It's just to say a bright sunny day is different than shooting a poring down rainy day. How about the client giving you information that isn't perfect to the ideas you had in mind? The list goes on....that is if you actually care about the results
...Show more

something tells me, based on his past experience...pressure wont be a problem for him.



Feb 25, 2013 at 01:36 PM
Ballistics
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p.6 #12 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


cordellwillis wrote:
To me wedding photography isn't about how good you are as a photographer and the quality of the gear you have at your disposal. It's about the ability to mentally handle all of the possible situations during the wedding day. You NEVER know what will happen. This isn't to say those things are bad. It's just to say a bright sunny day is different than shooting a poring down rainy day. How about the client giving you information that isn't perfect to the ideas you had in mind? The list goes on....that is if you actually care about the results
...Show more

I agree with all of your points. But this is an isolated circumstance. I'm not saying that I would be great at wedding photography, I don't even think I'm a good photographer to begin with. I'm sure that wedding photography is difficult, and I'm sure that it takes a lot of experience to produce quality wedding pictures. I'm not arguing against any of that. How could I? I've never shot a wedding before. However, the product at the end of the shoot while extremely important, isn't a factor of me making the decision to shoot or not to shoot. I can't say yes or no based on an unknown outcome.

Since the outcome isn't a great concern of the prospective client, all I need to worry about is doing my best. And I would if I did it. I would give it 110%. But I'm the one being sought out, and the ball is in my court. I already gave them the 3rd degree about being inexperienced. I talked about missing opportune moments and not having second chances. I also said that just because they like the photo on my website, doesn't mean that you'll like the outcome of the photographs of the wedding. If they still have it in their mind that photography is photography and they have high expectations even after they told me that they didn't, that is totally on them. I'm not a mind reader. I covered my butt.
If the pictures are so awful that they don't even want to share them, then I would just give them their money back.

If I can make a decent profit, have positive learning experience, and produce pictures that the family enjoys, I don't see why I should say no. But if it turns out that the bride is really expecting more than she alludes to, I will have to respectfully turn her down, just like I did the first time.



Feb 25, 2013 at 01:37 PM
NotoriousPTG
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p.6 #13 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


Lol i read the op - I can just imagine how this got to 6 pages.


Feb 25, 2013 at 01:45 PM
cordellwillis
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p.6 #14 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


Ballistics wrote:
Since the outcome isn't a great concern of the prospective client, all I need to worry about is doing my best.


That is true before the wedding takes place.

I'm not one to try to discourage given that everyone is a photographer these days and looking at many of the positive comments on FB photos not many care what their images look like anyway. I am NOT at all talking about your work because I don't know it. My reply to all of this is related to dealing with personalities when you're working on what you do. Call it multi-tasking during a once in a life time event (at least hopefully).

Most times it's fun to shoot weddings. Many times you want to slap somebody. Good luck.



Feb 25, 2013 at 02:02 PM
Ballistics
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p.6 #15 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


NotoriousPTG wrote:
Lol i read the op - I can just imagine how this got to 6 pages.


Haha, yeah. Give it a read. You'll probably enjoy it lol.



Feb 25, 2013 at 02:19 PM
Ballistics
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p.6 #16 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


cordellwillis wrote:
That is true before the wedding takes place.

I'm not one to try to discourage given that everyone is a photographer these days and looking at many of the positive comments on FB photos not many care what their images look like anyway. I am NOT at all talking about your work because I don't know it. My reply to all of this is related to dealing with personalities when you're working on what you do. Call it multi-tasking during a once in a life time event (at least hopefully).

Most times it's fun to shoot weddings. Many times you want to
...Show more


Truthfully, I don't doubt they have expectations that they would like me to meet, otherwise they would just put out disposable cameras on each table. But if a properly exposed image is the bulk of their expectations, then I will probably be fine. As for facebook feedback, I'm lucky if I get 3 likes on an image ahaha.



Feb 25, 2013 at 02:35 PM
friscoron
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p.6 #17 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


Look, I don't really care if you shoot it or not. doesn't affect me, and I don't need to get on a soapbox.

But I am curious about one thing. You said you had to get paid $100/hr or you'll walk away. Are you talking about how many hours of coverage being provided, or how many hours you'll actually work on this. As a newbie with no workflow established, I can see you put in 8-10 hours of preparation and training, 6-10 hours of coverage, and quite possibly anywhere from 20-40 hours of editing and putting everything together for them post-production. So we could be talking about up to $6000. Obviously, I don't think that's what you're looking for, but I just wanted to be sure you were thinking of the entire commitment you're making by agreeing to do, say, 6 hours of coverage for a wedding. If you get the $600 you'll get that way, then you're essentially making around $10/hour, not including the expenses you'll incur.



Feb 25, 2013 at 02:40 PM
jneilosu
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p.6 #18 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer



I think it's time someone sat down and put together a "So my friend/family member wants me to shoot a wedding..." sticky.

I'm freaking tired of these posts. There is no unique situation regarding them.

There are two decisions to be made:

1) Consider the pro's and con's of doing it and not, including all costs (time, money, etc.), the risks, and the percieved benefits.

2) If you decide you want to, then there is the decision of how to proceed with the contract, prep, and kit.

Someone, for the love of all that is holy, make a sticky that will handle all of this concisely. I won't don't do it because I'm an "idea guy"....

But seriously, enough is enough. It's not the op's fault. If we had that sticky, this thread would be two posts long:

1) the op
2) "check this sticky. flag for spam"





Feb 25, 2013 at 02:55 PM
Ballistics
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p.6 #19 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


friscoron wrote:
Look, I don't really care if you shoot it or not. doesn't affect me, and I don't need to get on a soapbox.

But I am curious about one thing. You said you had to get paid $100/hr or you'll walk away. Are you talking about how many hours of coverage being provided, or how many hours you'll actually work on this. As a newbie with no workflow established, I can see you put in 8-10 hours of preparation and training, 6-10 hours of coverage, and quite possibly anywhere from 20-40 hours of editing and putting everything together for them post-production.
...Show more

I was thinking of charging around $1000-1300 to cover everything including expenses. Making about $600-$700 after expenses.
I'm not counting preparation and training because I'm doing that on my own time to make the choice to do it.
So if this entire event took me 40 hrs and I walked away with $700 ($17.50/hr) I'd be very satisfied. I look at it as a part of my photography education. I'm in a professional practices class right now, so this experience goes hand and hand with the material being taught.



Feb 25, 2013 at 02:57 PM
kwhaley29
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p.6 #20 · Being asked to shoot a wedding when you aren't a wedding photographer


jneilosu wrote:
I think it's time someone sat down and put together a "So my friend/family member wants me to shoot a wedding..." sticky.

I'm freaking tired of these posts. There is no unique situation regarding them.

There are two decisions to be made:

1) Consider the pro's and con's of doing it and not, including all costs (time, money, etc.), the risks, and the percieved benefits.

2) If you decide you want to, then there is the decision of how to proceed with the contract, prep, and kit.

Someone, for the love of all that is holy, make a sticky that will
...Show more

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/728814

Close enough for me.



Feb 25, 2013 at 03:01 PM
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