You keep talking about this average Joe who is ok with built-in flash. No doubt he exits. I'm just not sure there are many average Joes spending near $2K on any camera, even if his mate at work told him to go full frame. As far as I know, the average Joe is spending much less, maybe $500 on the high side, or $600 if his kids are in sports.
I spent $3.5k on camera gear last year. I consider myself part of the target market for a 6D, currently owning a 60D and 5Dc. I own two speedlites. I know how to use them. For me lack of onboard flash is a major negative for the 6D. There are plenty of times I want some subtle fill in daylight and don't want to have to carry a speedlight. When I travel I typically don't want to carry an external flash. and it could have been used a a controller as per the 7D.
The D600 on paper looks much more attractive to me. As I said previously all DSLRs these days can take good pictures. All the extra features of the D600 aren't about the 95 per cent pics that could be taken by a rebel or any camera, they are about the 5 per cent of pics that stuff up because AF hasn't locked properly, because something has crept into the frame that is not coverred by the 97 per cent viewfinder, the shot that is missed because of the framerate is not fast enough and the backlight shot that needs some fill but you miss as you are trying to fit your flash that you have had to carry because Canon didn't provide a pop-up one.
Geoff D F wrote:
I spent $3.5k on camera gear last year. I consider myself part of the target market for a 6D, currently owning a 60D and 5Dc. I own two speedlites. I know how to use them. For me lack of onboard flash is a major negative for the 6D. There are plenty of times I want some subtle fill in daylight and don't want to have to carry a speedlight. When I travel I typically don't want to carry an external flash. and it could have been used a a controller as per the 7D.
The D600 on paper looks much more attractive to me. As I said previously all DSLRs these days can take good pictures. All the extra features of the D600 aren't about the 95 per cent pics that could be taken by a rebel or any camera, they are about the 5 per cent of pics that stuff up because AF hasn't locked properly, because something has crept into the frame that is not coverred by the 97 per cent viewfinder, the shot that is missed because of the framerate is not fast enough and the backlight shot that needs some fill but you miss as you are trying to fit your flash that you have had to carry because Canon didn't provide a pop-up one....Show more →
Jeez would you people quite bickering about gear. Stop using the newest latest tech as a crutch and then complaining when you only get one crutch instead of 2 *ducks tomatoes* lol
ronno wrote:
I have used the 6D a few times, and the focusing is great! Even with the outer AF points.
Using 50 1.2, 85 1.2, 50 1.4, etc. the AF was spot on shot WIDE OPEN indoors with moderate light levels.
It's a much better showing than the 5D2's AF.
You sure about that? I still haven't read a single review stating that the outer points are improved over the 5D2.
It is the same thing with the 5D3 reviews. Not a word about any improvement to the non cross type points.
Geoff D F wrote:
I spent $3.5k on camera gear last year. I consider myself part of the target market for a 6D, currently owning a 60D and 5Dc. I own two speedlites. I know how to use them. For me lack of onboard flash is a major negative for the 6D. There are plenty of times I want some subtle fill in daylight and don't want to have to carry a speedlight. When I travel I typically don't want to carry an external flash. and it could have been used a a controller as per the 7D.
The D600 on paper looks much more attractive to me. As I said previously all DSLRs these days can take good pictures. All the extra features of the D600 aren't about the 95 per cent pics that could be taken by a rebel or any camera, they are about the 5 per cent of pics that stuff up because AF hasn't locked properly, because something has crept into the frame that is not coverred by the 97 per cent viewfinder, the shot that is missed because of the framerate is not fast enough and the backlight shot that needs some fill but you miss as you are trying to fit your flash that you have had to carry because Canon didn't provide a pop-up one....Show more →
If those features and those 5% of photos are important to you, then the D600 is the right camera for you.
Using similar reasoning, I bought 2 Nikon bodies, 3 Nikon zooms, 2 Nikon primes and 2 Nikon flashes back in 2011. I figured they would improve some percentage of my photos. I used them for a few months. However, while some features were a bit better, others were a bit worse. So I gained and I lost. On balance, there was no improvement. I ended up selling each of those items. I found that sometimes what looks attractive "on paper" is balanced out by other considerations when you get to real use. I also concluded that Nikon and Canon are so closely matched there there is no clear winner between the two. Which is better ultimately depends on one's personal preferences and specific photographic applications.
dhphoto wrote:
There is 180g difference between the 5D3 and the 6D, that is 6 ounces. Hardly a deal-breaker for travel.
Why not just get a 5D3?
I'm not concerned with how heavy the 5diii is I'm concerned with how light my wallet will become. I think weather sealing should be a requirment of any single digit canon body.
Johnny B Goode wrote:
I'm not concerned with how heavy the 5diii is I'm concerned with how light my wallet will become. I think weather sealing should be a requirment of any single digit canon body.
I believe a bunch of 1-series cameras failed during a trip to the Antarctic. My 5d2 stopped working from a mist off of a waterfall. The lesson to be learned...if you shoot in challenging weather, use a rain sleeve and don't rely on your weather sealing. Canon does not believe in it as they do not warrant water damage...why should you rely on the sealing?
zlatko wrote:
Using similar reasoning, I bought 2 Nikon bodies, 3 Nikon zooms, 2 Nikon primes and 2 Nikon flashes back in 2011. I figured they would improve some percentage of my photos. I used them for a few months. However, while some features were a bit better, others were a bit worse. So I gained and I lost. On balance, there was no improvement. I ended up selling each of those items. I found that sometimes what looks attractive "on paper" is balanced out by other considerations when you get to real use. I also concluded that Nikon and Canon are so closely matched there there is no clear winner between the two. Which is better ultimately depends on one's personal preferences and specific photographic applications....Show more →
+1.
Sometimes, we need to experience for ourselves to really know what is important.
zlatko wrote:
Using similar reasoning, I bought 2 Nikon bodies, 3 Nikon zooms, 2 Nikon primes and 2 Nikon flashes back in 2011. I figured they would improve some percentage of my photos. I used them for a few months. However, while some features were a bit better, others were a bit worse. So I gained and I lost. On balance, there was no improvement. I ended up selling each of those items. I found that sometimes what looks attractive "on paper" is balanced out by other considerations when you get to real use. I also concluded that Nikon and Canon are so closely matched there there is no clear winner between the two. Which is better ultimately depends on one's personal preferences and specific photographic applications....Show more →
Heh I know a dude that did just that. His name is Form. You and him should get together and exchange war stories.
chez wrote:
I believe a bunch of 1-series cameras failed during a trip to the Antarctic. My 5d2 stopped working from a mist off of a waterfall. The lesson to be learned...if you shoot in challenging weather, use a rain sleeve and don't rely on your weather sealing. Canon does not believe in it as they do not warrant water damage...why should you rely on the sealing?
That's a fair point. Still I believe that any weather sealing, while not always effective, is better than none.
Johnny B Goode wrote:
That's a fair point. Still I believe that any weather sealing, while not always effective, is better than none.
Most DSLR's have some weather sealing...but none are weather proof. The 1d's will fail given enough chance in the rain. They will last longer than a rebel...but in the end a dead 1d is a dead 1d...and that is how Canon will treat you. Get a rain jacket and learn to shoot with it.
The weaknesses of the 6D aren't illusory. I shot thousands of wonderful pictures with my 300D, sports inclusive, but that doesn't mean the camera didn't have dozens of significant limitations that I had to work around.
The 5D II has unreliable outer points and lackluster focus tracking. It's effectively a center-point body. The 6D still has exactly the same problems. There are wide-aperture lenses I refuse to buy with the my 5D II because the hit-rate would be too low with off-center compositions.
The fact is, it's a very similar camera to what we already had and it's only 30% less in cost. After almost five years. That's what DPR is complaining about. The standard response is that you're not forced to buy it, so vote with your wallet. I am. I'm not alone.
zlatko wrote:
I'm just not sure there are many average Joes spending near $2K on any camera
So, if the 6D is not for the average Joe, why the below-average specs then
Are the one-point AF system (effectively) and the consumer ergonomics aimed at advanced users?
jorkata wrote:
So, if the 6D is not for the average Joe, why the below-average specs then
Are the one-point AF system (effectively) and the consumer ergonomics aimed at advanced users?
Not Joe Average on the street but Joe Average PhotoGeek upgrading from a Rebel or 60D class of camera. I see lots of people dropping a grand or more on a two lens DSLR 2 kit at Costco, so $1800 ain't that much of a stretch for an upgrade.
alexdi wrote:
The weaknesses of the 6D aren't illusory. I shot thousands of wonderful pictures with my 300D, sports inclusive, but that doesn't mean the camera didn't have dozens of significant limitations that I had to work around.
The 5D II has unreliable outer points and lackluster focus tracking. It's effectively a center-point body. The 6D still has exactly the same problems. There are wide-aperture lenses I refuse to buy with the my 5D II because the hit-rate would be too low with off-center compositions.
The fact is, it's a very similar camera to what we already had and it's only 30% less in cost. After almost five years. That's what DPR is complaining about. The standard response is that you're not forced to buy it, so vote with your wallet. I am. I'm not alone....Show more →
True. 5D3 is currently unreachable for me, and from all other non-1D FF bodies suddendly to me 5Dc seems to have the best price/performance ratio, as I don't do videos. Should I be buying effectively a single AF point FF camera, then I want the cheapest.
*ducks tomatoes* lol 
