RobDickinson wrote:
I dont think many will upgrade from 5d2's.
I bought a 6D as it has much better noise performance over the 5DII. In that regard alone I consider it an upgrade over my 5DII. I rarely use AF, so the fewer AF points is an non issue in my shooting: I use Live View MF most of the time.
The center point AF is pretty impressive though, and it helps the contrast detect AF quite a lot (Live View FlexiZone AF). This is a big improvement in AF speed and low light sensitivity over the 5DII. For example with the 400 f5.6 lens with 1.4X TC (an f8 combination) the Live View contrast detect works pretty well.
Finally I got it as interim body until the high MP Canon is released. Even then it will be a great night landscape body. Meanwhile my trusty 5DII is being converted to IR.
Each of us has different priorities.
Mike K
I think the 6D looks great considering the price and the size. By comparison, it seemed that DPReview loved the 7D, but the 6D is smaller and lighter than the 7D and has a sensor that is twice as big as that of the 7D. It also offers substantially better high ISO performance. And it offers better low light AF at the center point.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as it stands this $2100 camera (or less when it's on sale) is now the only DSLR in Canon's lineup with only 1 cross-type AF point. Even the latest Rebel has cross-types all over. I thought when the 5DIII came out spec-ed to the hilt that they finally figured out a reasonable progression from low end to high end. Wrong again!
But hey, what's great is now we have choices. If cross-types in a FF camera are that important to you you have the 5DIII as an option. Used to be we didn't have a choice. If we didn't like the 5D's lack of cross-types it was a 1Ds Mark II/III or bust. Similar situation with the 5DII. I was mad back then but now I'm just amused--amused that Canon still persist in pinching pennies in the weirdest ways possible. The 5DIII has a super slow SD card slot. The 6D only has a single cross-type AF point. It's just weird, but that's Canon for ya.
But Canon clearly knows what they are doing. Nikon is bleeding financially because they slashed their prices like crazy when tried to dethrone Canon in market shares (they still failed). Even as we examine the Amazon bestselling charts right now, Canon dominates (for FF cameras):
#8 Canon 5D3 24-105 kit
#10 Canon 6D body only
#11 Canon 6D 24-105 kit
#13 Canon 5D3 body only
#21 Nikon D600 body only
#23 Nikon D800 body only
I have no particular interest in the 6D other than as an observer but I'm confused as to what Canon were trying to achieve.
On one hand they stuffed it with gizmos like wifi and being able to control it with your phone and then they handicap it with a poor AF system (once again apart form the centre point) and no on-board flash, which is what many APS-C upgraders will crave.
They are almost handing that section of the market to Nikon it seems
dhphoto wrote:
On one hand they stuffed it with gizmos like wifi and being able to control it with your phone and then they handicap it with a poor AF system (once again apart form the centre point) and no on-board flash, which is what many APS-C upgraders will crave.
They are almost handing that section of the market to Nikon it seems
Except... the 6D is selling much better than D600 and Nikon screwed it up big time with their poor factory QC issues.
As for absence of on-board flash, one can easily purchase a 150g US$150 90 EX flash.
thw2 wrote:
As for absence of on-board flash, one can easily purchase a 150g US$150 90 EX flash.
Yes, I know that and you know that but Canon's target market for the 6D, those coming from a crop camera to full frame will inevitably have that as one of the things they would like to see and the D600 has it.
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear
If Canon's target market for the 6D really is the serious amateur upgrader then this is one trick Canon missed IMHO
I think the 6d is a hit and a miss. It's a hit in pretty much every regard other than a) single SD cards and b) lacklustre AF.
Other than that it's a pretty good camera..
Better than the d600? I suspect not, but as I'm saying time and time again, a camera system is more than just a body and I'd rather take the better lenses (which I still feel Canon has) any day.
All that said, I do think Canon cheaped out a little. I can't believe they didn't realise they'd take a lot of heat over the AF, so it must have been a calculated decision. However, it's still selling very well so maybe that proves they know the market better than we do!
In some respects the 6D is supposed to be a bit hit or miss so people still go and buy the 5DIII but I'm just not sure who the 6D is really for.
The people who visit this forum are enthusiasts or professionals but your average crop dslr user when he/she goes to a shop (or more likely goes to DP, Amazon or somewhere to look at specs) is going to see no pop-up flash, an inferior focusing system and all the other things the D600 has that the 6D doesn't.
Most of us here are in the Canon system but for someone who isn't the 6D looks a bit underpowered I think.
I would also question whether it really is selling that well, how do you know?
If Canon really wanted to make a full frame '70D' they didn't really. They made a 5D2 and a half.
dhphoto wrote:
The people who visit this forum are enthusiasts or professionals but your average crop dslr user when he/she goes to a shop (or more likely goes to DP, Amazon or somewhere to look at specs) is going to see no pop-up flash, an inferior focusing system and all the other things the D600 has that the 6D doesn't.
The average crop DSLR user is going to continue to buy a crop DSLR. They're going to spend $600 or $800, not $1,900 or $2,000. People who spend $1,900 have usually advanced beyond pop-up flash; they know how bad it looks and why it looks so bad.
I've shot professionally with the simple AF system of the 5D and 5D2 for years, so the simple AF system of the 6D wouldn't stop me from buying it. And Canon has upgraded the AF system to be more accurate and to work in moonlight. Not bad for such a small camera.
This is the camera I would like to buy for my wife. My first reaction to the review was "Ouch!" but then I thought that it's quite well suited to her needs: lots of shooting in dark places but seldom demanding subjects. The quiet shutter is also a bonus. Fail that, I/she might go with the 60D.
This is correct. Canon made a 1.5X 5D2, at .66% of the 5D2 price. That equates to a terrific value.
The IQ and AF point sensitivity are way up there, ranking with much more expensive models than the old 5D2.
Then come the "treats" of WiFi and GPS.
I don't see anything to complain about for the level of quality at such a low price -- it's never been seen before in Canon system.
I own a 60D and that is the only camera I have with built-in flash (well, the G10!). So that's no deal breaker for me, and won't be for those moving up from cheaper APS-C cameras -- for the most part, they know what sort of gear they are moving into.
The 60D/6D combo, for the non-action-must-have-best-AF-FPS shooter seems like a pretty nice kit. Pretty much the same control layouts, light weight, the combo wheel/joystick, both use SD cards, etc...there's even the 60Da for the astro shooters.
I've wanted a DSLR with an articulated screen, the G12 has one and it really helps me a ton. The WiFi of the 6D will do/help much the same, just untethered so to speak. The older I get, the more I'm liking lighter gear and IQ wise both bodies hit the mark well.
While you all keep arguing over what the camera can and can't do on the internet, I'm going to continue taking amazing pictures with my 6D. Have fun with that.
dhphoto wrote:
So were Nikon wrong to put a flash on the D600 then?
If Canon had put one in the 6D they would have had a very good camera for crop upgraders. Without one I think they missed a trick.
As I said before ad nauseam, the people who come to FM are not the vast majority of the camera buying public, who make up 99.999% of the population
It's not "wrong" to include a built-in flash, but it does involve some compromises. The 6D is for crop upgraders who don't use built-in flash and won't miss it. There are plenty of cameras with built-in flash, but as photographers get more advanced, built-in flash is just not a priority.
The vast majority of the camera buying public are not spending $1,900 for this camera or any camera. They are buying cameras in the $200 - $800 price range, and all of those cameras have built-in flash. Canon offers lots of other cameras for that market.
