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Archive 2012Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
p.5 #1Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
zhangyue wrote:
Another quick question for Canon 5DII user, How AUTOISO implemented? Especially with Non-Cpu Manual lens?
It's stupid. Even M-position gets semi-automatic. You probably would want turn off and instead look out through the window and think things like "aha, this is a ISO200 day", or, "tonight the Halloween parade is ISO1600". I stick to things like that and adjust when needed. :-)
At least the adjustment is quick, there's a direct button conveniently placed.
Another quick question for Canon 5DII user, How AUTOISO implemented? Especially with Non-Cpu Manual lens?
It's stupid. Even M-position gets semi-automatic. You probably would want turn off and instead look out through the window and think things like "aha, this is a ISO200 day", or, "tonight the Halloween parade is ISO1600". I stick to things like that and adjust when needed. :-)
At least the adjustment is quick, there's a direct button conveniently placed.
Nov 01, 2012 at 01:31 AM
p.5 #2Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
sebboh wrote:
i haven't spent any significant time with the a900 so i can't comment on it directly, but i got about 2 stops out of the sony IBIS on the a55 and it was a bit worse on super telephoto lengths versus normal focal lengths. in contrast i got 3-4 stops at all focal lengths on oly's 4/3 (not m4/3) IBIS all the way up to 800mm equivalent focal lengths. these are just single data points though, so it's possible IBIS on my a55 wasn't up to snuff.
Thanks, sounds like a real help then (except for tele-people where I guess Canon still have one of few edges over the others).
Douglas, thanks too. But I wouldnt compare weather sealing (fluffy) to IS (pretty distinct). I usually get by with the old "1 divided by focal length"-rule with my (IS-less) photography. Shake comes inevitably when I go below. But with IS I know I can double the time twice, often three times.
Whereas I always put the cam under the jacket if rain pours, that's a privilege we amateurs have :-)
douglasf13 wrote
Sony also talks "stops," but, like with weathersealing claims from all manufacturers, it is pretty nebulous and difficult to test.Thanks, sounds like a real help then (except for tele-people where I guess Canon still have one of few edges over the others).
Douglas, thanks too. But I wouldnt compare weather sealing (fluffy) to IS (pretty distinct). I usually get by with the old "1 divided by focal length"-rule with my (IS-less) photography. Shake comes inevitably when I go below. But with IS I know I can double the time twice, often three times.
Whereas I always put the cam under the jacket if rain pours, that's a privilege we amateurs have :-)
Nov 01, 2012 at 01:40 AM
p.5 #3Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
wfrank wrote:
It's stupid. Even M-position gets semi-automatic. You probably would want turn off and instead look out through the window and think things like "aha, this is a ISO200 day", or, "tonight the Halloween parade is ISO1600". I stick to things like that and adjust when needed. :-)
At least the adjustment is quick, there's a direct button conveniently placed.
! you know, it is a nice feature in Nikon that I can at least limit minimal shutter speed depend what I will shoot. for kids, I do 1/125, other stuff 1/focal.
zhangyue wrote
Another quick question for Canon 5DII user, How AUTOISO implemented? Especially with Non-Cpu Manual lens?At least the adjustment is quick, there's a direct button conveniently placed.
! you know, it is a nice feature in Nikon that I can at least limit minimal shutter speed depend what I will shoot. for kids, I do 1/125, other stuff 1/focal.Nov 01, 2012 at 01:42 AM
p.5 #4Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
Doesn't Magic Lantern improve on this?
Nov 01, 2012 at 02:25 AM
p.5 #5Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
zhangyue wrote:
! you know, it is a nice feature in Nikon that I can at least limit minimal shutter speed depend what I will shoot. for kids, I do 1/125, other stuff 1/focal.
:-) That's how I shoot with the NEX, setting it on T while letting ISO play (occasionally checking so it does not go berserk). You can of course do the same with a Canon but I find the other mean more convenient; fixed ISO and let the Time play instead (instead making sure it's at least 1/focal). The ever present exposure correction ring by the thumb adds to the feel of it.
! you know, it is a nice feature in Nikon that I can at least limit minimal shutter speed depend what I will shoot. for kids, I do 1/125, other stuff 1/focal.:-) That's how I shoot with the NEX, setting it on T while letting ISO play (occasionally checking so it does not go berserk). You can of course do the same with a Canon but I find the other mean more convenient; fixed ISO and let the Time play instead (instead making sure it's at least 1/focal). The ever present exposure correction ring by the thumb adds to the feel of it.
Nov 01, 2012 at 02:29 AM
p.5 #6Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
carstenw wrote:
Doesn't Magic Lantern improve on this?
Dont think so but had to check now. It looks like they color code ISO and a number of other things but I find no limit.
http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide#iso
Doesn't Magic Lantern improve on this?
Dont think so but had to check now. It looks like they color code ISO and a number of other things but I find no limit.
http://wiki.magiclantern.fm/userguide#iso
Nov 01, 2012 at 06:18 AM
p.5 #7Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
The a99 showed up the other day, so some early thoughts from this 98% MF user.
The EVF is better implemented than the a77, out of the box colour is better, and does not grain up so much in low light. As stated above, the combination of peaking and magnification is highly effective, especially since you never need to take your eye from the finder. There is a little shimmer stopped down on panning in a dark room but nothing particularly troublesome, just enough to tell you this is not a OVF, lol.
I tried my hardest-to-focus lens, the venerable 35-70/3.4 CY, which absolutely confounds the OVF on the a900 maybe 30% of the time, and is iffy a lot of the time in any light (deep DOF masks the focal plane). The new system laughed at the challenge, even at f8. Peaking is very effective in a dim room provided you have some moderate contrast edges, even at f8. In fact, the peaking pattern acts as a de facto DOF indicator - very useful. It is also very good at shooting people lit only by window light on a cloudy day.
Outside, the magpies I just fed chewed-up brazil nuts to, lit up like xmas trees - OK I cheated as they are black and white, a very high contrast bird! But the rhododendrons in the backyard did the same however, and you can observe the 'red tide' march across the lawn as you pull/push focus - at f11. It illuminates subjects in focus all over the frame, of course.
The mag has two settings I have found, not sure if this is adjustable - the first retains some peaking lighting but not the higher setting. In A mode, rooms are fine for focusing also, even at f8, as the meter adjusts to show good light. It's a shock when you look away from the finder, to see how dim the light is.
The other big win in the a99 for MF is being able to tailor the exposure using the excellent histogram, tucked away at the bottom right of the VF, with EC in A or SS in M mode. All other controls show up in the EVF - WB, ISO, a host of stuff, a lot of options, and a classy horizon level. Something I did not expect - the EVF shows OOF very nicely.
Bottom line - for MF RAW still shooters it does the two crucial things (focus and exp) fast and accurately, and most importantly - verifiably so, since the review shows up in the EVF, for instant magnification. Terrific menu, loads of adjustability for buttons (7 from memory), soft shutter release, no MLU needed, fine grip, a good handhold option, more so with chipped lenses (IBIS). Less important now, med-high ISO is pretty good on this sensor as is DR.
I will seldom use the (very good) LCD apart from some menu settings and tripod work, since the VF surround blocks bright light very well. Even for OVF holdouts they are getting close now. Only downside it apparently gets through batteries, lucky I have accumulated quite a few, and can get power now even in Ladakh and all of Tibet. So long as it does not explode like those electric cars in NY, I will be happy.
The EVF is better implemented than the a77, out of the box colour is better, and does not grain up so much in low light. As stated above, the combination of peaking and magnification is highly effective, especially since you never need to take your eye from the finder. There is a little shimmer stopped down on panning in a dark room but nothing particularly troublesome, just enough to tell you this is not a OVF, lol.
I tried my hardest-to-focus lens, the venerable 35-70/3.4 CY, which absolutely confounds the OVF on the a900 maybe 30% of the time, and is iffy a lot of the time in any light (deep DOF masks the focal plane). The new system laughed at the challenge, even at f8. Peaking is very effective in a dim room provided you have some moderate contrast edges, even at f8. In fact, the peaking pattern acts as a de facto DOF indicator - very useful. It is also very good at shooting people lit only by window light on a cloudy day.
Outside, the magpies I just fed chewed-up brazil nuts to, lit up like xmas trees - OK I cheated as they are black and white, a very high contrast bird! But the rhododendrons in the backyard did the same however, and you can observe the 'red tide' march across the lawn as you pull/push focus - at f11. It illuminates subjects in focus all over the frame, of course.
The mag has two settings I have found, not sure if this is adjustable - the first retains some peaking lighting but not the higher setting. In A mode, rooms are fine for focusing also, even at f8, as the meter adjusts to show good light. It's a shock when you look away from the finder, to see how dim the light is.
The other big win in the a99 for MF is being able to tailor the exposure using the excellent histogram, tucked away at the bottom right of the VF, with EC in A or SS in M mode. All other controls show up in the EVF - WB, ISO, a host of stuff, a lot of options, and a classy horizon level. Something I did not expect - the EVF shows OOF very nicely.
Bottom line - for MF RAW still shooters it does the two crucial things (focus and exp) fast and accurately, and most importantly - verifiably so, since the review shows up in the EVF, for instant magnification. Terrific menu, loads of adjustability for buttons (7 from memory), soft shutter release, no MLU needed, fine grip, a good handhold option, more so with chipped lenses (IBIS). Less important now, med-high ISO is pretty good on this sensor as is DR.
I will seldom use the (very good) LCD apart from some menu settings and tripod work, since the VF surround blocks bright light very well. Even for OVF holdouts they are getting close now. Only downside it apparently gets through batteries, lucky I have accumulated quite a few, and can get power now even in Ladakh and all of Tibet. So long as it does not explode like those electric cars in NY, I will be happy.
Nov 03, 2012 at 01:35 AM
p.5 #8Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
Thanks for detail write up. I will check it out once I can handle one. Though I have reservation about EVF.
I bet people will also complain that peaking will distract compose
In terms of peaking and focus aid, any improvement has been done compare to nex7?
I bet people will also complain that peaking will distract compose
In terms of peaking and focus aid, any improvement has been done compare to nex7?
Nov 03, 2012 at 09:36 AM
p.5 #9Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
zhangyue wrote:
Thanks for detail write up. I will check it out once I can handle one. Though I have reservation about EVF.
I bet people will also complain that peaking will distract compose
In terms of peaking and focus aid, any improvement has been done compare to nex7?
it's possible that being FF may improve the functionality of peaking by itself due to dof differences? on aps-c I find peaking much more effective with telephoto lenses.
Thanks for detail write up. I will check it out once I can handle one. Though I have reservation about EVF.
I bet people will also complain that peaking will distract compose
In terms of peaking and focus aid, any improvement has been done compare to nex7?
it's possible that being FF may improve the functionality of peaking by itself due to dof differences? on aps-c I find peaking much more effective with telephoto lenses.
Nov 03, 2012 at 09:59 AM
p.5 #10Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
Sebboh, it highly possible because of FF. I also agree with telephoto lens is a lot easy with peaking.
I did some quick research on A99, the review exact as I am worrying about the EVF.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_a99_field_report.shtml
Check last several paragraph if you have no time for it, as we all know its sensor is SOTA.
I need handle this personally to get a idea. but I like NEX-7 surprisingly as I don't have the same expectation for it as my FF DSLR.
I did some quick research on A99, the review exact as I am worrying about the EVF.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_a99_field_report.shtml
Check last several paragraph if you have no time for it, as we all know its sensor is SOTA.
I need handle this personally to get a idea. but I like NEX-7 surprisingly as I don't have the same expectation for it as my FF DSLR.
Nov 03, 2012 at 01:07 PM
p.5 #11Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
zhangyue wrote:
Sebboh, it highly possible because of FF. I also agree with telephoto lens is a lot easy with peaking.
I did some quick research on A99, the review exact as I am worrying about the EVF.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_a99_field_report.shtml
Check last several paragraph if you have no time for it, as we all know its sensor is SOTA.
I need handle this personally to get a idea. but I like NEX-7 surprisingly as I don't have the same expectation for it as my FF DSLR.
yeah, i saw that a while ago. unfortunately they don't really talk about manual focus, they just talk about how much they love optical viewfinders and don't see the point of evfs. this doesn't mean much to me as i've never been much impressed with dslr viewfinders (compared to manual focus slr viewfinders). it just sounds like old men who like what they're used to talking and doesn't give me any useful input about how the evf performs. there are a number of disadvantages and advantages to evfs and for me the advantages win out – full time dof preview, focus magnification, real exposure preview, focus peaking, better visibility in lowlight, and ability to see in b&w. other people will of course weigh these things differently and have different preferences.
Sebboh, it highly possible because of FF. I also agree with telephoto lens is a lot easy with peaking.
I did some quick research on A99, the review exact as I am worrying about the EVF.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/sony_a99_field_report.shtml
Check last several paragraph if you have no time for it, as we all know its sensor is SOTA.
I need handle this personally to get a idea. but I like NEX-7 surprisingly as I don't have the same expectation for it as my FF DSLR.
yeah, i saw that a while ago. unfortunately they don't really talk about manual focus, they just talk about how much they love optical viewfinders and don't see the point of evfs. this doesn't mean much to me as i've never been much impressed with dslr viewfinders (compared to manual focus slr viewfinders). it just sounds like old men who like what they're used to talking and doesn't give me any useful input about how the evf performs. there are a number of disadvantages and advantages to evfs and for me the advantages win out – full time dof preview, focus magnification, real exposure preview, focus peaking, better visibility in lowlight, and ability to see in b&w. other people will of course weigh these things differently and have different preferences.
Nov 03, 2012 at 03:03 PM
p.5 #13Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
I expect to move over to EVF at some point in time, but for now I agree to the old men talk from the review. I think it's actually a balanced review. A year ago I extensively shot with 5N including the EVF, tested varied setting for peeking but never became friend with it. Well for still life it's great, but the responsiveness of a good OVF is just superior for fast shooting. "Responsiveness" is an odd word for OVF actually as you see what you shoot with no gimmicks, it's just there. Guess that word is better used for EVF's.
The Canon option is blessed with various peeking options and patterns with Magic Lantern, but what works best for me (for still lifes) is the magnfication variants.
One of the suggestions LL made about the A99 is to have kept the OVF and enable one of those optional EVFs to put in. That would have been something.
The Canon option is blessed with various peeking options and patterns with Magic Lantern, but what works best for me (for still lifes) is the magnfication variants.
One of the suggestions LL made about the A99 is to have kept the OVF and enable one of those optional EVFs to put in. That would have been something.
Nov 04, 2012 at 05:05 PM
p.5 #14Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
wfrank wrote:
One of the suggestions LL made about the A99 is to have kept the OVF and enable one of those optional EVFs to put in. That would have been something.
they would have lost continuous PDAF during video then though, which i thought was the main reason sony decided to go for "translucent" mirror tech. sony seems to have taken the failure (financially) of their low priced FF slr targeted straight at traditionalists as a sign that they were never going to make any money off traditionalists and they should just abandon them. i suspect it was a wise move financially too, sony isn't a "real" camera company to a lot of that target market.
One of the suggestions LL made about the A99 is to have kept the OVF and enable one of those optional EVFs to put in. That would have been something.
they would have lost continuous PDAF during video then though, which i thought was the main reason sony decided to go for "translucent" mirror tech. sony seems to have taken the failure (financially) of their low priced FF slr targeted straight at traditionalists as a sign that they were never going to make any money off traditionalists and they should just abandon them. i suspect it was a wise move financially too, sony isn't a "real" camera company to a lot of that target market.
Nov 04, 2012 at 05:47 PM
p.5 #15Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
Now bring this thread back.
I think I am almost ready to get a 6D or 5dIII for my next FF body. The reasons are:
1. I can use some Leica Zoom I have without permanent modification on ROM.
2. I can adapt more lens on it to try say 58mm rokkor.
3. 6D small body is attractive, with 35cron/50cron I have, it is a poor man's RX1
4. The silent shutter is very attractive.
5. Video(compare to my D700)
Now the question:
1. without electric mount, I understand I can't have focus confirmation, how about exposure?
2. How about auto ISO?
3. How about any other function I will lose?
4. If I invest a high quality adapter say: Novaflex, can I leave it on my body all the time, and just change R or F lens? Is that durable enough?
Thanks
I think I am almost ready to get a 6D or 5dIII for my next FF body. The reasons are:
1. I can use some Leica Zoom I have without permanent modification on ROM.
2. I can adapt more lens on it to try say 58mm rokkor.
3. 6D small body is attractive, with 35cron/50cron I have, it is a poor man's RX1
4. The silent shutter is very attractive.
5. Video(compare to my D700)
Now the question:
1. without electric mount, I understand I can't have focus confirmation, how about exposure?
2. How about auto ISO?
3. How about any other function I will lose?
4. If I invest a high quality adapter say: Novaflex, can I leave it on my body all the time, and just change R or F lens? Is that durable enough?
Thanks
May 03, 2013 at 11:51 PM
p.5 #16Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
Hey Zhang. Using a 5D2 since long:
1) you can have both. Exposure automation always (through eg A mode), and if you like get a chpped adapter to get focus confirm. Or glue one on yourself, theyre cheap. For AE, you'd usually want to set some exp.comp depending on lens.
2) I prefer set ISO for the "expected photowalk situation" and keep checking that the time is shorter than 1/focale. AutoISO of course works but no limitation can be set, I think it has been discussed in this thread already.
3) Lose compared to what? I like the size of the 6D but they skipped the joystick which is handy sometimes but recalling how Canon made the XXD and XXXD series work I'm sure handling is very good Canon std without it..
4) i only use cheapo stuff so I wouldnt know. But in general some adapters require to be mounted on the lens before mounting the set on the cam. CY adapters would be one example. Leica I dont know.
I would NOT go for a 5D3 for the simple reason they dont support OEM fast mattes such as the EG-S. If you have fast lenses and like wo shooting you should really try that. And the feature was reintroduced in the 6D.
I dont know about "poor mans rx1", to me youre looking at a very capable machine
1) you can have both. Exposure automation always (through eg A mode), and if you like get a chpped adapter to get focus confirm. Or glue one on yourself, theyre cheap. For AE, you'd usually want to set some exp.comp depending on lens.
2) I prefer set ISO for the "expected photowalk situation" and keep checking that the time is shorter than 1/focale. AutoISO of course works but no limitation can be set, I think it has been discussed in this thread already.
3) Lose compared to what? I like the size of the 6D but they skipped the joystick which is handy sometimes but recalling how Canon made the XXD and XXXD series work I'm sure handling is very good Canon std without it..
4) i only use cheapo stuff so I wouldnt know. But in general some adapters require to be mounted on the lens before mounting the set on the cam. CY adapters would be one example. Leica I dont know.
I would NOT go for a 5D3 for the simple reason they dont support OEM fast mattes such as the EG-S. If you have fast lenses and like wo shooting you should really try that. And the feature was reintroduced in the 6D.
I dont know about "poor mans rx1", to me youre looking at a very capable machine
May 04, 2013 at 03:38 AM
p.5 #17Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
2) On the 6D, you can set min. shutter speed.
3) 6D has Wifi and gps. I find the wifi function brilliant. I often trek and hike alone, and I use my smartphone as a remote controller (range appx. 20 m with Samsung Galaxy S2). It can be combined with 10 sec timer, which gives you time to get even further away before the shot's taken. This opens up a whole new world in terms of self portraits in the field.
The lack of joystick you get used to, the pad is ok. I used the 5D2 for a few years. Silent shutter is brilliant.
3) 6D has Wifi and gps. I find the wifi function brilliant. I often trek and hike alone, and I use my smartphone as a remote controller (range appx. 20 m with Samsung Galaxy S2). It can be combined with 10 sec timer, which gives you time to get even further away before the shot's taken. This opens up a whole new world in terms of self portraits in the field.
The lack of joystick you get used to, the pad is ok. I used the 5D2 for a few years. Silent shutter is brilliant.
May 04, 2013 at 03:51 AM
p.5 #18Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
Thank you both.
Read back, I think I am not clear.
For 2 and 3, I really mean that without chipped adapter, do I lose autoISO and any other function.
The reasons I consider 5d3 are:
1. More response shutter, less delay, I don't remember now, but I read shutter delay is less with 5d3
2. Build and handling with heavy manual lens.
3. Video is much better from what I read though I don't even know how often I will use it and difference might only be meaningful for videographer.
4. There is after market screen available for it now from focusscreen.com. I can live with slightly exposure error for not support by 5d3.
5. AF, I might need it, pairs with new 24-70 can be one lens solution for non-photography related traveling save me a bunch of primes.
But 6d is very attractive for its siZe, and screen as well as wifi and GPS for traveling.
Now new question: I saw eBay offer cheap chipped adapter at around $15, do you have any experience with similar stuff, will I have infinity problem, in a long run, I might just leitax all my lens, but i lose the flexibility for use on nikon and I am not sure I will depart my D700 yet.
Read back, I think I am not clear.
For 2 and 3, I really mean that without chipped adapter, do I lose autoISO and any other function.
The reasons I consider 5d3 are:
1. More response shutter, less delay, I don't remember now, but I read shutter delay is less with 5d3
2. Build and handling with heavy manual lens.
3. Video is much better from what I read though I don't even know how often I will use it and difference might only be meaningful for videographer.
4. There is after market screen available for it now from focusscreen.com. I can live with slightly exposure error for not support by 5d3.
5. AF, I might need it, pairs with new 24-70 can be one lens solution for non-photography related traveling save me a bunch of primes.
But 6d is very attractive for its siZe, and screen as well as wifi and GPS for traveling.
Now new question: I saw eBay offer cheap chipped adapter at around $15, do you have any experience with similar stuff, will I have infinity problem, in a long run, I might just leitax all my lens, but i lose the flexibility for use on nikon and I am not sure I will depart my D700 yet.
May 04, 2013 at 07:22 AM
p.5 #19Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
zhangyue wrote:
But 6d is very attractive for its siZe, and screen as well as wifi and GPS for traveling..... I am not sure I will depart my D700 yet.
I bought this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825785-REG/Foolography_0100_Bundle_Unleashed_DX00_M_1200E_Receiver.html
For less than $300, you can have GPS on your D700.
But 6d is very attractive for its siZe, and screen as well as wifi and GPS for traveling..... I am not sure I will depart my D700 yet.
I bought this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/825785-REG/Foolography_0100_Bundle_Unleashed_DX00_M_1200E_Receiver.html
For less than $300, you can have GPS on your D700.
May 04, 2013 at 07:35 AM
p.5 #20Which DSLR for manual focus, Why?
No you wont lose anything except af confirm w/o the chip.
I doubt shutter delay will be a thingy on the 6D as the video difference for any practical purposes. Then the thing with oem screens is that it is cheap and easy to switch.
AF would be the one reason to choose 5D3, it's that good and paired with a good copy of 24-70 it must be a superb combo. But I'd still pick 6D for the said reason, 5D2 AF is enough for me the few times I put on versatile Canon zooms.
I doubt you look back on the 12MP D700 after getting any of these. And Leitax is reversible anyway (for Canon mounts), at leastfor any lens I checked.
I have as I said not been investing in expensive adapters and had no infinity problems. But I guess you can be unlucky with cheap as you can with expensive. Goes for camera bodies and lenses too, so why not start with cheap was my take on it.
I doubt shutter delay will be a thingy on the 6D as the video difference for any practical purposes. Then the thing with oem screens is that it is cheap and easy to switch.
AF would be the one reason to choose 5D3, it's that good and paired with a good copy of 24-70 it must be a superb combo. But I'd still pick 6D for the said reason, 5D2 AF is enough for me the few times I put on versatile Canon zooms.
I doubt you look back on the 12MP D700 after getting any of these. And Leitax is reversible anyway (for Canon mounts), at leastfor any lens I checked.
I have as I said not been investing in expensive adapters and had no infinity problems. But I guess you can be unlucky with cheap as you can with expensive. Goes for camera bodies and lenses too, so why not start with cheap was my take on it.
May 04, 2013 at 07:36 AM