p.14 #1 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
Charlie N wrote:
my guess is that the AF will be at the level of the 5D2, which is ok, just not great. The AF on the 7D is really good, but you can make due with the legacy AF. At it's price point, all of the focus points should be cross type.
We already know its not the same as the 5d2 since the centre point is accurate to -3ev, not -0.5ev like the 5d2.
No information on the outer points. Anything is pure speculation.
p.14 #2 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
What's so odd about the 6D is that prior to its introduction Canon has demonstrated a willingness to both innovate and feature-populate its other DSLR models in order to stay competitive with Nikon. First with the 7D's body and AF upgrades, then the 5DM3's rich feature set/AF, and then the 1DX. Why revert back to old feature-depopulated habits on the 6D? Perhaps Canon just miscalculated what the D600 would be?
p.14 #3 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
dhphoto wrote:
Well no, using the gear I was brought up on you wouldn't have got the shot, unless you used supplementary lighting.
But still somehow we made a living with a usable maximum ASA of about 1250.
True, but then portrait artists were making a living before photography came along Tools develop and allow for more creativity and consistent results. As I'm still using a 1Ds2 my next body will be providing better ISO performance, I just need to decide if it's going to be Nikon or Canon because at the moment I'm not so sure...
p.14 #4 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
snapsy wrote:
What's so odd about the 6D is that prior to its introduction Canon has demonstrated a willingness to both innovate and feature-populate its other DSLR models in order to stay competitive with Nikon. First with the 7D's body and AF upgrades, then the 5DM3's rich feature set/AF, and then the 1DX. Why revert back to old feature-depopulated habits on the 6D? Perhaps Canon just miscalculated what the D600 would be?
I'm interested to see the AF of both the 6D and D600, because to be honest I'm edging more towards a system giving coverage for FF sensor (even with lesser points) than a crop derived system with all the points in the middle of the frame...
p.14 #5 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
snapsy wrote:
What's so odd about the 6D is that prior to its introduction Canon has demonstrated a willingness to both innovate and feature-populate its other DSLR models in order to stay competitive with Nikon. First with the 7D's body and AF upgrades, then the 5DM3's rich feature set/AF, and then the 1DX. Why revert back to old feature-depopulated habits on the 6D? Perhaps Canon just miscalculated what the D600 would be?
Yes. This is what struck me too.
Ignoring the "everything canon do is terrible because their sensor tech isn't as good as my friend" group (not taking away from those who genuinely need it), there has been a lot of positivity around most of their recent bodies. They are far from perfect but a real step in the right direction with the 5d, 5d2, 1dx, 7d and 5d3 each pushing forward in their own ways.
But the 6d just seems like it was put together quick. Maybe that's it - maybe they heard Nikon was producing something and needed to respond... But I doubt that since you can't make a new product that quick, surely??
It's innovation is gps and wifi, but they are pretty poor really.. Unless canon thinks they will appeal to the target audience?
p.14 #6 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
This seems to be the first Canon dslr that features 11-AF points not seen in other EOS dslrs. Why not just reuse the good old 9-pt AF from the 5dc/2 if they want to cut cost?
p.14 #7 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
Maybe people aren't waking up to canon. Maybe they're very happy with other cameras and think this one looks less great. Something to consider..
Thats certainly my position. For my market the 5d3 is the best camera around when you take everything into account, full stop, and one of my friends is leaving Nikon and his d4 and d3 and soon to be d800 behind to come over.
Clearly you're not happy with canon as a whole but it doesn't mean you're right, which the statement "waking up to" would imply.
You misinterpreted what I said, and yes, from the forum perspective, I am right.
Canon has been a day late, dollar short for years now on price/performance. There's no doubt that the 5d3 is a capable camera and at $2,700 is would be competitive. At $3500, it is not. The D600 offers much more than the 6d, which is a stripped down me-too response.
I have so much invested in Canon glass and equipment that it's hard to leave, but it doesn't meet my needs from a price performance perspective. I know other Canon users that are questioning their commitment. These are tools to many of us, not objects that inspire loyalty or worship. If you're smart, you buy the best tools you can afford, for the least amount of money to maximize your return.
Read other threads on other sites and tell me it's not 85%+ negative. Show me where people are saying, even in even numbers, that the 6d is (on paper) a decent offering. Show me the same for the 5d3, where it's probably 75%+ negative on the price/performance. Go to LL, POTN, DPR, any where you want and you'll find the same thing. Read the summary review published by DPR (Amazon). Doesn't matter, if you find canon users there, the over whelming response will not be positive.
You can disagree, but that doesn't make you right. not by along shot..
p.14 #8 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
M Lucca wrote:
This seems to be the first Canon dslr that features 11-AF points not seen in other EOS dslrs. Why not just reuse the good old 9-pt AF from the 5dc/2 if they want to cut cost?
This little bit is intriguing.
Uh. . . as I recall, the AF system from the two earlier 5D's took quite a bit of criticism. Surely, Canon got wind of that at some point! Rather than think they put in an even worse system here, I'll give Canon the benefit of the doubt for a while that the 11-point array is better. Waiting for results. . .
p.14 #9 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
M Lucca wrote:
This seems to be the first Canon dslr that features 11-AF points not seen in other EOS dslrs. Why not just reuse the good old 9-pt AF from the 5dc/2 if they want to cut cost?
This little bit is intriguing.
I guess they know how that would be received I'm sure they would want to distance themselves from 9 af points.
p.14 #10 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
The success of the 5d, 5d2 left canon with a problem, lots of second hand full frame cameras. IMHO the 6d has one main aim, to get would be full frame adopters to go new instead of used.
If the 5d3 had been higher MP count they could have kept more features in common between 6d and 5d3 and used MP as the differentiator.
p.14 #11 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
jamesf99 wrote:
You misinterpreted what I said, and yes, from the forum perspective, I am right.
Canon has been a day late, dollar short for years now on price/performance. There's no doubt that the 5d3 is a capable camera and at $2,700 is would be competitive. At $3500, it is not. The D600 offers much more than the 6d, which is a stripped down me-too response.
I have so much invested in Canon glass and equipment that it's hard to leave, but it doesn't meet my needs from a price performance perspective. I know other Canon users that are questioning their commitment. These are tools to many of us, not objects that inspire loyalty or worship. If you're smart, you buy the best tools you can afford, for the least amount of money to maximize your return.
Read other threads on other sites and tell me it's not 85%+ negative. Show me where people are saying, even in even numbers, that the 6d is (on paper) a decent offering. Show me the same for the 5d3, where it's probably 75%+ negative on the price/performance. Go to LL, POTN, DPR, any where you want and you'll find the same thing. Read the summary review published by DPR (Amazon). Doesn't matter, if you find canon users there, the over whelming response will not be positive.
You can disagree, but that doesn't make you right. not by along shot.. ...Show more →
I'm glad you are right.
I'm not saying they get everything right but neither do Nikon. Pop over there and read some one of issues.
p.14 #12 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
M Lucca wrote:
This seems to be the first Canon dslr that features 11-AF points not seen in other EOS dslrs. Why not just reuse the good old 9-pt AF from the 5dc/2 if they want to cut cost?
This little bit is intriguing.
I am not sure this addresses this remark completely, but I noticed this comment in the Preview of DPR:
However, like other full frame SLRs, one disadvantage is that the autofocus points are rather clustered towards the centre of the frame (increasing the coverage would require a larger body to accommodate the larger relay optics needed).
p.14 #13 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
I'm glad you are right.
I'm not saying they get everything right but neither do Nikon. Pop over there and read some one of issues.
You can't have it every way...
Don't have to and on that we agree. I don't think Nikon is perfect, nor is any camera that I know of today. If Canon would stop doing what they've been doing for the last 5-6 years I'd be happy, as I had been in the many prior decades of Canon usage.
I don't like being boned by any company, and with Canon, that's pretty much their whole shtick now. In 2007 I was in NY talking with a Canon guy about the soon to be released 1D3 when it started; Canon's last minute change to increase the price of the 1D3 from the already published $3999 to $4499 was the tipping point. Ever since then, it's been higher prices, less delivery with corner cutting, no more superior gear (compared to the competition), just "enough to get by".
p.14 #14 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
PhilDrinkwater wrote:
It's innovation is gps and wifi, but they are pretty poor really.. Unless canon thinks they will appeal to the target audience?
I am surprised.
GPS and wifi are pretty awesome. I've had them in GPS in my PnS - and wifi via Eyefi - for quite a while. There's nothing terribly innovative there other than putting what is becoming a standard comsumer feature in a dslr. Really, there's no reason for dslrs not to have those features now.
As I said before, this is an objectively nice camera, but isn't groundbreaking. If you think of it as the 5d2 replacement and an entry level full frame, I guess it's ok. I certainly expect the 5d2 to end production now or very soon (didn't see whether that's been done already). The 6D just doesn't appeal to most users on FM (or the like) because there's no wow factor. It's sort of the first full-frame XS. A nice camera, but obviously crippled. Time will tell if it succeeds. I guess it probably will, but that Nikon will take some market share and used 5d2s will remain quite popular for folks with a bit of knowledge and access to good used camera sources.
p.14 #15 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
Wow, 14 pages in on a camera no one has seen, touched, much less really used! Such "expertise" around here based upon a spec sheet.
I need a FF camera as I had to cash in my 1DsII to pay for the 1DIV upgrade demanded by my sports work. The 1DIV actually takes a nice pix at lower ISO but having shot for a long time with 1DsII, I can see and feel the difference in results.
Is the 6D an answer to my landscape/art needs? I don't think anyone has a clue at this point because: (1) no one knows what the AF will actually do, (2) no one knows just what the sensor/processor will produce, thus we are clueless as to the camera's IQ.
The form factor is certainly interesting and despite what some "experts" suggest there are no small number of us who do have to try to stop "action in the dark." Truly usable higher ISO is always good. WiFi and GPS certainly appeal to the "gadget group" though I can't see value added for my work.
My guess is that we are looking an interesting though hardly ground breaking camera on offer here that will drop in price and in the process hammer used 5DII and perhaps even 1DsIII prices. If it accomplishes this then I'd say it's a great cam as I'll be able to afford say a 1DsIII.
Again, so much expertise on so little data. Impressive.
Robert
(I do agree that this is hardly a ground breaking announcement, but then how long has it been since Canon did that? Does the 1Dx count as such?)
p.14 #16 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
As someone who has been researching my next camera upgrade. The initial specs and the dpreview leave me a bit underwhelmed. Will wait for a a few more hands on before I decide if this camera will be the one I put my cash on.
At least I know if I do go with this, I can now film myself posting my GPS location on Facebook in case I get lost. Don't know how I have lived without these features.... Oh wait I have them on my phone... /sarcasm
p.14 #18 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
I know there are examples of people who will just plunk down thousands of dollars on a camera without worrying about the cost, but surely they would buy the 5DIII as they are not price sensitive.
This has to be aimed at the upgrader - who will know how weak this offering is.
p.14 #19 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
Right now it appears that Canon is being run by the bean counters and marketers. And I can tell you they are smug in their projections because their predictions are going to work out.
It's a very simple thing that they don't understand, or maybe they understand and don't care, because the 6D will be a strong seller*, regardless of the negative reaction from the forums. Why is the 6D going to be a great profit center? Because the Canon brand, supply chain, marketing arm, production capabilities are way beyond any other camera manufacturer (excepting Sony). They are a huge fish in a small pond. So regardless of what you and I may think, the 6D will be a very good seller for Canon and it will validate their principles of cost-cutting and milking the customer.
What the current crop of Canon execs don't understand nor care about is that cameras like the 6D, where features are ruthlessly cost contained and features neutered to optimize niches, actually damage the brand in the long term. A professional Canon user may not buy a 6D but s/he gets asked all the time what kind of camera to get.
Woe be it to Canon if the Canon pros start saying that the 6D should be passed over for a D600. Things like that eventually erode the Canon brand and next thing you know (fast forward 5-10 years), companies like Sony, Samsung and Nikon are considered to be forward looking and hot brands.
As a Canon shooter, I get asked all the time which models are 'good ones' to get. Most of the time any model has it's pluses enough to recommend, and some are a *little* bit better than others. This time I'm telling people the Nikon D600 trounces the Canon 6D on paper, and most likely in the field as well.
I think the 6D would be great if they launched it at $1599. For $2099, get the Nikon D600. Another disappointing launch from Canon. I'm getting tired of being milked for +$500 here and a +$1000 there versus Nikon pro gear...I probably won't switch but I've lost a lot of respect for Canon in the last year.
*Even if the 6D's sales are flagging compared to the D600, the margin that Canon will make will allow them to push sales by lower the prices (on sale), or increasing the spiff (commission or margin) that the sales person will get. This may be a cynical way of looking at it, but it is the modern age of greed. :P
p.14 #20 · 20MP Canon 6D full frame DSLR announced!
OntheRez wrote:
Wow, 14 pages in on a camera no one has seen, touched, much less really used! Such "expertise" around here based upon a spec sheet.
....)
Ah, you don't need to actually hold this camera to be disappointed in it, the spec sheet does that well enough.
Tools develop and allow for more creativity and consistent results. As I'm still using a 1Ds2 my next body will be providing better ISO performance, I just need to decide if it's going to be Nikon or Canon because at the moment I'm not so sure...
I'm sure they would want to distance themselves from 9 af points. 