edwardkaraa wrote:
I am willing to bet we will not see any other FF mirrorless in this year, and probably not even next year. Unless Ricoh wakes up, but I have the feeling they gave up on the GXR. Look at the new Zeiss AF line. It's only for APS-C and there is a reason for that.
I don't think it will be this year but possibly in the Spring.. From what you guys are saying, it sounds like it could be at least 7mo before the M actually ships. That seems like a very long time at the rate new digital cameras are showing up.
Edward. I agree with you, if the price gap between a used M9 or a M-E is close enough, a new M-E with the 2 years warranty makes more sense, that is if you don't mind the "trendy" color for the M-E?
I really commend Leica for what they did. Prior to the launch, I saw no need to upgrade from a M9 but now I want one. Was thinking do I really need video or live view or more megapixels? But after the launch, I felt Leica really made the necessary improvements that quite a few current M users were looking for and added a few other features that seemed like a "bonus" especially given the price point.
And I'm sure the new M will interest quite a few indie videomakers as well. $7000 for a body and $12000 for a lens is cheap in moviespeak, especially with the possibility of shooting live view and external battery packs, etc on the M and using all the nice compact M glass on a full frame sensor. Lets hope it works out well for everyone.
ocean2059 wrote:
Second, with the R adapter, I can now use my 100/180 APO lenses, which will really make the new M an ideal travel camera. In the past, I always have to take a DSLR to cover the long end. Even then, I had to deal with different color profiles of different makers. I am looking forward to the new M (I retract my private comments to you on the new M - I will get one!)
Good for you! No Leica S for now?
Not sure if bringing those larger R lenses and adapters on vacation might save weight but an R adapter and a 28-70 and 80-200 zoom might be fun ... but I agree with you, I always "had" to bring a second camera kit for extended vacations for video,etc and it was never fun... and the pp neede to match different camera profiles was also tiresome.
no AA filter - confirmed by Daniel
also the design is pretty much final, so if you don't like the square buttons, you'll have to live with it...
chrome info button will stay chrome even on the black camera....
LCD misalignment is part of the LCD housing, that's the way it is...
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I don't think it will be this year but possibly in the Spring.. From what you guys are saying, it sounds like it could be at least 7mo before the M actually ships. That seems like a very long time at the rate new digital cameras are showing up.
But who do you think would do it? I had in mind 3 major players, Sony, Fuji and Ricoh. I was almost sure Sony would do it first, but they introduced the RX1 instead, so this pushes the FF IL body at least a year IMHO. And now the new line from Zeiss makes me doubt it a bit more. Zeiss must have obtained the cooperation of Sony and Fuji to get all the AF and electronics right. If there was any FF body in the near future, do you think Zeiss would have designed APS-C only lenses? I am probably wrong but let's wait and see
edwardkaraa wrote:
If there was any FF body in the near future, do you think Zeiss would have designed APS-C only lenses? I am probably wrong but let's wait and see
I think it's mostly because of the successful sale of the 24/1.8. Zeiss, like other companies, is more interested in the bottom line. They would wait for Sony to release a FF NEX first before announcing any AF FF lens. They still need the "cheap" APS-C line no matter what to fund their pet project.
Leica apparently has a big surprise in the M––A vastly improved Dynamic Exposure Range (Without the amateur tricks of multiple "HDR" exposures.
The CMOSIS sensor patents speak of changes to the A to D detector circuit that deliver a 90db dynamic range. That's essentially 14 photographic stops and it's done with one exposure from one photo site. A very fast processor will be required and M users can expect to suffer current/battery challenges.
I'm not hawking Leica here and prefer scanned film simplicities via Zeiss Ikon with M & ZM lenses to eliminate sensor obsolescence and recapture lost portability.
However, recent moves made by Leica, especially the under–appreciated Monochrom with its added B&W resolution, and new products seen in Cologne should be encouraging to Leica lovers. Sure they will be expensive and maybe few will opt for the $7,000 50f/2 AA Summicron M but there are loads of nascent M8 buyers rubbing their hands to get into the range finder arena.
Thanks for posting this Edward! Lots of nice tidbits in it. I think the automatic actuation of focus peaking in live view when the camera detects rangefinder cam movement is a slick implementation!
rscheffler wrote:
Thanks for posting this Edward! Lots of nice tidbits in it. I think the automatic actuation of focus peaking in live view when the camera detects rangefinder cam movement is a slick implementation!
Sure! And it is so interesting to see Leica experts like Farkas and Overgaard so enthusiastic about this camera.
sector99 wrote:
Leica apparently has a big surprise in the M––A vastly improved Dynamic Exposure Range (Without the amateur tricks of multiple "HDR" exposures.
The CMOSIS sensor patents speak of changes to the A to D detector circuit that deliver a 90db dynamic range. That's essentially 14 photographic stops and it's done with one exposure from one photo site. A very fast processor will be required and M users can expect to suffer current/battery challenges.
I'm not hawking Leica here and prefer scanned film simplicities via Zeiss Ikon with M & ZM lenses to eliminate sensor obsolescence and recapture lost portability.
However, recent moves made by Leica, especially the under–appreciated Monochrom with its added B&W resolution, and new products seen in Cologne should be encouraging to Leica lovers. Sure they will be expensive and maybe few will opt for the $7,000 50f/2 AA Summicron M but there are loads of nascent M8 buyers rubbing their hands to get into the range finder arena.
This is not a trivial achievement for the M....Show more →
Maybe this is what we're seeing in the early M samples? A wide dynamic range will result in somewhat lower out of camera impact, or punch. Thinking about this a bit... sounds kind of similar to the MM's straight out of camera rendering... Just means one needs a more aggressive PP preset in LR, etc.
BTW, according to Thorsten Overgaard, in his long rambling M9 review - Leica intentionally tuned the M8/9 to resemble Kodachrome.
edwardkaraa wrote:
But who do you think would do it? I had in mind 3 major players, Sony, Fuji and Ricoh. I was almost sure Sony would do it first, but they introduced the RX1 instead, so this pushes the FF IL body at least a year IMHO. And now the new line from Zeiss makes me doubt it a bit more. Zeiss must have obtained the cooperation of Sony and Fuji to get all the AF and electronics right. If there was any FF body in the near future, do you think Zeiss would have designed APS-C only lenses? I am probably wrong but let's wait and see ...Show more →
So let's not forget that Sony did announce a FF NEX, it just happens to be in the shape of a video camera. It's a fairly smart move on their part, in my opinion. It gives their high-quality-in-a-tiny-package video line something no one else has without jeopardizing their a99 sales, and gives them another body that can work directly with the Alpha mount lenses.
Whatever the case, if Sony decides to make a still-shooter oriented FF NEX, something tells me their main focus isn't going to be making sure it plays well with RF lenses. Ricoh may try, but that doesn't seem likely to me, since it would be an expensive proposition for a company that does not, to my knowledge, currently produce any M-mount lenses. My guess is that, even if we do see another FF mirrorless wonder, the M will be the camera of choice for good performance with RF lenses.
freaklikeme wrote:
My guess is that, even if we do see another FF mirrorless wonder, the M will be the camera of choice for good performance with RF lenses.
... but I agree with you, I always "had" to bring a second camera kit for extended vacations for video,etc and it was never fun... and the pp neede to match different camera profiles was also tiresome.