edwardkaraa wrote:
So who is going to get one? We have Charles, Luka, Morty, possibly Ron?
As for me, I think my plan is taking shape nicely.
When the ME is available in a couple of weeks, I will get one (or a used M9 if the prices drop significantly) and keep the GXR as back up. When the M is available well into 2013, I will sell the GXR and keep the other ME/9 body as back up.
I'm in for sure, just don't want to be a beta tester. If it's really coming out in April, it's too late for
my trips in the beginning of 2013 anyway, so I can wait a bit longer... I will have to survive a few months with RX1
Why not keep it as it is, the M9 is the first FF digital rangefinder (including mirror), the M is the first FF digital rangefinder with also has LV and the option of an EVF. But still just has a mirror
Sorry, what? None of the M-cameras have mirrors?
Off course they do, its in the rangefindersystem. U can see it trough the window at the front
denoir wrote:
Damn, haven't thought of that I'll miss that lens more than any other.. But sure, I'd like it to find a good new home - so I'll PM you when the time comes. It will probably take until April or so before the M is out though...
If this happens, Sebboh, I'll take your c/y 35/1.4.
rscheffler wrote:
I'm liking the M more and more, but will let Charles and Joe88 be the early adopter testers.
Ron, I'm not in a rush for the new M but will definitely want one. It may be a long wait.
For me its not about image quality, my RX100 is decent enough for IQ up to large prints. I know many on this forum are only concerned about IQ, and in that case there are many other options, starting from the D800E right up to a Phase One with IQ80 (edit I meant IQ180) back. For me it about rangefinder shooting with the OVF and a great set of lenses. At the price point of these Leica's its never about needs but wants? I think the new M and Mono will make a good pairing... back to the old days of loading two cameras, one with color film and the other with B&W film.
edwardkaraa wrote:
I heard from forum members that Leica colors are not nice out of the camera, and that it needs a lot of tweaking in PP. Many have custom profiles made for their M8/9. So I will have to see for myself if I like the colors OOC or not.
As for the ME, honestly I expect all the problems of the M9 to have been resolved after 4 years and in a new/old clone that is basically the same body. It's a sure value I believe. The M is now the unknown entity, no body knows how it will perform in real world use. It might turn out to have problems, and we will have to wait for serious reviews and reports on actual use. I am not going to wait 6 months without a FF camera only to find out that it's not for me. Well, that is my reasoning, and it makes sense for me ...Show more →
Edward, from what I understand and you can probably also google it, Leica had in mind a specific color "palate" for the M9 sensor, it is saturated in specific colors, in my mind the reds and yellows and there is a "bias" towards a specific film stock that is no longer in production. So it is not exactly neutral per se. However, I agree with Ron and many others, the look of the M9 files is definitely different from all other current CMOS sensors on 35mm format, and I have shot many full frame DSLRs, plus we should not forget that there is almost no "bad" lenses for the M9, even the budget priced CV lenses are very good IQ wise, at least most of them.
As to reliabiliy of the M-E, it will have to be tested out to see if there are improvements. Just FYI, my new M Monochrom has the same set of problems I have on my 3 years old M9 , the software is buggy, I am not able to switch from playback to other functions quickly like other digital cameras, else the camera freezes. So it remains to be seen if the M-E actually improves on the M9/ Monochrom.
douglasf13 wrote:
The 1/4000 shutters are also quieter. I'd imagine that they sacrificed speed for volume.
Interestingly, Leica has been touting the low volume of the shutter in the ME. I wonder if it is any different than the M9's shutter.
Just read that the shutter sound of the M is about the same as the ME (and M9) but that it is of a shorter duration.
Also of possible interest, the Olympus made EVF as well as the LV feed to rear LCD are at only 30fps so EVF will not be a good choice for anything moving quickly (you will see frame dropouts/ stutter). I think anyone using a Leica M based camera would certainly want to take advantage of the OVF anyway but this could possibly matter for those adapting other lenses and relying on the EVF.
Bijltje wrote:
I personally can't be bothered if its a CCD or CMOS and if it comes from sony, canon or leica themself. As long as I like the colors.
Same here I trust Leica enough to know what and how to tweak on the new M CMOS sensor to keep the look somewhat consistent with the M9 but also we should not forget that good lenses also plays a very important part to the look of the files.
carstenw wrote:
So, you think Leica should add more field curvature, smudgy corners and gnarly boke? That is surely an opinion, but not one I share. Zeiss makes great lenses, and I love mine (I have about 10), but none of them can touch the 21SE, 28 Cron, 50 Lux ASPH and 90 Cron ASPH, IMO.
Yes, these choices are personal and I for one don't like the clinical sharpness of the modern lenses, and I have several. I do like my 50 Summilux ASPH though. Fortunately the older lenses are well built and there is no shortage of competent techs so there is wide variety.
Bijltje wrote:
Just out of curiosity, what is it u miss? As far as I can see they put all the gadgets in the M body people were shouting about, and also kept a pure rangefinder next to it in production. What more is there to ask?
Reliability.
edwardkaraa wrote:
With all due respect, this is hilarious! Leica have made the first digital FF RF in history, and now, they make the first FF mirrorless body in history complete with LV, focus peaking, EVF, and an optical rangefinder on the top of that. This is something even crazy Sony didn't dare to do.
You know, I really don't care about who was first with what. I would buy a Leica digital if it was reliable, and if it could produce excellent IQ at high ISO. It's not clear to me that the new cameras are any better than the old ones in this respect. 95% of my photography is B&W film anyway, so a P&S that takes Leica lenses is totally adequate for what I use color for.
I saw that yesterday and mentioned it here in conjunction with Leica's recent attempts to emulate Apple's marketing techniques: I guess if you're going to copy someone, who better right?
joe88 wrote:
Ron, I'm not in a rush for the new M but will definitely want one. It may be a long wait.
For me its not about image quality, my RX100 is decent enough for IQ up to large prints. I know many on this forum are only concerned about IQ, and in that case there are many other options, starting from the D800E right up to a Phase One with IQ80 (edit I meant IQ180) back. For me it about rangefinder shooting with the OVF and a great set of lenses. At the price point of these Leica's its never about needs but wants? I think the new M and Mono will make a good pairing... back to the old days of loading two cameras, one with color film and the other with B&W film....Show more →
Joe,
I totally agree with your comments here.
I want to add two points here for the new M: First, with the EVF, I will enjoy using my WATE a lot more without the large "frankenstein" add-on finder. Second, with the R adapter, I can now use my 100/180 APO lenses, which will really make the new M an ideal travel camera. In the past, I always have to take a DSLR to cover the long end. Even then, I had to deal with different color profiles of different makers. I am looking forward to the new M (I retract my private comments to you on the new M - I will get one!)
I wonder what kind of "sensible" design they can come up with... It's always in the name of charity that people can spend money on such a thing without feeling guilty.
I believe the M digitals have been and will likely continue to be buggy and need repair trips from time to time, whatever the model (which has been my experience with two M8's and an M9). I put up with it - I see it as just the price to pay to be able to use my M lenses for digital capture in a form factor I enjoy and trust.
Fwiw, my plan is similar to Edward's. I'll use my M9 well into 2013 (and probably beyond as back-up), saving for either a Monochrom or the M, and watch how more experienced folks get on with the M.
Clearly the first M camera I have to read the user manual for
edit, had myself put on the list as well, the more I read about it, the more it gets my intrest
Good for you Robert. Unfortunately I can't put myself on a waiting list, as this is a camera I would want to purchase from a local Leica authorized dealer, even if it cost me about 500$ extra. The reason is that for repairs or maintenance under warranty, I don't need to worry about sending it to Leica as the dealer will take care of that.
joe88 wrote:
Edward, from what I understand and you can probably also google it, Leica had in mind a specific color "palate" for the M9 sensor, it is saturated in specific colors, in my mind the reds and yellows and there is a "bias" towards a specific film stock that is no longer in production. So it is not exactly neutral per se. However, I agree with Ron and many others, the look of the M9 files is definitely different from all other current CMOS sensors on 35mm format, and I have shot many full frame DSLRs, plus we should not forget that there is almost no "bad" lenses for the M9, even the budget priced CV lenses are very good IQ wise, at least most of them.
As to reliabiliy of the M-E, it will have to be tested out to see if there are improvements. Just FYI, my new M Monochrom has the same set of problems I have on my 3 years old M9 , the software is buggy, I am not able to switch from playback to other functions quickly like other digital cameras, else the camera freezes. So it remains to be seen if the M-E actually improves on the M9/ Monochrom. ...Show more →
Thanks for the info, Joe. I hope the bugs have been removed in the ME, but they won't bother me much, I guess. Remains for me to see if I would buy a new ME or a used M9. If the difference is only around 1000$ I would prefer to buy new, but I hope the M9 prices would drop below 4000$ to make it worthwhile for me. I'm very selfish, sorry M9 owners
I can really see the new M appealing to a much larger group than any previous Leica. I do suspect the huge lead time before availability might end up being an issue for all but the most diehard rangefinder users though. Who wants to bet there will be another FF mirrorless option available (which accepts interchangeable lenses) by the time the M ships?
Tariq Gibran wrote:
I can really see the new M appealing to a much larger group than any previous Leica. I do suspect the huge lead time before availability might end up being an issue for all but the most diehard rangefinder users though. Who wants to bet there will be another FF mirrorless option available (which accepts interchangeable lenses) by the time the M ships?
I am willing to bet we will not see any other FF mirrorless in this year, and probably not even next year. Unless Ricoh wakes up, but I have the feeling they gave up on the GXR. Look at the new Zeiss AF line. It's only for APS-C and there is a reason for that.
I'll miss that lens more than any other.. But sure, I'd like it to find a good new home - so I'll PM you when the time comes. It will probably take until April or so before the M is out though...