p.29 #1 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Jman13 wrote:
I thought the D600 was supposed to be the 'affordable' full frame option. That's only $200 less than the D800. Why would anybody go that route? I have to think the D600 will be about $2000 US or less.
The Nikon Rumors states that Japan prices are a bit higher than US prices. The indicative D600 U.S. price using their price analysis of the previously released D800 is $2,100. This probably means it will be priced at $1,999 or $2,099 in the United States. If it was priced at $2,700, I would rather buy the D800 since the price difference is not that large.
p.29 #2 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
I uderstood that the wanted to keep the D600 well below 2000 ( USD or EUR, depending on where you are ). This way, the Sony seem more interesting if you can do with a fixed lens camera.
p.29 #3 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
theSuede wrote:
49mm, classic diameter.
A sobering thought:
-If they released an RX1-24, an RX1-35, an RX1-50 and an RX1-85 it would STILL be about 8-10 thousand dollars cheaper to buy all four cameras than to buy an M9 with the corresponding new-series summicrons.
[edit]
Looked at the Leica Summi prices again. Change the "8-10k USD cheaper" I stated above to "15-17k USD cheaper"
Yeah but you can't use those lenses on a new body. Let's say a nex-14 or Leica m-12 comes out, you're stuck with the same rx1 sensor forrrrrrrever!
I suppose you could always sell and rebuy the new generation though.
p.29 #4 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
FlyPenFly wrote:
Yeah but you can't use those lenses on a new body. Let's say a nex-14 or Leica m-12 comes out, you're stuck with the same rx1 sensor forrrrrrrever!
.
True, but I think others touched on the fact that is there really anything else you'd want?. A high quality FF sensor & lens will age well, regardless of what else comes out. Of course, if you want to buy-sell-buy-sell etc you will lose some money but if you're happy from the beginning, I think it could last someone a long time.
Look at the a900 for example. A great full-frame sensor at low ISO, people always laughed at it for higher ISO, but there are still a good number of people 4 years down the line using it and enjoying it (even some professionals...). Sure, there wasn't an a900 replacement, but my point is that despite it's supposed floors it's strengths are still valued today (ff sensor, good build, great ovf, sss, zeiss af). If we then look at the RX1... it has the high res FFsensor that does high iso as well, as well as what we assume is a high quality zeiss lens, with the latest EVF, which can still be upgraded.
So, my point isn't that it won't lose market value (as it of course will). But that it's still going to be a pretty damn good camera, 5-6 years down the line (assuming it all works & stuff!!)
p.29 #6 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
jonrock wrote:
The Nikon Rumors states that Japan prices are a bit higher than US prices. The indicative D600 U.S. price using their price analysis of the previously released D800 is $2,100. This probably means it will be priced at $1,999 or $2,099 in the United States. If it was priced at $2,700, I would rather buy the D800 since the price difference is not that large.
p.29 #7 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
What I have not heard mentioned yet about the RX1 is control layout. It would have made a lot of sense for Sony to have a shutter speed dial on top. As it is, if you are using this for discreet shooting, you are either forced to have the LCD screen on to see what shutter speed you are shooting at (not so hot for street/ stealthy use) or simply shoot without knowing what SS the camera has set (assuming you are shooting from the hip, without EVF to take advantage of the AF/ silent shutter). Seems like a big oversight to make force the LCD screen to be used to confirm such basic settings as SS (and ISO for that matter).
p.29 #8 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
ricardovaste wrote:
ere
Would this really be anything new ? The a850 was $1999.99. Older now of course, but I thought it was going to be *really cheap*.
No way will the actual price of the D600 be only $200 or so cheaper than the D800. Beyond the sensor, the body is nowhere even close to the build of the D800. I think the D600 will actually be $1000 or so cheaper than D800.
p.29 #10 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
What I have not heard mentioned yet about the RX1 is control layout. It would have made a lot of sense for Sony to have a shutter speed dial on top. As it is, if you are using this for discreet shooting, you are either forced to have the LCD screen on to see what shutter speed you are shooting at (not so hot for street/ stealthy use) or simply shoot without knowing what SS the camera has set (assuming you are shooting from the hip, without EVF to take advantage of the AF/ silent shutter). Seems like a big oversight to make force the LCD screen to be used to confirm such basic settings as SS (and ISO for that matter). ...Show more →
Compared to what though ? Leica? Fujis? I think it's pretty normal these days to either look in the viewfinder for exposure, or glance to the LCD. This is what most modern cameras are like, it's really only a Leica or a 'retro' designed camera that has the shutter speed dial. Not saying I wouldn't prefer this of course.
p.29 #11 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Jman13 wrote:
One funny thing about this camera: Sony may have set a new (non-Leica) record for ridiculous prices on accessories.
If you want the optical hotshoe viewfinder, the lens hood and an added thumb rest, you can add over $1,000 to the cost of the camera. They're pricing the viewfinder at $599, the lens hood at $179 and the thumb rest at $249!
I mean, come on...$600 for a tiny optical viewfinder? It's not like it has to resolve 40lp at 24MP...it has to frame the image for your eye. This makes the $200 I paid for my excellent EVF on the GX1 seem like the deal of the century. And the $179 lens hood (that isn't even large) makes the $80 hoods on Olympus' premium lenses look reasonable. I won't even get into the thumb rest.......Show more →
The OVF is a 35mm version of the ZM finders, which are bloody expensive (street price on them is $399USD right now) but they're also the best external optical finders on the market, new or used. MSRP at $600 sounds right, I expect street price will be the same as the ZM finders.
p.29 #12 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
ricardovaste wrote:
Compared to what though ? Leica? Fujis? I think it's pretty normal these days to either look in the viewfinder for exposure, or glance to the LCD. This is what most modern cameras are like, it's really only a Leica or a 'retro' designed camera that has the shutter speed dial. Not saying I wouldn't prefer this of course.
Yes, compared to Fuji (x100, XE1, X-Pro1) and Leica, which are designed better for stealthy shooting. At least when I shoot with the intention of not bringing attention to myself, I don't pull the camera up to my eye! I shoot from the hip. I just think the form of this camera IS aiming for that group but the control layout works against the intended use. It really seems like an obvious misstep to me.
Since there is no viewfinder, putting one on top and looking through it is definitely not going to be stealthy.
p.29 #13 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Tariq Gibran wrote:
What I have not heard mentioned yet about the RX1 is control layout. It would have made a lot of sense for Sony to have a shutter speed dial on top. As it is, if you are using this for discreet shooting, you are either forced to have the LCD screen on to see what shutter speed you are shooting at (not so hot for street/ stealthy use) or simply shoot without knowing what SS the camera has set (assuming you are shooting from the hip, without EVF to take advantage of the AF/ silent shutter). Seems like a big oversight to make force the LCD screen to be used to confirm such basic settings as SS (and ISO for that matter). ...Show more →
Well I think if you're a super discreet shooter shooting with a fixed lens, you can just set the shutter speed to where you want it and let the camera figure out aperture and ISO from that.
p.29 #14 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
mawz wrote:
The OVF is a 35mm version of the ZM finders, which are bloody expensive (street price on them is $399USD right now) but they're also the best external optical finders on the market, new or used. MSRP at $600 sounds right, I expect street price will be the same as the ZM finders.
Yes, the Zeiss finders are the best...and since there is now a standard hotshoe, ANY OVF can be used.
One big issue though is that if you use the EVF, you can't use the thumbs up type grip or the flash. The pic of the thumbs up does not show electronic pass through as Douglas had suggested.
p.29 #16 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
FlyPenFly wrote:
Well I think if you're a super discreet shooter shooting with a fixed lens, you can just set the shutter speed to where you want it and let the camera figure out aperture and ISO from that.
Sure - unless yo want to know what aperture has been set. You could preset everything but often with quick shooting where you are moving around a lot, exp requirements change rather quickly. It just would have made a huge useability difference having an analog SS dial on top, particularly since Sony gives you the analog aperture on the lens. The settings used by the dial on top could have easily been put somewhere else imo.
p.29 #18 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
FlyPenFly wrote:
Yeah I think an extra dial would have made sense as long as it wasn't stupidly easy to move like the X100 EC dial.
It would have made a lot of sense, particularly with the expected superb high ISO ability of the sensor. For instance, you could set an AUTO ISO mode in the main menu and just set whatever SS and F stop you wanted physically/visually on the camera, with the camera adjusting ISO on the fly for correct exp. That's a setting I use all the time with the Pentax K-5.
p.29 #19 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
Tariq, I do understand. The shutter dial and lack of VF do send mixed messages about the intended user group. I guess the plus side of this is, as mentioned, the EVF is upgradeable. And as for the ergonomics, I think for Sony it's about keeping it relatively consistent with it's other cameras. For Sony to throw in a manual shutter dial, it could almost seem a bit gimmicky, which might sound odd.
As for shooting from the hip, I use SLR's with no top shutter dial and a viewfinder. It can be done, and it's not a pain, or clumsy, it works well. My method is simple, I use the spot meter to guesstimate something similar in the scene to what I'll shoot, lock the exposure. If I can see I'm mocking somewhere different quickly (exposure-wise) I simply spin the rear dial, which for me is exposure compensation. Or often if the lighting suits it, I find aperture priority works fine.
With the RX1, shooting from the hip with the aperture ring + aperture priority + AEL + rear wheel would work well as far as I can see, pretty identical to how I use my SLR. No, it's not a Leica, but as you well know 'stealth' has more to do with how you act than what you use :-)
p.29 #20 · Sony RX1 FF Mirrorless (Original 2012 thread)
ricardovaste wrote:
Tariq, I do understand. The shutter dial and lack of VF do send mixed messages about the intended user group. I guess the plus side of this is, as mentioned, the EVF is upgradeable. And as for the ergonomics, I think for Sony it's about keeping it relatively consistent with it's other cameras. For Sony to throw in a manual shutter dial, it could almost seem a bit gimmicky, which might sound odd.
As for shooting from the hip, I use SLR's with no top shutter dial and a viewfinder. It can be done, and it's not a pain, or clumsy, it works well. My method is simple, I use the spot meter to guesstimate something similar in the scene to what I'll shoot, lock the exposure. If I can see I'm mocking somewhere different quickly (exposure-wise) I simply spin the rear dial, which for me is exposure compensation. Or often if the lighting suits it, I find aperture priority works fine.
With the RX1, shooting from the hip with the aperture ring + aperture priority + AEL + rear wheel would work well as far as I can see, pretty identical to how I use my SLR. No, it's not a Leica, but as you well know 'stealth' has more to do with how you act than what you use :-) ...Show more →
Yeah, you can certainly make it work.
Maybe Sony/ Zeiss are saving the complete physical SS dial and built in finder for the digital Zeiss Ikon! With Sony releasing this camera, thy could certainly build an incredible body for Zeiss.
and the thumb rest at $249!