millsart wrote:
You've got to question how good of sample a place like DPR is though as it often can be populated with either total fanboys, or whatever the opposite of a fanboy would be called.
Case in point, there are people there who feel it is their life's purpose to "warn" others not to buy a X100 simply because their wives sister's friend knows a guy who couldn't get a grey market camera with no receipt serviced. You get people posting the same stuff under different names, posting bad reviews on Amazon multiple times etc all with the the same sentence context and structure.
Its not to say things don't happen, but I hardly think it really matches the overall reality for all users and all cameras sold.
Its merely a small microcosm that is either going to attract the fanatic or typically those with an issue.
For most consumers, the only reason to frequent such a place is if there is a problem. Most photographers simply shoot, they don't feel the need to spend equal, if not greater time, discussing their gear, as we do here and on other forums. We are a very small minority.
My Mitsubishi Eclipse was having a/c issue and I looked for threads on a Eclipse forum. I liked the car but I hardly had any interest hanging out on a forum talking about them day after day. I only went to one because I had question.
That is why most normal, sane people post on DPR. To ask a specific question. As such, the reports of issues are going to be higher because when everything works fine, most people would rather shoot with their cameras than sit at a PC talking about them.
Most people don't buy a new camera and think "boy, I can't wait to get home and start defending the virtues of this camera on the internet", rather they just go take some pictures
Agreed. But Douglas just wanted examples of SAB. That's the place to look for people reporting problems. I'm not saying those problems are prevalent or common, just that they are out there still, 1 year after SAB first showed up. Had Fuji truly fixed this problem, SAB would have been history by now. SAB is not a fact of life for almost every other camera.
rattymouse wrote:
Agreed. But Douglas just wanted examples of SAB. That's the place to look for people reporting problems. I'm not saying those problems are prevalent or common, just that they are out there still, 1 year after SAB first showed up. Had Fuji truly fixed this problem, SAB would have been history by now. SAB is not a fact of life for almost every other camera.
Nope, I want examples of SAB with cameras that have a serial number that is 21xxx or later, meaning made in the first quarter of this year. I'm fully aware of all of the issues with serial 14xxx and prior. I still can't find any on the site you mentioned, or dpreview, or fujix-forum.com, save for that one Black edition post.
douglasf13 wrote:
Nope, I want examples of SAB with cameras that have a serial number that is 21xxx or later, meaning made in the first quarter of this year. I'm fully aware of all of the issues with serial 14xxx and prior. I still can't find any on the site you mentioned, or dpreview, or fujix-forum.com, save for that one Black edition post.
Well, you'll have to wait and see as stock from this year gets sold. SAB has shown up as early as a month after purchase to close to a year. It is far too early to say if this issue is over.
Things do look promising though with regard to the lack of SAB and recent x100 manufacturing. My issue - as well as many others I have read about - was noticeable within about two months of my purchase (and at around 1000 clicks or so). Half of this year is over so at the very least we can say it's not showing up either as soon as or with the frequency it was towards the end of last year.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
Things do look promising though with regard to the lack of SAB and recent x100 manufacturing. My issue - as well as many others I have read about - was noticeable within about two months of my purchase (and at around 1000 clicks or so). Half of this year is over so at the very least we can say it's not showing up either as soon as or with the frequency it was towards the end of last year.
Besides that, I don't think its exactly rocket science for Fuji's engineer's to have figured out what the issue was and correct it. The sheer cost motivator alone would of been huge as it surely couldn't be cheap performing all the warranty service they did, not to mention bad press.
I simply don't buy the arguments of those who make claims stating things like Fuji still has no idea whats happening or how to solve it. I think Fuji was very quickly able to figure out what the issue was. It was perhaps the marketing dept that was left scratching their heads on how to acknowledge and deal with the issue.
Agreed, Tariq. Between all of the reports that the module was redesigned in Dec., reports that Fuji USA has had few, if any, 21xxx serials have the issue, and only a single mention on forums of a black edition issue back in March, I think things are looking pretty good. 21xxx cameras have been in user's hands for 3-4 months, which is plenty of time for at least a handful of sab issues to start popping up.
I'm still having fun with this camera, although I've just been shooting around the house. It's certainly quirky, but I'm figuring out settings that make the most sense to me, and I really enjoy using the X100. I have a feeling that the next iteration of the X100, whenever that comes, will really be fantastic.
douglasf13 wrote:
I'm still having fun with this camera, although I've just been shooting around the house. It's certainly quirky, but I'm figuring out settings that make the most sense to me, and I really enjoy using the X100. I have a feeling that the next iteration of the X100, whenever that comes, will really be fantastic.
My only concern with the X100 replacement is that Fuji may very well use the X-Pro1 sensor with it's wacky RGB arrangement and raw issues in it.
I briefly had the X-Pro1 and think the sensor was one of the best parts of the camera, fantastic performance. The issue it seems is rather related to ACR, et al; not being able to figure out how to get the best results from it, perhaps due to Fuji not being helpful, but I don't think the issue is the technology itself is inherently flawed.
Tariq Gibran wrote:
My only concern with the X100 replacement is that Fuji may very well use the X-Pro1 sensor with it's wacky RGB arrangement and raw issues in it.
Good point. After seeing all of those shots that you posted with the X-Pro1, I'd be afraid of the same. As theSuede mentioned, it may be an advantage for high ISO, but no so much for low ISO, and I'd prefer better low-mid ISO.
I got a used one yesterday and it has a strange bug. I haven't found any other mention of it, but wasn't sure if the sticky aperture issue might have just drowned it out.
If the LCD or EVF is on, pressing the white balance button (down on the directional controller) results in the WB menu appearing for a split second and then disappearing. It is as if the camera registers a down press and a back button press simultaneously. If I press harder than normal a bit higher on the controller the WB menu will appear correctly about 3/4 of the time. If I use the down direction button in this menu, the camera will register a down movement followed quickly by a back/exit selection.
So I thought - great - bad button.
Except it's not a bad button (or if it is, the firmware coders made allowances for it in some modes, but not others). If I am in playback mode, or if I am using the OVF, the WB button works perfectly. Does anyone else have the same problem or does my camera just have more character than yours? :-)
(I have the latest firmware)
The guy I bought it from offered to take it back, but since there is a workaround, and it will be on AUTO WB for most of its life, I don't think I care enough for that.
Mine (12xxx) did crash with firmware 1.13 and had to be reseted once a day. It even was at the service ,which did not find something. It is gone with newer firmwares.
So it seems there are unit specific bugs.
I turned the audio back on and confirmed that the camera is registering two key presses (beeps) when I hit the WB button in the shooting mode with the LCD on and only one key press (beep) with it off.
What is the most likely way to successfully get something in front of Fuji's firmware team?
Since it doesn't have the problem in most modes, it would probably be a pretty easy fix to drop into a firmware revision - i.e., look for any differences between the input monitoring code/interrupt handler between the the LCD being on and being off that might cause a different interpretation of the input from the directional controller - and modify to match the code that works.
I wouldn't mind making a write up and/or video describing what is going on if I thought I could actually get it in front of an engineer. I could make a better case if I could find someone else that has the same bug.
I haven't had the camera long enough to know off hand how to do this, but have you tried resetting the camera, or somehow tried to reinstall the firmware? I wonder if that could work??
Tariq Gibran wrote:
If two key presses are occurring with the press of the button, it very well (unfortunately) could be a hardware issue with the button.
That was what I thought initially, but if it were a hardware problem that would occur on any press of the button. Why does it not behave in the same manner with the LCD off?
The bug is:
Present - LCD (or EVF) is on in shooting mode
Not Present - The LCD is on and I have entered the menu - I can browse the menu using the down button.
Not Present - LCD and EVF are off in shooting mode (i.e., I'm using the OVF).
Present - In playback mode when a face is detected (where the down button is used to zoom in on the detected face).
Not Present - In playback mode when a face has not been detected in the current photo, the down button cycles through the various display modes perfectly.
It's not a hit or miss thing. The above behavior is 100% repeatable. There are other examples of the bug being context dependent, but I think you get the idea.
