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Archive 2012 · Sony Zeiss RX100

  
 
DavidWEGS
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p.28 #1 · Sony Zeiss RX100


millsart wrote:
It seems that a softer right corner is a pretty common issue, and an issue I really don't think is too unique to the RX100.

Basically I think its a question of "are we asking too much" and "compared to what" ?

Is it reasonable to expect edge to edge sharpness over the entire focal length ?

What are we comparing this point and shoot camera to ? A Zeiss 100mm ZE ?

To each his own of course, but I'd say if I had to have any optical defect in the zoom, I'd want it at 100mm as thats what I shoot
...Show more

Ok, I hear you but…

#1. Its a defect in the lens, or lens design. A defect. Not simply a soft corner at the long end of the zoom, but a clear defect.

#2. Don't know about your uses, but you are only one in potentially millions of users. Given that, I DID buy it with the purpose of being able to use it at the 100mm setting. I do want it sharp there, or at the very least (considering its the most expensive P&S cam out there) uniformly softer at that end. That is reasonable, and here is why:

#3 Compared to what? The Panny LX5, and a multitude of other, much less costly P&S cameras. The lens of the RX, when set on the widest aperture, is showing a defect that other cameras don't have.

#4. The LX3, 5 and 7 have a Leica lens that is sharp corner to corner. So, I think it's reasonable to say that in a camera with less going on, and a considerably higher price tag, that has a CZ branded lens, its not only realistic, but necessary to maintain their credibility in this market segment.

I shoot it at around 35 - 50 most of the time, but have frequently found myself using it at portrait lengths of 80-100.

You may not mind, but I do.



Aug 31, 2012 at 03:35 PM
Bobu
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p.28 #2 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Here is another example of the behavior of the lens of my RX100:

Image shot at 37,1mm (ca. 90-100mm on FF) with f/5.6 (slightly stopped down):
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8182/7902419614_74aa9d2fba_o.jpg

100% crop upper left corner (with quite good sharpness for a zoom lens):
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8316/7902420464_d51c17d1b1_o.jpg

100% crop of upper right corner (significantly less sharp):
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8034/7902419992_ea9de424b8_o.jpg

I got the confirmation today from Sony that I can return the camera, which is a good customer service, since I was 4 days too late for the 30 days return period.

Now I'm trying to decide whether I should try another RX100 or better switch to the DP1M.

Boris




Aug 31, 2012 at 04:12 PM
millsart
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p.28 #3 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Aren't some of the Leica branded VLux and Dlux Panasonic's in fact more expensive than the RX100 ?? I thought the Dlux5 was something like $800 even though its a LX5 with a red dot....

Should the RX100 really be considered in the p&s category even ? Does it have more in common with something like a Nikon System 1 camera or a Canon G1X ?


Out of curiosity, if you do shoot at 100mm quite often, why did you go with the RX100 given its range ends at 100mm and its also its slowest at that focal length.

Why not something like a m4/3 camera with a 45mm f1.8 or maybe the upcoming 35-100 f2.8 Panasonic zoom

35mm equiv is my sweet spot really, so I like to sometimes have something a little wider or a little longer, 28-50mm would be perfect for me, and as such the RX100 works great for what I need

If you want to do a lot of portrait work though, seems like the RX100 is a poor choice on account of you've got no additional reach over your sweet spot, on top of its being rather slow.

As I said before, if someone wants a pocket sized wide to normal camera the RX100 is my hands down recommendation.

If however, they want a portrait camera, or a versatile zoom range, or a serious landscape camera, etc the RX100 is a pretty poor choice.

Get a NEX5n with a 50mm 1.8 OSS if you want AF or use any number of legacy lenses and you'll have great edge to edge sharpness, great DR, lower noise etc.

Same goes with m4/3 and a lens like the 45mm 1.8. It simply blows away the RX100 on the long end.

Wide end though, RX100 holds its own againt the likes of the 14mm f2.5 or any kit zoom etc.


Sounds like you just got the wrong camera for the type of stuff you wan to shoot and probably would be better off returning it rather than wasting a lot of time/money messing aroudn with trying to find a needle in the haystack copy.



Guess maybe a lot of people have fallen for a bit of the hype and created unrealistic expectations for a camera like the RX100

When people say its an amazing camera, thats only in the context of its size.

When people say it can replace their other camera such as a NEX or m4/3, its only in the context of using the kit zoom. Its NOT meaning it can match up with a EM-5 with a bunch of great primes that can cost more than the RX100 total.


End of the day, the RX100 basically serves the roll of a point and shoot. Its a bit better than most p&s on the market so far, but it still is what is it is

If, being a typical gear obsessed member of the alt forum and regularly spending thousands of dollars on high end glass, pixel peeping rendering styles etc who has never been happy with any p&s to date, then your still not going to be happy with the RX100.

Its no different than if you were shooting the likes of a Zeiss 35 Biogon M or a Leica 35 Lux and you went a picked up a VC35mm f2.5.

Sure the VC is nice and compact and handles great on a M camera, and sure it only cost about $300 bucks instead of $1000 or $4000, but it sure doesn't work as well.

Hopefully no one would expect a low end Voigtlander to either, just as no one should expect a fixed zoom compact styled camera to really match anything more than a kit zoom.


I just don't really understand some folks and what it takes to make them happy.

You've got what is essentially a dream compact and its still not good enough.

I guess until we get that 18-1000mm f1.8 compact that fits in your pocket but that has a Sony A900 sized OVF, and D4 auto focus and D3s high ISO performance with Leica build quality and a $299 price tag we are just always going to find something to complain about

Heck, even if we did get that camera I'm sure we'd find something about it that just doens't quite meet our needs lol


DavidWEGS wrote:
Ok, I hear you but…

#1. Its a defect in the lens, or lens design. A defect. Not simply a soft corner at the long end of the zoom, but a clear defect.

#2. Don't know about your uses, but you are only one in potentially millions of users. Given that, I DID buy it with the purpose of being able to use it at the 100mm setting. I do want it sharp there, or at the very least (considering its the most expensive P&S cam out there) uniformly softer at that end. That is reasonable, and here is why:

#3 Compared to
...Show more



Aug 31, 2012 at 04:19 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.28 #4 · Sony Zeiss RX100


DavidWEGS wrote:
I shoot it at around 35 - 50 most of the time, but have frequently found myself using it at portrait lengths of 80-100.

You may not mind, but I do.


But how often do you put your subject at the upper right corner edge for a portrait?



Aug 31, 2012 at 04:44 PM
Yakim Peled
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p.28 #5 · Sony Zeiss RX100


najibs wrote:
The RX100 is a fantastic camera, that I'd recommend to anyone. THat being said...I just sold mine.

The reason being is quite simple. To me, the RX100 is a camera for when I don't want to take a camera with me. In other words, when I want to lug something around in a pocket and make sure that I can get a good quality photo when I don't have my serious gear.

The problem is, I find the user experience cumbersome. In other words, it's a camera that doesn't inspire me to take pictures, and a lot of it has to do
...Show more

We seem to think the same.

Happy shooting,
Yakim.



Aug 31, 2012 at 05:33 PM
DavidWEGS
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p.28 #6 · Sony Zeiss RX100


FlyPenFly wrote:
But how often do you put your subject at the upper right corner edge for a portrait?


Look at my avatar

Seriously, not often. But shooting landscape and "full" framed portraits, it does make it look funny.



Aug 31, 2012 at 05:44 PM
DavidWEGS
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p.28 #7 · Sony Zeiss RX100


You know what? You have a point and I am picking nits really. I may sound a little disgruntled, but really, I don't feel to bad about it.

I love the camera and will not be getting rid of it, even if they cannot fix that corner.

I purchased it to be the best camera in the world, which in this case, would be the camera that I have with me. It's for that reason that I selected the RX100 and returned the LX7. I will take this with me to places I just hated to take a DSLR or anything that did not fit easily in my sky rocket. I do want a camera that I can sell work from, that fits in my pocket. I also want to have it perform as well as it can.

Am I asking a lot? Yes.

If you find a camera that has what your specs below call for, I would gladly pay 10k or even 20k, if it did all that stuff well enough. :-).


millsart wrote:
I guess until we get that 18-1000mm f1.8 compact that fits in your pocket but that has a Sony A900 sized OVF, and D4 auto focus and D3s high ISO performance with Leica build quality and a $299 price tag we are just always going to find something to complain about

Heck, even if we did get that camera I'm sure we'd find something about it that just doens't quite meet our needs lol



Aug 31, 2012 at 05:55 PM
Jeff Kott
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p.28 #8 · Sony Zeiss RX100


millsart wrote:


I guess until we get that 18-1000mm f1.8 compact that fits in your pocket but that has a Sony A900 sized OVF, and D4 auto focus and D3s high ISO performance with Leica build quality and a $299 price tag we are just always going to find something to complain about



Not good for my needs, it has to be at least 16mm at the wide end.





Aug 31, 2012 at 05:57 PM
Jochenb
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p.28 #9 · Sony Zeiss RX100


I can't agree with some things you say Millsart. You actually sound a bit fanboy-ish to me.

millsart wrote:
Guess maybe a lot of people have fallen for a bit of the hype and created unrealistic expectations for a camera like the RX100


Fallen for the hype? Not me. I even had the sigma DP2 and Leica X1 in the recent past and liked them, eventhough they get tons of critisism. They all have their quirks, but why should someone accept a decentered lens at any pricepoint? That's just a basic expectation. Quality control.


I just don't really understand some folks and what it takes to make them happy.

You've got what is essentially a dream compact and its still not good enough.


Are you serious? Again, why should someone accept bad quality control at any price point? You can always get a bad copy of anything but some people tried multiple cameras, without better luck.
I agree that it's the dream compact, IF it doesn't have a defect.
Because that's what it is, a defect. Not just a quirk people have to accept and stop whining about.

4 corners soft... mediocre lens. Easy to accept. Only 1 corner soft... defect. Harder to accept because you pay for a fully functioning product. Simple as that.

No offence, just my 2 cents.

Bobu wrote:
I got the confirmation today from Sony that I can return the camera, which is a good customer service, since I was 4 days too late for the 30 days return period.

Now I'm trying to decide whether I should try another RX100 or better switch to the DP1M.

Boris


That's nice to hear Boris!
I'm curious what you'll decide. I've had the DP2 myself and it's a totally different animal. Compared to the RX100 the sigmas feel ancient. Very slow and only meant for low ISO shots. You also have to process the photos with Sigma's own Pro Photo software to get good colors. That's also a pain in the *ss.
However at base ISO they have amazing IQ.





Aug 31, 2012 at 06:38 PM
Pondria
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p.28 #10 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Went out to test with the widest open aperture. Mine doesn't seem to have de-centering issue. I guess I got lucky this time.



Aug 31, 2012 at 07:04 PM
ultrapix
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p.28 #11 · Sony Zeiss RX100


The short honeymoon of RX100


Sep 01, 2012 at 01:08 AM
ultrapix
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p.28 #12 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Pondria wrote:
Went out to test with the widest open aperture. Mine doesn't seem to have de-centering issue. I guess I got lucky this time.


+1

Apart close up (Dpreview itself stated that it's the worst situation for this camera), mine works flawlessy. The very slight corner blurring @ long end wide open is symmetrical and totally acceptable. It's still the camera I always dreamed to have in my pocket.



Sep 01, 2012 at 01:14 AM
ultrapix
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p.28 #13 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Here is a shot at long end, f:5,6.
I hope there is no need for crop to realize that there is not decentering at all. Perhaps... upper left is a tad worse, but such little difference, if ever, looks acceptable to me.
Wide end is even better.

http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae202/porfyrius/DSC00666-2.jpg



Sep 01, 2012 at 04:09 AM
deadwolfbones
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p.28 #14 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Just a little low-light snap:



Stay thirsty, my friends...



Sep 01, 2012 at 01:30 PM
EOS20
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p.28 #15 · Sony Zeiss RX100


A More Extreme DIY RX100 Filter Solution.....

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1009&thread=42387165




Sep 01, 2012 at 03:07 PM
beneix
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p.28 #16 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Bobu wrote:
Now I'm trying to decide whether I should try another RX100 or better switch to the DP1M.

The RX100 seems like a fantastic little camera. If you have the patience to potentially face returning two, three or even five units until you get one that's OK -- go for it. I went through this exact situation when the Fuji F70EXR was new -- I got a decentered one (incidentally with a soft top right corner!), sent it back and got one just like it...and then didn't have the perseverance to send that one back. I have regretted it many times since.

What you don't want to do is to get another RX100 that's inferior and keep it!

P.S. Nice shots from Croatia -- prekrasno!



Sep 01, 2012 at 04:01 PM
Pondria
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p.28 #17 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Just for the sake of it, I did the MTF comparison between Rx 100 and Canon 1Ds2 with 24-105L lens. The MTF was measured at the center of the image. I used Imatest to get the MTF50 numbers. The unit is Line Width per Picture height. Basically this metric gives us the direct measure of how many lines can be resolved with the sensor+Lens combo.
As you see, although RX 100 has more pixels (20M vs. 16M), the L lens with Larger sensor captures more details. This is kind of expected, though.
http://www.sesee.com/Photo/Exports/RX100-1Ds2-Comp.jpg




Sep 01, 2012 at 05:24 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.28 #18 · Sony Zeiss RX100


Very interesting, how does the rx100 do at wider apertures?


Sep 01, 2012 at 05:29 PM
Pondria
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p.28 #19 · Sony Zeiss RX100


FlyPenFly wrote:
Very interesting, how does the rx100 do at wider apertures?

Below is from a different test session. At 28 mm, ISO=125. Multiple points show the shot-to-shot focus variation. It seems that the performance peaks @f4.
http://www.sesee.com/Photo/Exports/RX100-28.jpg



Sep 01, 2012 at 05:53 PM
FlyPenFly
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p.28 #20 · Sony Zeiss RX100


So it does much better at wider FLs then there is a gradual decline.


Sep 01, 2012 at 06:05 PM
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