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Archive 2012 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

chez
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p.4 #1 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

jonbrach wrote:
I think we have reached the point where improvements in terms of AF and high ISO performance etc outweigh more MP...the image quality between canon and nikon cameras at this point is hard to distinguish...what differentiates is the lens lineup and the issues like AF and ISO performance etc that I mentioned......I had the 5dc and the 5d2 and I think the 5d3 is a giant step forward and a far better camera....

As far as AF and high ISO, what is wrong with the D800? I thought both of those attributes are just great with the D800. To boot, it does it with a high MP. Don't understand your post.

May 23, 2012 at 08:15 PM

RobDickinson
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p.4 #2 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

D800 has AF issues, at least some of them do.

High ISO its good, not quite as good as the 5d3 or D3s/D4 or (I assume 1Dx) but still very good and better than the D700.

If I was starting from a blank chequebook it would be a hard choice between the two.

D800 clearly has a better sensor for landscape stuff but the lens choice isnt as good and lvie view is poor (as per Freds article etc).

5D3 has better AF and faster frame rate which is good but not so applicable to me, but still handy for some stuff, I'm finding the 5d2 to be too slow in some situations where the 7D wasnt.

May 23, 2012 at 08:28 PM

jamesf99
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p.4 #3 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

Pixel Perfect wrote:
Interesting, because while I also agree Nikon (well Sony) have the sensor tech to beat now, as far as a complete system Canon still dominates with a much better array of glass with few exceptions. Also I'd say the 5D III AF is superior, it shoots faster, has a much better LV. The 5D III is the better all rounder IMO, the D800 the better specialist tool. Each have a few features that the other should, each has weaknesses, both are terrific.

But it's glass that would mainly stop me ever going wholly over to Nikon.

Agreed. I have tens of thousands invested in Canon glass, most of which Nikon can't match.... I'm seriously thinking of adding Nikon one day though; the D800 really is that good IMO (I'm not saying it's perfect, it's just very, very, very good).

garyvot wrote:
Yes, this sensor technology is very impressive, and I'm not trying to rationalize anything away. But really, how many captures do we do where we have to push the shadows 4-5 stops, as in that example? (Which is vs. the 5D Mark II, BTW, not the 5D3.)

The DR of the D800 has astounded me. Besides studio shooting where it would have helped me in the past (not doing it right now), it would make a huge difference to me in a LOT of my landscape shooting. Just think, as others have said, it can eliminate blending multiple shots (which can lead to horrendously difficult pp efforts), eliminate ND grads (which I almost always carry), saves time and effort for wedding shooters (brides in white, grooms in black, all in a dark church), event shooters, and the resolution opens new doors to flexibility. Every time I look at Nikon's DR, two words come to mind - no contest....

The Canon 5d3 would have been phenomenal 3-4 years ago; today though, it's got much better features with just an average sensor IMO, one that doesn't move more than 1/8" past the 5d2 for all practical purposes. Sony has kicked everyone's tail, and pretty hard....

May 23, 2012 at 08:37 PM

thedigitalbean
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p.4 #4 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

jamesf99 wrote:
The DR of the D800 has astounded me. Besides studio shooting where it would have helped me in the past (not doing it right now), it would make a huge difference to me in a LOT of my landscape shooting. Just think, as others have said, it can eliminate blending multiple shots (which can lead to horrendously difficult pp efforts), eliminate ND grads (which I almost always carry), saves time and effort for wedding shooters (brides in white, grooms in black, all in a dark church), event shooters, and the resolution opens new doors to flexibility. Every time I look...Show more →

Jim, the dynamic range of the D800 is astounding and it is indeed a marvel of sensor technology, however its still not a replacement for exposure blending or the use of grads for landscape photography. This isn't pontification on my part but based on actual use. When you push the shadows really hard what I find ends up happening is that you lose a lot of tonal separation which in the end for me makes for unpleasing images. If you think about it, this shouldn't be surprising. The sensor more or less linearly captures about 14 bits of data. Since you've underexposed to preserve your highlights all your information is packed into just a few of the lower bits. When you start pushing those shadows hard its the data in those bits that ends up being pushed to generate the new midtones and interpolation now matter how good can't make up tonal detail thats not there. Now when these cameras start capturing 16, 18 and 20 bit this may change but until then even with a D800 I would still use filters and multiple captures to get good tonal detail throughout the range.

May 23, 2012 at 08:47 PM

kewlcanon
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p.4 #5 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

Thanks for your explanation. Make sense to me.

thedigitalbean wrote:
Jim, the dynamic range of the D800 is astounding and it is indeed a marvel of sensor technology, however its still not a replacement for exposure blending or the use of grads for landscape photography. This isn't pontification on my part but based on actual use. When you push the shadows really hard what I find ends up happening is that you lose a lot of tonal separation which in the end for me makes for unpleasing images. If you think about it, this shouldn't be surprising. The sensor more or less linearly captures about 14 bits of data. Since...Show more →

May 23, 2012 at 08:53 PM

chez
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p.4 #6 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

jamesf99 wrote:
Sony has kicked everyone's tail, and pretty hard....

Yeh it has. And just a year or two ago there were a lot of people on this forum mocking Sony. It's great to see the likes of Sony, Samsung etc.. pushing the limits and comfort zone of our traditional camera manufactures. Consumers win in the long run. I am keeping a close eye on the mirror less advances as the quality of the photos coming from the latest cameras is getting very good.

May 23, 2012 at 08:57 PM

garyvot
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p.4 #7 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

James, obviously, your perspective is informed by the type of work you do. I am not a landscape shooter, but a photojournalist and event photographer. The places where the D800 has the edge over the 5D3 don't matter as much to me (though I can admire them), whereas the areas where the 5D3 is superior are pretty important.

I guess none of us should assume that our own needs and wants defining the requirements for all photographers.

I try not to preach (much), but for folks rendering dismissive judgements about 5D3 image quality based solely on DXO Labs testing: that's sounding pretty trollish. Do your own real-world shooting, then share it with us. Your opinions will be a lot more interesting and valuable.

May 23, 2012 at 09:00 PM

mco_970
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p.4 #8 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

thedigitalbean wrote:
Jim, the dynamic range of the D800 is astounding and it is indeed a marvel of sensor technology, however its still not a replacement for exposure blending or the use of grads for landscape photography. This isn't pontification on my part but based on actual use. When you push the shadows really hard what I find ends up happening is that you lose a lot of tonal separation which in the end for me makes for unpleasing images. If you think about it, this shouldn't be surprising. The sensor more or less linearly captures about 14 bits of data. Since...Show more →

A second thanks, Bean. I have noticed the same thing with my NEX. You can push the shadows really hard, and while the results are highly usable, they are not necessarily as pleasing as a photo that does not require so much pushing. It's nice to have an explanation for the underpinnings.

May 23, 2012 at 09:02 PM

Mike Pearson
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p.4 #9 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

Tom K. wrote:
Dpreview is thorough.

Next I look forward to Michael Reichmann's review of the 5D Mark lll over at "The Luminous Landscape". He heaped dramatic praise on the D800. It should be very interesting to see what Reichmann has to say about the latest Nikon vs Canon battle.

There was a thread on the Luminous Landscape forum titled "Michael, have I missed your 5D3 review. In it Michael answered:

"Haven't received one yet. Also, not high on my priority list because it doesn't really move the state of the art forward that much, and given my limited time and resources that's where I'm focused right now, those products that do.

Michael"

And later said:

"I didn't say that it isn't a worthwhile improvement over the 5DMKII, or that it isn't a worthwhile camera. Only that it covers no new ground and so takes a back seat to those products that do. It also has the misfortune of having come out during the same month as the D800. Who wants to read (or write) a review of the latest Camry when there's a new Jag available for a test drive?

Put another way, the prettiest girl at the dance always gets the most attention. Doesn't mean that's the one that the guys go home with though, or marry.

Do you want to read Consumer's Report or Car and Driver?

And that's enough of those analogies.

Michael"

So, I don't think you are going to see a review from him.

May 23, 2012 at 09:05 PM

miloz
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p.4 #10 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

The reviews seem kind of pointless and silly - does anyone not know what they're getting from a 5D3 or D800? Is Canon suddenly going to release a disastrous camera that doesn't out-resolve a 20D?

May 23, 2012 at 09:07 PM

Pixel Perfect
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p.4 #11 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

thedigitalbean wrote:
Jim, the dynamic range of the D800 is astounding and it is indeed a marvel of sensor technology, however its still not a replacement for exposure blending or the use of grads for landscape photography. This isn't pontification on my part but based on actual use. When you push the shadows really hard what I find ends up happening is that you lose a lot of tonal separation which in the end for me makes for unpleasing images. If you think about it, this shouldn't be surprising. The sensor more or less linearly captures about 14 bits of data. Since...Show more →

While it may not stop the need for exposure blending, it may greatly reduce the need to do HDR. Exposure blending and 5+ stops of shadow DR would cover most cases. I would think. Of course I'd like to do side-by-side comparisons.

May 23, 2012 at 09:25 PM

joeisayo
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p.4 #12 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

Mike Pearson wrote:
There was a thread on the Luminous Landscape forum titled "Michael, have I missed your 5D3 review. In it Michael answered:

"Haven't received one yet. Also, not high on my priority list because it doesn't really move the state of the art forward that much, and given my limited time and resources that's where I'm focused right now, those products that do.

Michael"

And later said:

"I didn't say that it isn't a worthwhile improvement over the 5DMKII, or that it isn't a worthwhile camera. Only that it covers no new ground and so takes a back seat to those products that do....Show more →

How sad. The guy who shoots snap shots and adds a lovely shade of orange around the borders won't be doing a review of the 5D3. How sad.

May 23, 2012 at 09:34 PM

Sneakyracer
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p.4 #13 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

JulesBeland wrote:
DXO 7 does a considerable better job with the shadows then does LR4. I replicated the DPR "Image Quality Test" in DXO and the result (taking the resolution advantage of the D800 into account) is quite close to what the Nikon achieves. It is that big of a difference.

Thanks, il give it a shot. I know sometimes we take the LR and ACR conversions as the standard to which all others are judged and therefore asume it to be the best or close to the best conversion possible. Maybe it isnt in regards to dynamic range.

May 23, 2012 at 10:33 PM

chez
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p.4 #14 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

joeisayo wrote:
How sad. The guy who shoots snap shots and adds a lovely shade of orange around the borders won't be doing a review of the 5D3. How sad.

Personally, I find Michaels reviews to be very thorough and his opinions are formed from actually using the equipment out in the field rather than putting it on some test bench. His photos ate far from just snapshots.

May 23, 2012 at 11:29 PM

Glenn NK
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p.4 #15 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

Bruce Sawle wrote:
Both are great cameras. The last thing DP review wanted to do was to start a flame war over there.

Way too late - the place is already on fire.

Of course it always has been.

Glenn

May 23, 2012 at 11:41 PM

CW100
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p.4 #16 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

AGeoJO wrote:
You know what? The 7D beats the crap out of both at..... 84% .

still not sure what the percentage means

May 24, 2012 at 04:45 AM

jamesf99
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p.4 #17 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

garyvot wrote:
James, obviously, your perspective is informed by the type of work you do. I am not a landscape shooter, but a photojournalist and event photographer. The places where the D800 has the edge over the 5D3 don't matter as much to me (though I can admire them), whereas the areas where the 5D3 is superior are pretty important.

I guess none of us should assume that our own needs and wants defining the requirements for all photographers.

I try not to preach (much), but for folks rendering dismissive judgements about 5D3 image quality based solely on DXO Labs testing: that's...Show more →

I hope you understand that I'm not basing anything on DXO. That's would be zero, nada, nothing. I couldn't care less if DXO said the sensor rated 1 million on their scale; it just makes no difference to me. for that matter, nor does DPR's awarding an 82 to both cameras and giving them both "Gold awards', whatever that means. Again, these things make no difference to me.

Having not used one, my assessment of the D800 comes from everything I've read about the camera, and everything I've seen in head-to-head match ups. Can the 5d3 take great images in average to low contrast situations? I'd bet it can (don't own one). Can the D800 take better images in more widely varying DR conditions? From everything I've seen, the answer is an unequivocal yes.

May 24, 2012 at 06:14 AM

jamesf99
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p.4 #18 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

thedigitalbean wrote:
Jim, the dynamic range of the D800 is astounding and it is indeed a marvel of sensor technology, however its still not a replacement for exposure blending or the use of grads for landscape photography. This isn't pontification on my part but based on actual use. When you push the shadows really hard what I find ends up happening is that you lose a lot of tonal separation which in the end for me makes for unpleasing images. If you think about it, this shouldn't be surprising. The sensor more or less linearly captures about 14 bits of data. Since...Show more →

You have an edge over me. you've actually used one.

I don't expect the shadows to contain a full amount of data; nature of the beast and all. Nor would I think I could get around a 5-stop+ difference by pushing shadows. I often use ND grads of 2 and 3 stop differences to bring things into line, but I find it a pain. I've never stacked a 2 and 3 to get 5, but I could. To me, stacking like that is just too much of a compromise and you're in a forced blending situation.

We each have our preferences, but I can't stand large areas of white, or blown highlights. To me, nothing is more depressing than a blown sky (unless intentional) and after shooting Canon digital for 13 years now, it's something I've come to expect if you're not very careful. The D800 obviously doesn't mean you can throw caution and common sense to the wind, but it does (from what I've seen/read) give you an added edge of at least a couple of stops, and that can make all the difference. That's all I'm asking for right now.

Edited on May 24, 2012 at 06:32 AM · View previous versions

May 24, 2012 at 06:29 AM

jj_glos
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p.4 #19 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

thedigitalbean wrote:
Jim, the dynamic range of the D800 is astounding and it is indeed a marvel of sensor technology, however its still not a replacement for exposure blending or the use of grads for landscape photography. This isn't pontification on my part but based on actual use. When you push the shadows really hard what I find ends up happening is that you lose a lot of tonal separation which in the end for me makes for unpleasing images. If you think about it, this shouldn't be surprising. The sensor more or less linearly captures about 14 bits of data. Since...Show more →

It's interesting to read this. I had thought that shadows pushed as much as 4-5 stops couldn't have the same colour fidelity as that provided by multiple exposures. As I don't shoot landscapes a great deal (or own a D800), I don't really have any experience to base my assumption on.

May 24, 2012 at 06:29 AM

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p.4 #20 · DPR 5D3 Review is out

i am curious. All this talk about the D800 sensor being so much better than the 5d3 at low iso. How does or will the 1DX, Canon's flagship, compare with the D800 wrt the sensor and dynamic range?

Full disclosure: I received my 5d3 two days ago. For what I need, I think the camera is almost perfect. I have never complained about the DR on my 5dc. I did miss a higher frame rate and better AF on my 5dc. The one argument that I get tired of hearing is that the D800 is $500 less. It is not if you care about frame rate.

May 24, 2012 at 06:40 AM

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