Ok, a repeating AF question. On page 14 of DPR's review they say that only the center 21 points are cross type at f5.6. In the Canon UK white papers that describe in detail both the 5D3 and 1DX's AF system, their diagram shows only the center 21 but the text says "and the left and right banks of 20 AF points each will act as cross-type sensors at f/4 and f/5.6."
So which is it? Will my 100-400 have cross type AF sensors using the left and right banks of 20? Will the 5DIII's AF system be as good with the 100-400 as the 7D?
Jeff,
. Ok, a repeating AF question. On page 14 of DPR's review they say that only the center 21 points are cross type at f5.6.
Refer to page 82 and 83 of the 5D3 manual. The 100-400 lens falls into the "Group E" lens group and in summary "Autofocusing with 61 points is possible. All of the AF area selection modes are selectable." With the 21 center points as cross type, and with the left and right bank of points as "AF points sensitive to horizontal lines." Note I don't own the 100-400.
Jeff Nolten wrote:
Ok, a repeating AF question. On page 14 of DPR's review they say that only the center 21 points are cross type at f5.6. In the Canon UK white papers that describe in detail both the 5D3 and 1DX's AF system, their diagram shows only the center 21 but the text says "and the left and right banks of 20 AF points each will act as cross-type sensors at f/4 and f/5.6."
So which is it? Will my 100-400 have cross type AF sensors using the left and right banks of 20? Will the 5DIII's AF system be as good with the 100-400 as the 7D?...Show more →
It depends lens by lens.
100-400 is a Class E lens which means it gets 21 center points cross type and 40 outer points horizontal only
the best are Class A lenses and they get a stripe of 5 central points which are double cross double precision and then 16 regular cross points in the center surrounding those and then a bank of 10 regular cross points on each side of those and then a vertical stripe of 5 non-cross between those sets of 10 and central sets that are horizontal only and then and outer vertical stripe of 5 non-cross horiz only at each far edge so you'd get 5 double cross double precision and 36 regular precision single cross points and 20 non-cross horizontal only
the worst are Class H lenses which only have a single functioning AF point(!) a single precision single cross type in the very center (only the two old 35-105 lenses are Class H)
One thing to keep in mind, some asked about Macro 180 vs Macro 100L well 180L is Class G with 15 central cross points and 22 outermost points disabled while the 100L is Class C with all 21 central cross points and 20 outer cross points and no disabled points. (The 100 non L USM is Class E which looses all outer cross type points, also something to keep in mind comparing to the 100L macro; oddly the even older 100 non L non USM macro is class C like the L version though but the AF is so slow on that one)
Sadly only class A and B (and the freak one lens 28 2.8 class D have any dbl cross points)
Jeff Nolten wrote:
Ok, a repeating AF question. On page 14 of DPR's review they say that only the center 21 points are cross type at f5.6. In the Canon UK white papers that describe in detail both the 5D3 and 1DX's AF system, their diagram shows only the center 21 but the text says "and the left and right banks of 20 AF points each will act as cross-type sensors at f/4 and f/5.6."
So which is it? Will my 100-400 have cross type AF sensors using the left and right banks of 20? Will the 5DIII's AF system be as good with the 100-400 as the 7D?...Show more →
And more generally as for whether only central points are cross at f/5.6 well that is true. The outer banks of 20 are only cross-type at f/4 or better (and in a few cases not even then: 28.8 loses the outermost 10 and apparently all the variable aperture lenses lose all outer cross points even at the f/4 portion of their range and the 100 2.8 USM macro loses all outer cross points for some odd reason as does the 180 macro (it even disables some entirely and has some central cross type entirely disabled as well))
Thank you for your very detailed answer to my question re IQ. Its going to take me a while to digest what you said but that is exactly the kind of summary I was hoping to find somewhere!
DmitriM wrote:
I am beyond serious. I have a list of issues that is over 20 now and growing on weekly basis. Most people don't use the camera enough(or in wider range conditions) to see them or notice them.
You've been "testing" your camera for a day....I've actually been shooting it since the day it came out and put in over 10,000 frames on both, in every situation imaginable.
A list of '20 issues and growing' and that's your response? I guess that says enough for me.
I've been shooting with mine for weeks now and haven't run into anything beyond a weird glitch that a firmware update fixed. The AF points are fine for me...I had no problems with the 7Ds I owned either (very similar looking AF points). I can understand some people aren't thrilled with them...hopefully Canon can address that and make those folks happy.
Thanks for the AF explanations and the reference to the 5D3 user manual - I hadn't thought to see if it was available. The lens vs AF capability breakdown is very interesting since it allows me to see how my lens collection will benefit. Compared to my 5D2 the answer is, its a mixed bag. Who would guess my lowly 35f2 was a class A lens. My 3 f4 zooms would gain outer cross type points, but my 100L would lose its center high precision. My 100-400 wouldn't gain anything and lose compared to the 7D, which it usually lives on.
I'd been considering trading both 5D2 and 7D for 5D3. I think this new camera is a wedding, fashion, portrait photographer's dream come true. For a travel, landscape, wildlife photographer, not so much, at least for a current 5D2 owner. And for my budget this is a good thing.
skibum5 wrote:
The 100 non L USM is Class E which looses all outer cross type points, also something to keep in mind comparing to the 100L macro;
If people actually want the 100mm macro to shoot... gee, I don't know, macro... AF is not a factor. If you want to use the lens for portrait and the occasional close up, then yeah, get the L for the AF.
RobDickinson wrote:
Its bizzare how they have switched round this time
D700 vs 5d2 , high performance, low resolution vs high resolution low performance.
D800 vs 5d3, low performance vs high, high res vs low.
So you're calling <1 FPS difference (at a higher MP count) "low performance"?
Actually, that's not a realistic comparison IMO. You can shoot the Nikon at 25MP (1.2 crop I think) and get 5+ FPS. The D800 offers Nikon's top of the line AF, 100% VF, yada, yada, yada, so where's the "low performance"?
5+ FPS seems pretty decent to me, and even if you're back at the 5d2's measly 4 FPS, you're getting 60% more MP (for those that want them) in the D800. yes, this is about the 5d3, but for everyone that has ever said the 5d2 "met their needs", what's not to like better about the D800?
The fact that selected AF point is larger and there is a focus confirmation beep makes this a non event. You'll need to try harder No camera is designed to your spec, so you have to adapt to it.
Bones74 wrote:
The fact that selected AF point is larger and there is a focus confirmation beep makes this a non event. You'll need to try harder No camera is designed to your spec, so you have to adapt to it.
No beep in servo mode, which is one issue at hand. Besides, beeping is not always appropriate, servo or not. The fact that this is a regression from pretty much all cameras that Canon has made since the 90s explains why people are upset.
stanj wrote:
No beep in servo mode, which is one issue at hand. Besides, beeping is not always appropriate, servo or not. The fact that this is a regression from pretty much all cameras that Canon has made since the 90s explains why people are upset.
I know there is no servo mode AF beep (in any EOS) I think it was Joshua who pointed out that the selected AF point is larger so I've learnt to use it like that. Obviously the illumination would be better, but its not a MAJOR problem for me, even with BIF. No camera is perfect and we have to adapt, but any niggles that Canon can resolve with future firmware I'm sure they will. Nitpicking (not aimed at you ) because the camera isn't exactly as someone wants it to be, is just petulant.
ChrisRD wrote:
Well...I like what I see coming out of mine...that's why I was surprised at the negative comments in the review.
The part I found even weirder, however, is that DPR's own studio comparison pics don't seem to support their conclusion.
I also found the studio-comparison tool favoured the 5DIII. The output appeared rich in contrast whereas the D800 looks a little washed out.
The most surprising thing for me is that if you look at the "pros" and "cons" list at the end of the review the 5DIII has only 2 pros regarding IQ, and a whopping 4 cons, specifically regarding image quality.
The D800 has 5 IQ pros, and 0 cons...
Going by that the "image quality" green rating bars should be vastly different, but they are almost identical for both cameras.
But at least DPR provide up with those studio-comparison tools and competent sample galleries for us to make our own minds up.
I think it was Joshua who pointed out that the selected AF point is larger so I've learnt to use it like that. Obviously the illumination would be better, but its not a MAJOR problem for me, even with BIF. No camera is perfect and we have to adapt, but any niggles that Canon can resolve with future firmware I'm sure they will. Nitpicking (not aimed at you