ckhagen wrote:
Now, let's be real here. The old "men are analytical and women are emotional" argument is total bunk. More accurate would be to say "some people are analytical and some people are emotional". If you think women are emotional and not analytical you've obviously never met me.
And if you think women are the only ones showing up to weddings with a rebel and a kit lens with no backup then you have now successfully proven that your mind is so small that nothing else you say is worth even reading. Stupid people show up to a wedding with a rebel and no back up and there's equally as many stupid men in this world. Stupidity has zero to do with gender. It crosses all skin colors, nationalities, sexual orientations, ages, and religions too. ...Show more →
I believe at the end of the day, professional wedding photography will be dominated by photographers who show the talent, savvy and resiliency to survive. Gender will ultimately have little to do with it.
Religion, politics and gender; all hot topics which should be either discussed with discretionary respect or avoided altogether.
No one likes to be stereotyped, but generalizations exist and they are real. Most things in life are a bell shaped curve, with a certain number of people being less than average and a certain number of people being more than average.
What I found in this thread is people discussing averages and generalizations... then someone coming in and totally flying off the handle for some odd reason.
Listen, no one is making a statement about any individual here, only about the "pool" in general. If you took anything you read here personally, you took it the wrong way. Odds are you are an outlier, you are not the "average".
I consider myself open minded and I haven't found anything offensive in this thread aside from the occasional snarky comment by someone trying to be funny.
deepbluejh wrote:
No one likes to be stereotyped, but generalizations exist and they are real. Most things in life are a bell shaped curve, with a certain number of people being less than average and a certain number of people being more than average.
What I found in this thread is people discussing averages and generalizations... then someone coming in and totally flying off the handle for some odd reason.
Listen, no one is making a statement about any individual here, only about the "pool" in general. If you took anything you read here personally, you took it the wrong way. Odds are you are an outlier, you are not the "average".
I consider myself open minded and I haven't found anything offensive in this thread aside from the occasional snarky comment by someone trying to be funny....Show more →
My point is most of you have no idea what the average woman thinks about, or is interested in, or why they got into photography, and are just sitting around on here making assumptions and generalizations, for absolutely no purpose. My pointing out that it is offensive, and it is demeaning to women isn't me flying off the handle.
Benchernif wrote:
And to be honest - please DO NOT TAKE THIS THE WRONG WAY - but wow I've seen so much crap work from female wedding photographers who actually use their gender to sell their work. It's such a sell-out.
Haven't we all seen it? The ones who flaunt their female-ness all over their website but produce absolute crap?!
Outliers become the norm under the right conditions. In the mid-twentieth century, a college educated woman who worked and was neither a secretary, nor a nurse, nor a teacher was an outlier. Today, females in medical school are the norm for all medical students.
The point of this thread, and nothing else was to point out how women have dramatically increased in the wedding photography discipline. That's all. And that is the truth. They have. End of story.
photolove84 wrote:
My point is most of you have no idea what the average woman thinks about, or is interested in, or why they got into photography, and are just sitting around on here making assumptions and generalizations, for absolutely no purpose. My pointing out that it is offensive, and it is demeaning to women isn't me flying off the handle.
And how exactly do you know this?
Believe it or not, many of us have actually worked with female photographers... and have had conversations with them. When you work with someone and have discussions with them, you often learn a lot about them. It's really not that far fetched.
I can't speak for anyone else, but my comments were based on my experience and my conversations with female photographers who I have worked with directly.
I don't think that gender matters much in making a living, but I do think it plays a role in how you do it...
Sure there are women that play up their femininity to book jobs. Masculinity can be used in the same way and I'll happily tell you that I use that to help us. To say that women photographers only book jobs because their work looks girly (but is technically weak) is extremely short sighted. The same thing would be true the other way. I could list countless male photographers who are technically excellent but just can't capture the hearts of their potential clients.
If you look at something like the WPPI instructors (which one would assume is the creme de la creme), I would guess that it's around a 50/50 split amongst male and female photographers. Women are different than men. Women have strengths and weaknesses. So do men. Getting angry that someone has success in spite of their perceived weaknesses is incredibly naive.
Also, I'll add that I don't think that being a male is a detriment at all in this profession. There are SO many stupid patterns of wedding marketing out there that just make me mad (venues using "scripty, girly" fonts, gazebos, ect...) Assuming that brides are the only people that matter is as silly as shooting in selective color. Grooms have just as much hiring power as them and I don't think I've ever seen a couple where the groom didn't have at least one thing that he took hold of and wanted to handle himself. Marketing to grooms can be an incredibly powerful thing. So to assume that only women can be successful by appealing to other women is a big mistake in my opinion.
photolove84 wrote:
My point is most of you have no idea what the average woman thinks about, or is interested in, or why they got into photography, and are just sitting around on here making assumptions and generalizations...
Isn't this an assumption and a generalization?
You have to actually BE a woman, not just just 'talk to them' or 'work with them' to have a full understanding of why parts of this thread can be perceived as quite offensive. I just wanted to make that point, but have no interest in arguing it.
Men likes to show off their Canons. While Women likes to carry extra Pentax(s).
OK stupid photography joke.
On a more serious contributing post, I came across a Photolife interview article once about a female photojournalist. She captured some awesome intimate shots of various cultures around the world. She admitted that being a female was a big part in allowing her to get "in" on certain situations where men would've had a more difficult time especially with the conservative cultures.
I didn't follow the entire thread. But in responding to the thread title, and based on browsing through some local CL ads (can't help it. I'm a CL addict) for wedding/portrat photographers, there seems to be alot more female photographers. Actually alot of them are Momtagraphers.
Many professional women photographers happen to be Moms, and many Pro male photographers are Dad's , but why are women assumed to be amateurs if they are parents? I shoot sports for the newspaper and Maxpreps and have had coaches and Ref's at other schools assume I am a 'soccer mom' and ask me to leave the field. I even had one ref ask me if I had borrowed my husbands camera! I live in a rural mountain area, so maybe this attitude is more prevalent here, but it's ridiculous. There was an amateur male photographer here with no credentials or permission to be shooting the games, but he was left alone because he had huge Canon glass. It took an entire football season before the coach finally asked who he was and why he was there (He was shooting for himself and uploading to smugmug) and he was finally told to leave..This guy also did not abide by any rules, was sitting on the bench with players, shooting in the mid zone etc. Anyway, just wish this double standard would go away, it is due time. All professionals want to be respected no matter the gender.
