eNoBlog wrote:
And now, after reading most of the comments, I'll add this and slink away: a lot of the comments seem to be disdaining the way women photogs connect with brides ("the bubble gum" blog comments, etc.). While superficiality abounds, I'm much the same can be said about a lot of what appears in male blogs and other promotional venues. Don't mistake this, however, for the ability to forge a personal, emotional connection with your clients. If there's one type of photography were personal, emotional connections rule it is wedding photography. The extent in which we tend to focus primarily on that content of a wedding day, instead resting on technical excellence or proficiency, will dictate whether our clients "get us" and we "get them."...Show more →
Nothing wrong with "connecting"......lots of wrong with inability to "produce".
Male photographers do not have any issues with female photographers. Male photographers have issues with female photographers who purchase consumer grade gear with the intention of starting a business. Few men would not become wedding photographers to earn extra money. I like many male tekkie photographers have an interest in using photography to use the right sides of our brains and have the resources to do geat work.
I started shooting weddings as a consequence of a female photographer friend who shot a wedding for a few extra bucks with a rebel, a kit lens, and popup flash. Guess what happens next, the camera malfunctioned and she missed the whole thing. This was after a warned her this was not a good idea. I also know a gay male florist who tried to package photography and had a similar experience.
I started shooting with a two Nikon 700's , Nikon 14-24 2.8, 24-70 2.8, 70-200 2.8 vr1, and 3 SB900's. I shot my forst two weddins for free until I was confident enough to charge for my work. I now have a D3s, D700, 85 and 35 1.4 G, 14-24, 24-70, 70-200 vrII, 105 2.8 vr and 60 macro, 200mm f2 vr1, and 5 sb900's. I also have liability and E&O insurance. I still loose money on photography. No doubt, however, the woman on the photo.net forum will be far more successful at photography than I ever will be.
This is one of the most infuriating threads I have read in a long time. First off, maybe, just maybe there aren't more women on FM because of how ridiculously sexist the comments here are! Or maybe it's because the ASSUMPTION is made that some of the women posters here, are men. I have been assumed to be male many times on this forum. Maybe, there are more women photographers now, because they are finally being more accepted, but as clearly shown by this thread, they still have a long way to go. There are women in the military now, there are women engineers now, there are women mechanics now. But I really think there aren't more, not because women aren't interested in working hard, or don't like things that are just so complicated or technical, but because times haven't completely changed, and there's still so much ignorance. You know how many jokes there were when Hilary Clinton was running for president that we couldn't have a woman president because she's going to get PMS and bomb everyone?!??!?! You know how many MEN irresponsibly pick up a camera and decide to get into photography before really knowing what on earth they are doing because they think it's an easy buck??!! JUST AS MANY AS THERE ARE WOMEN!!!! Speaking as a woman from a husband and wife photography team, I can tell you, I am the one who pushes the flash into many scenarios, and sometimes I lead a wedding day, and sometimes my husband does, and sometimes I lead the consults, and sometimes he does, and no one seems to care either way. Brides and grooms just want someone to take care of them. How about instead of coming up with another EXCUSE as to why your business is failing, you take a good hard look over your own business and ways you can improve on it, instead of coming onto a forum to bitch and complain about how everyone else is dragging you down.
Kittyk wrote:
you make it sound like art of available light photography is any easier (so easy even woman can understand) work then strobing. i know, there is customer for everyone but i must say that i came across much more blogs or website where flash is overused.
i use flash and artificial fog and have two diesel generators for shoots when needed, but in wedding photography, i want to keep the documentary, showing the day as it was, first and showcasing my flash skills on last place .
I know i can light the church better then those crappy halogen lights can, but that doesn't mean i have to....Show more →
Kitty - You misunderstand me. Good use of light is tough going, whether you do it with ambient or man-made light. I am talking about style, and how women (in general) may keep things more real, and how that may relate better with clients. It's not easier. Not at all. Just less concerned with pulling every trick out of the bag -- and so says someone who went the whole strobist route, only to now think he way over-spent on all those strobes when wonderful ambient light is so abundant.
photolove84 wrote:
This is one of the most infuriating threads I have read in a long time. First off, maybe, just maybe there aren't more women on FM because of how ridiculously sexist the comments here are! Or maybe it's because the ASSUMPTION is made that some of the women posters here, are men. I have been assumed to be male many times on this forum. Maybe, there are more women photographers now, because they are finally being more accepted, but as clearly shown by this thread, they still have a long way to go. There are women in the military now, there are women engineers now, there are women mechanics now. But I really think there aren't more, not because women aren't interested in working hard, or don't like things that are just so complicated or technical, but because times haven't completely changed, and there's still so much ignorance. You know how many jokes there were when Hilary Clinton was running for president that we couldn't have a woman president because she's going to get PMS and bomb everyone?!??!?! You know how many MEN irresponsibly pick up a camera and decide to get into photography before really knowing what on earth they are doing because they think it's an easy buck??!! JUST AS MANY AS THERE ARE WOMEN!!!! Speaking as a woman from a husband and wife photography team, I can tell you, I am the one who pushes the flash into many scenarios, and sometimes I lead a wedding day, and sometimes my husband does, and sometimes I lead the consults, and sometimes he does, and no one seems to care either way. Brides and grooms just want someone to take care of them. How about instead of coming up with another EXCUSE as to why your business is failing, you take a good hard look over your own business and ways you can improve on it, instead of coming onto a forum to bitch and complain about how everyone else is dragging you down. ...Show more →
Wow, so many assumptions with very little facts. No one is saying negative things about women in photography. The thread was about how the wedding profession is slowly being taken over by women. Reasons why are abundant. You sure are angry. There must be some underlying reason for that.
As for me personally, I have many women associates. 20 years ago, zero. The tide has turned. Men and woman's styles are distinctly different.
FACT is, SOME brides DO book based on gender. Not all, SOME. Just as SOME book based on experience and price regardless of gender.
Yes, I surely am angry. I am not angry at every comment or every point made, or the original question. Maybe if you reread every comment and thought about it from a different point of you, you'd see why I'm angry.
photolove84 wrote:
Yes, I surely am angry. I am not angry at every comment or every point made, or the original question. Maybe if you reread every comment and thought about it from a different point of you, you'd see why I'm angry.
Anger is counter productive to any type of positive result. To each their own. Maybe if YOU quoted the statements that "angered" you, maybe WE could understand YOUR anger.
marti.g3 wrote:
Anger is counter productive to any type of positive result. To each their own. Maybe if YOU quoted the statements that "angered" you, maybe WE could understand YOUR anger.
Anger can be counter productive, and it can also be necessary. I really don't have the time to go back and quote every comment that angered me, and I feel I paraphrased quite well with my annoyance at the assumption that women don't like things that are hard, complicated and technical. That women get into photography without knowledge to make a quick buck, and use their gender to sell themselves. As if men don't. There are people bickering on here about women being the problem, about all the different ways women are the problem, just like they come on here and bicker about uncle bob being their problem, and all the new comers being the problem, when half of them haven't been doing this for more than a year and they are new comers themselves, and their real problem is they are too busy complaining to buckle down and put in the work. And now I'm also annoyed at your condescending tone to me, telling me that I'm the one making assumptions when that's so ridiculously overdone throughout this thread, that I have so little facts, that I'm angry at some other underlying problem, and acting like I couldn't possibly have a point or a reason to be angry.
D. Diggler wrote:
But the right tool yields the best results. The "other way to do it" is second best.
The right tool according to your vision. Every person will see things differently, and will use the tools that help them take pictures according to how they see the world.
eNoBlog wrote:
Kitty - You misunderstand me. Good use of light is tough going, whether you do it with ambient or man-made light. I am talking about style, and how women (in general) may keep things more real, and how that may relate better with clients. It's not easier. Not at all. Just less concerned with pulling every trick out of the bag -- and so says someone who went the whole strobist route, only to now think he way over-spent on all those strobes when wonderful ambient light is so abundant.
ok i probably did.
for me, i always tell the couples that if they want drama, to book another shooting day. Short weddings have it even included. Then we can do photoshoot for a photoshoot and bring all the dogs out :-). On wedding day i just prefer that the photos are as close to reality as possible and make it nice.
Recently i worked with some videographer who lit the church with 6500k lights, it was so painful, that i told the wedding planer that i will walk away if they will not throw them out. Bride was looking "really awesome" with 2kW spotlight in the face too. That's how our flashes are sometimes seen by the other people.
photolove84 wrote:
This is one of the most infuriating threads I have read in a long time. First off, maybe, just maybe there aren't more women on FM because of how ridiculously sexist the comments here are! Or maybe it's because the ASSUMPTION is made that some of the women posters here, are men. I have been assumed to be male many times on this forum. Maybe, there are more women photographers now, because they are finally being more accepted, but as clearly shown by this thread, they still have a long way to go....
+1
However, some women haven't helped the cause either and I'm thinking way back to Queen Victoria. That woman has a lot to answer to methinks.
she don't need to know it, as long as some troll wont change her setting from green Auto to P or (god forbid) M mode.
But even then, she just need to find somebody else on the wedding who tells her how to change it back.
Well in case of my "pro on vacation" / unwanted second /shots duplicator, her photos came too dark. She had no cap on, but some "noob" changed her setting to EV -2.
photolove84 wrote:
Anger can be counter productive, and it can also be necessary. I really don't have the time to go back and quote every comment that angered me, and I feel I paraphrased quite well with my annoyance at the assumption that women don't like things that are hard, complicated and technical. That women get into photography without knowledge to make a quick buck, and use their gender to sell themselves. As if men don't. There are people bickering on here about women being the problem, about all the different ways women are the problem, just like they come on here and bicker about uncle bob being their problem, and all the new comers being the problem, when half of them haven't been doing this for more than a year and they are new comers themselves, and their real problem is they are too busy complaining to buckle down and put in the work. And now I'm also annoyed at your condescending tone to me, telling me that I'm the one making assumptions when that's so ridiculously overdone throughout this thread, that I have so little facts, that I'm angry at some other underlying problem, and acting like I couldn't possibly have a point or a reason to be angry....Show more →
Should I tell the story of the female photographer who was shooting a reception at the same venue as me, dropped her "Rebel", broke it then had the nerve to walk into my reception room and ask me to "loan" her a camera so she could do her "paid job"............naawww, I won't go there. That didn't end well as she "emotionally" huffed out of the room.
Well... clearly this isn't a discussion with you that's going to go anywhere. Go ahead and sit there smugly behind your computer desk, safely, where no one knows your name. I have work to do.
marti.g3 wrote:
Should I tell the story of the female photographer who was shooting a reception at the same venue as me, dropped her "Rebel", broke it then had the nerve to walk into my reception room and ask me to "loan" her a camera so she could do her "paid job"............naawww, I won't go there. That didn't end well as she "emotionally" huffed out of the room.
But that has nothing to do with her inherently being female. She could have just as easily been a man doing that.
Now, let's be real here. The old "men are analytical and women are emotional" argument is total bunk. More accurate would be to say "some people are analytical and some people are emotional". If you think women are emotional and not analytical you've obviously never met me.
And if you think women are the only ones showing up to weddings with a rebel and a kit lens with no backup then you have now successfully proven that your mind is so small that nothing else you say is worth even reading. Stupid people show up to a wedding with a rebel and no back up and there's equally as many stupid men in this world. Stupidity has zero to do with gender. It crosses all skin colors, nationalities, sexual orientations, ages, and religions too.
.