It seems that the cup is half full for a lot of people commenting. wow
Stevez32, that's intelligent and thoughtful thinking. Insurance is a great analogy.
People, it's like investing for retirement. You don't do it one way. You diversify. BB like EVERY company on earth will have errors here and there. This is why intelligently protecting you data is important.
I'm afraid Gleb's comment -- though I believe it was well-intentioned -- failed to clear up the main question I have about the technical issue. He said:
Only if you uninstall and reinstall on the same computer is there even the slightest risk
Does this mean that the data are, in fact, destroyed on his end? Or merely that Backblaze is unable to re-map the account to those data? If Alex installed on another computer rather than on his original computer, how would that have changed the risk posed to the data?
Do I infer correctly that it is the active UNinstallation of the software that triggers or risks triggering a data overwrite?
I'm sorry, Gleb, to drag this out here, but this is a critical technical question that your post just sort of glossed over. I can't tell, from your explanation, whether you, yourselves, have backup systems in place to guard against what evidently is a known risk. I'm happy to give you the benefit of the doubt and ask you to provide a more detailed technical explanation of the precise nature of the risk, since this is a google-friendly forum.
I'm not sure, but I think what Gleb is saying is that it's the act of UNinstalling the software and then starting over with a new install, COMBINED, that seems to put your entire backup at risk. Why that might be remains a mystery.
And it still requires some explanation of the factors involved and what Backblaze will do 1) for Alex, and 2) to avoid similarly putting others' data at risk.
Backblaze should NOT be your safety net. It should be the pillows on the floor, 50ft below that will prevent you from dying if the safety net and the backup safety net fail. You should expect broken bones.
Organize your data so that it logically follows the actual needs for backup and you'll be able to sleep a lot easier.
For instance I'm not as concerned about the data for clients whose images I have already processed and uploaded to Zenfolio as I would be about the data for a client I shot yesterday.
I divide my data in these zones:
1. OS/Applications <--- these can be reinstalled, I don't give a crap about them
2. Business data <--- this is critical, scanned contracts, graphics I create, promotions etc.
3. Data for clients whose images are unprocessed <--- this is critical
4. Data for clients whose contracts aren't fulfilled but whose images are processed <--- less critical than the above, images are at Zenfolio already.
5. Archive data, for clients with completed contracts.
I physically partition that data into 4 zones:
Zone A: 1
Zone B: 2,3
Zone C: 4
Zone D: 5
Zone A is only one HDD as are Zones B and C, Zone D is more than one HDD
Zone A is the only one that I ONLY backup on backblaze. I don't really give a crap about it.
Zone B is syncd to a passport drive I carry with me in my eurotrash bag, it's also syncd to a 3 disk backup setup that provides offsite/car/location backup for the data
Zone C and Zone D are backed up to a 2 disk backup setup that provides offiste/location backup
When client images go logically from 3 to 4, I physically move their folder to the appropriate zone drive, freeing up space for new fresh images.
If you operated in a similar way you would NOT have to be freaking out about a >month long backblaze backup.
I would simply enable backup only for my ZONE B HDD, once that's done I'd open up the other zones. If while the other zones are still not fully backed up I shot a new session I'd again disable backing up the other zones (data is retained for up to 30 days I believe) for the day... and once the new session is backblazed I'd re-enable the other zones.
Works well, give it a try.
But yeah build your safety nets over the floor pillows. Sync software, internal HDDs, Internal HDD -> ESATA adapter is what I use.
lisy78 wrote:
...
Backblaze should NOT be your safety net. It should be the pillows on the floor, 50ft below that will prevent you from dying if the safety net and the backup safety net fail. You should expect broken bones.
Organize your data so that it logically follows the actual needs for backup and you'll be able to sleep a lot easier.
For instance I'm not as concerned about the data for clients whose images I have already processed and uploaded to Zenfolio as I would be about the data for a client I shot yesterday.
...
This is a simple process to protect your clients and yourself. All other data is important, but not nearly as important as the way it's laid out here.
qwyjibo wrote:
Thanks for the breakdown Alessandro. One quick question, when you say "my eurotrash bag" do you mean man purse?
if you must call it that, I suppose you can. Thankfully as I was born in Italy I have the excuse to call it a eurotrash bag... or sometime I call it a camera bag (my ipod after all does take photos)... or a "messenger bag" but yeah nothing with "purse" in it.
As far as I'm concerned if it doesn't have lipstick and a tampon in it I can safely say it's NOT a purse.
The response from Backblaze was pretty poor given that it was essentially their fault and Alex bent over backwards to prevent what happened.
On the other hand, I think this demonstrates the "you get what you pay for", "no free lunch", and "if it's too good to be true . . ." adages.
The business models these companies use is similar to cell phones companies and health clubs. They depend on you not taking advantage of all they are offering. When you do take advantage, they just aren't going to be very sympathetic because you are screwing with their business/income model. You can call it "bait and switch" but you can also call it "buyer beware".
Here is a comparison that I think brings home the "too good to be true" aspect. The Jungle Disk cloud storage service offered by RackSpace has the option of either using RackSpace's storage or Amazon's S3 storage. Amazon is a little cheaper per GB but charges for data requests and transfers. Both are pretty close to what you could call "wholesale" cloud-storage rates, at least as far as individuals and small-business are concerned. If we use Alex's 3 TB's of data as an example, here is what it would cost using RackSpace's rates:
3,072 GB X 0.15 USD per month for storage plus $3 USD per month for the backup service. That comes to $5,566 USD/year. And what are you paying BackBlaze? About $50/year.
Should BackBlaze deliver what they promise? Well, sure. Just like Craigslist wedding photographers should always deliver what they promise and like those internet camera shops from Brooklyn should always sell you that great camera for half-market price like they promise.
Backblaze should NOT be your safety net. It should be the pillows on the floor, 50ft below that will prevent you from dying if the safety net and the backup safety net fail. You should expect broken bones.
Organize your data so that it logically follows the actual needs for backup and you'll be able to sleep a lot easier.
For instance I'm not as concerned about the data for clients whose images I have already processed and uploaded to Zenfolio as I would be about the data for a client I shot yesterday.
I divide my data in these zones:
1. OS/Applications <--- these can be reinstalled, I don't give a crap about them
2. Business data <--- this is critical, scanned contracts, graphics I create, promotions etc.
3. Data for clients whose images are unprocessed <--- this is critical
4. Data for clients whose contracts aren't fulfilled but whose images are processed <--- less critical than the above, images are at Zenfolio already.
5. Archive data, for clients with completed contracts.
I physically partition that data into 4 zones:
Zone A: 1
Zone B: 2,3
Zone C: 4
Zone D: 5
Zone A is only one HDD as are Zones B and C, Zone D is more than one HDD
Zone A is the only one that I ONLY backup on backblaze. I don't really give a crap about it.
Zone B is syncd to a passport drive I carry with me in my eurotrash bag, it's also syncd to a 3 disk backup setup that provides offsite/car/location backup for the data
Zone C and Zone D are backed up to a 2 disk backup setup that provides offiste/location backup
When client images go logically from 3 to 4, I physically move their folder to the appropriate zone drive, freeing up space for new fresh images.
If you operated in a similar way you would NOT have to be freaking out about a >month long backblaze backup.
I would simply enable backup only for my ZONE A HDD, once that's done I'd open up the other zones. If while the other zones are still not fully backed up I shot a new session I'd again disable backing up the other zones (data is retained for up to 30 days I believe) for the day... and once the new session is backblazed I'd re-enable the other zones.
Works well, give it a try.
But yeah build your safety nets over the floor pillows. Sync software, internal HDDs, Internal HDD -> ESATA adapter is what I use.
A superb post. Should be required reading for those who want the perfect backup solution.
One question. Maybe a bit touchy. What happens to everyones data after the owners of that data dies? Will the billions of images and data all end up in a landfill on hard drives? Let's face it.....nobody cares about our data like we do. Once a person dies and Backblaze doesn't get paid then all that nice backed up data is gone forever.
Since Alex said he would post my reply to his email regardless, here it is for completeness:
===
Hi Alex,
I'm glad that you have multiple redundant hard drives - and appreciate that it's not enough protection.
I understand that you checked that reinstalling wouldn't lose the ability to reconnect your data, and it should not have.
I appreciate you providing options to make it right.
=> 1. Recover my data
This would be the first thing I would have had us do if it were possible.
=> 2. Overnight me a 3TB drive to seed the backup.
We do not have the code written to be able seed a backup. Short of you sending us your actual computer with all the drives, this isn't yet possible.
=> 3. Vastly improve my upload rate (I currently only manage 3Mbits upload to BB whereas I can get 13 Mbits up to Amazon S3) - This wouldn't totally solve the problem but it would ease my pain.
Again, I wish I could do this, but it's not in Backblaze's control. We do not limit your bandwidth at all. If you have a faster connection to Amazon S3, it may be because the networks between their datacenter and you is better than the networks between you and us - but our system itself allows you to backup at nearly 1,000 Mbps.
However...what I can do:
1. Have you simply backup as normal.
2. FedEx you a 3 TB hard drive at our expense. Not to seed, but to simply make another copy and store it offsite somewhere.
3. Refund your money so you can pick another service. You said you have used Backblaze for 2 years, during which we diligently backed up all your data and kept it safe. If you wish, I will even refund your entire 2 years worth of service.
Let me know if one of those works for you.
Gleb Budman
Co-Founder and CEO
Backblaze (www.Backblaze.com)
Backup, before you wish you had.
Sorry for the delayed reply everyone, been a busy day. Just replied to Gleb taking up the offer of the drive.
I have to say I do really appreciate the fact that the CEO of the company got involved in this. It would have been pretty easy to have just ignored it all and hoped it went away but Gleb stepped up in the end, took responsibility and tried to make things right. Yes I'm still pretty mad they lost my data but I do appreciate screw up's happen and it's how you deal with them which counts.
Ale, my backup process isn't quite as simple as it may seem. I always live by the rule that at least 2 things should have to fail before I loose data. In this case the offsite part of my backup failed and that left me exposed. In the future I think I'm going to upgrade to 3 things needing to be lost where possible. I'm in the process of reevaluating and seeding some new backup locations I'll post a full post mortem once I'm got everything together.
ai3x wrote:
Ale, my backup process isn't quite as simple as it may seem. I always live by the rule that at least 2 things should have to fail before I loose data. In this case the offsite part of my backup failed and that left me exposed. In the future I think I'm going to upgrade to 3 things needing to be lost where possible. I'm in the process of reevaluating and seeding some new backup locations I'll post a full post mortem once I'm got everything together.
Alex
My point is simply that backblaze, or any other cloud-based backup should probably not be "the offsite part of my backup" it should be the option of last resort.
in terms of two things have to fail before you lose data... if one of those two things is the initial data loss that causes you to go to your backup then yeah that's good enough for grandma but should NOT be good enough for a business.
FWIW here's what would have to fail in order for me to lose clients' images:
The evening of the event:
memory cards (as of the next event I'm dual slot for every camera)|My computer's HDD|My Passport that resides in my Eurotrash bag|the backup HDD on my desk|the backup HDD in my car
A day later:
My computer's HDD|My Passport that resides in my Eurotrash bag|The backup HDD on my desk|the backup HDD at my offsite location (day job office)|Backblaze
After the images have been processed and uploaded to Zenfolio
My computer's HDD|My Passport that resides in my Eurotrash bag|The backup HDD on my desk|the backup HDD at my offsite location|Zenfolio|Backblaze|Once I've had another session also the HDD in my car
After I've completed all deliverables for the client
My computer's HDD | The backup HDD on my desk, the backup HDD at my offsite location | Zenfolio (the images only) | Backblaze | Not the HDD in my car
so yeah... you can go ahead and count the points of failure.
Sounds like a lot of work but it's really not. The sync software is all configured to know what to backup when I plug in the drive, it also removes previous backups once I move the stuff to different drives (but only after 30 days of inactivity on the files).. so from a What does Alessandro have to do aside from the obvious "copy the cards" I just plug in the Passport drive and plug the HDD that's on my desk into the esata enclosure. When it tells me it's done I put the passport back in my bag... walk out to the car, put the HDD I just backed up in the car, grab the other HDD from the car and plug it into the esata enclosure.
HTH
Alessandro
P.S. My day job is in development and project management in I.T. I've seen everything fail. I've seen a PC and two of it's backups fail. I've seen a PC fail and the backups weren't good because nobody ever bothered to spot check them.
One time I had my Palm Pilot stop working. Now let me point out that I could literally NOT FUNCTION without the data on that thing. it had contacts, appointments, tasks, procedures, crap even my favorite recipes! .
Tried everything I could but nothing. No biggie I thought, I have my data on my computer.
Powered the computer up. Then I did the stupidest thing anyone could ever do (even if they don't have an I.T. background) - I mindlessly plugged the palm into the computer.
Walked away to get coffee and heard the sync sound.
Instead of jumpiing for the computer and ripping the usb cord out I figured... excellent it's getting my data back!
and the palm proceeded to WIPE the data off my computer. I froze in horror.
Thankfully I always synced my palm with my work computer as well, so I'd just get my data in the morning. Went to sleep.
Woke up, went to work thinking "step 1. Order new palm" ... powered up the computer ... boot screen... tic tic tic.... tic tic tic. The IT peeps here know exactly what that TIC TIC TIC sound was. My computer's hard drive had given up the ghost.
F*$K MY LIFE!!!!
Our office computers were not backed up. The network drives were, which is why they mandated we store anything of any value on the network drives.. but there wasn't a way to get palm desktop to store data there... besides... my data was on the palm, home and office... who needed another backup?!?!
Which leads us to the answer to the question "how often should you go visit your mother" and the answer is obviously "as often as possible!"
Two or three days prior I'd gone to my mom's for coffee... and of course she pestered me 'cause she was having a problem with her palm. So I'd tried to get her palm synced... it was the same Zire71 as I had... and at one point I mistakenly connected my palm to my mom's computer. It prompted me if I wanted to create an account for user ADiSciascio... I was too busy talking to mom to think twice, so I had let it.
So yeah... ALL MY DATA .. well except whatever I didn't have from the previous two days was miraculously on my mom's laptop.
I HAD MY LIFE BACK!!!!!
Yeah that was before I set up a backup system that would make the Pentagon go "WTF, dude the russians really aren't coming!"
Ale, I don't think you're thinking about this in quite the same way as me. When I say two failures I mean two events not two disks dying.
Take your example for no1, evening of the event. Yes in hard drive failure mode that would take a lot of failures. Now think about it like this though, what happens if you get broken into over night? They take your computer, your camera bag and at the same time notice the keys to your car and swipe that as well. Suddenly one failure (being robbed) has lost all the photos.
Backblaze and other online backups offer a very good solution which definitely shouldn't be though of as a backup of last resort. They offer a way to get photos offsite within hours of a wedding to a location which is completely separate from yours and as such not linked to the same failure options.
Like many of us, I work from my home office and this is my day job. I don't have an office to leave another drive in and my folks live about 4 hours away. Sure I can leave disks with friends but they're going to think I'm taking the piss if I'm round everyday wanting to swap disks. Plus I'm human and fallible, I'd never keep it up.
glebbudman wrote:
Since Alex said he would post my reply to his email regardless, here it is for completeness:
===
Hi Alex,
I'm glad that you have multiple redundant hard drives - and appreciate that it's not enough protection.
I understand that you checked that reinstalling wouldn't lose the ability to reconnect your data, and it should not have.
I appreciate you providing options to make it right.
=> 1. Recover my data
This would be the first thing I would have had us do if it were possible.
=> 2. Overnight me a 3TB drive to seed the backup.
We do not have the code written to be able seed a backup. Short of you sending us your actual computer with all the drives, this isn't yet possible.
=> 3. Vastly improve my upload rate (I currently only manage 3Mbits upload to BB whereas I can get 13 Mbits up to Amazon S3) - This wouldn't totally solve the problem but it would ease my pain.
Again, I wish I could do this, but it's not in Backblaze's control. We do not limit your bandwidth at all. If you have a faster connection to Amazon S3, it may be because the networks between their datacenter and you is better than the networks between you and us - but our system itself allows you to backup at nearly 1,000 Mbps.
However...what I can do:
1. Have you simply backup as normal.
2. FedEx you a 3 TB hard drive at our expense. Not to seed, but to simply make another copy and store it offsite somewhere.
3. Refund your money so you can pick another service. You said you have used Backblaze for 2 years, during which we diligently backed up all your data and kept it safe. If you wish, I will even refund your entire 2 years worth of service.
Let me know if one of those works for you.
Gleb Budman
Co-Founder and CEO
Backblaze (www.Backblaze.com)
Backup, before you wish you had....Show more →
Superb quality service from Backblaze on this folks. Glen Budman stepped up to the plate big time here. I salute you and Backblaze. Well done.
Though in practical terms thieves breaking into my home and stealing all that would definitely end up either getting caught by me and escaping, or killing me... at which point let's just say that the safety of the data is somewhat secondary. It's not like I go shoot a wedding, come home, copy the data and then go out to party.
And no I don't put the cards in my camera bag... I just can't imagine a thief coming into my home and searching out SD cards.
That said I do have a $0.50 per client solution to that and I will put it into action starting with my next event. I will take one of the sets of cards, put them into an envelope and mail it to myself at the office the same evening.
Take that thieves! :P
As to the taking drives to friends... if you're friends with another photog you could trade "drive holding" services. Or ask a neighbor ... you seem like a social enough dude
ai3x wrote:
Ale, I don't think you're thinking about this in quite the same way as me. When I say two failures I mean two events not two disks dying.
Take your example for no1, evening of the event. Yes in hard drive failure mode that would take a lot of failures. Now think about it like this though, what happens if you get broken into over night? They take your computer, your camera bag and at the same time notice the keys to your car and swipe that as well. Suddenly one failure (being robbed) has lost all the photos.
Backblaze and other online backups offer a very good solution which definitely shouldn't be though of as a backup of last resort. They offer a way to get photos offsite within hours of a wedding to a location which is completely separate from yours and as such not linked to the same failure options.
Like many of us, I work from my home office and this is my day job. I don't have an office to leave another drive in and my folks live about 4 hours away. Sure I can leave disks with friends but they're going to think I'm taking the piss if I'm round everyday wanting to swap disks. Plus I'm human and fallible, I'd never keep it up. ...Show more →
Tom K. wrote:
Superb quality service from Backblaze on this folks. Glen Budman stepped up to the plate big time here. I salute you and Backblaze. Well done.
This is stepping up to the plate big time? I understand that a drive costs some money, but really? Hey we lost your data, here is $100-$200 drive or a refund?? That is "well done"??
Maybe being a software dev who is seriously lacking sleep I am a bit jaded (near product launch + shipping to a tradeshow tomorrow), but there is no way that response is "well done"
As he says "backup, before you wish you had", yes, somewhere else. I am not saying any other company would respond better, but this sort of response is why I do all my own backups.
SloPhoto wrote:
This is stepping up to the plate big time? I understand that a drive costs some money, but really? Hey we lost your data, here is $100-$200 drive or a refund?? That is "well done"??
As he says "backup, before you wish you had", yes, somewhere else.
Maybe being a software dev who is seriously lacking sleep (near product launch + shipping to a tradeshow tomorrow), but there is no way that response is "well done"
We disagree SloPhoto. Backblaze is a highly respected company. They deserve that respect because they earned it by working very, very hard for their customers.
?? That is "well done"??